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Tuesday Open Thread

Here's an open thread for today since I'll be running around and TChris is still, lucky guy, in Europe.

  • Congrats to Peter Daou who is leaving Salon and the Daou Report to work his magic for Hillary, who is very wise to have selected him. Back in 2004, he did a great job doing outreach and managing the online rapid response for the Kerry-Edwards campaign.
  • Noah at Defense Tech: The best source of Pentagon intel may be the tv.

Update: Squeaky's Sightings

It's amazing to think that just days after Congress blocked an increase in the minimum wage, that they would be so crass and tone-deaf as to consider a pay increase of their own. what follows is Feingold's diary on blocking the house pay raise.

Note: Squeaky is a long-time and much valued commenter on TalkLeft.

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  • Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 10:03:33 AM EST
    Stephan Cohen argues in a piece in The Nation that from Washington's perspective the cold war never ended. The possible consequences are not reassuring.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Joseph Hughes on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 10:52:52 AM EST
    "An Inconvenient Truth" and the power of one

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by profmarcus on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 11:31:22 AM EST
    i'm sure peter will add great value to hillary's efforts, but she is very far from my idea of a principled democratic candidate... in fact, she's rather far from my idea of a principled democrat, period... imho, peter's considerable talents could be better used elsewhere... he ain't gonna improve her relationship with THIS netroot... [TL: Please don't repeat your link in the body of your comment, it's already embedded in your name. ]

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:09:24 PM EST
    Hey Jeralyn, Nice panel discussion yesterday, very interesting. Good show. Also, isn't today TUESDAY? You know you're working hard when the days of the week start blurring into each other. Always appreciate the site, keep it up.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by roy on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:12:02 PM EST
    I guess if you're progressive enough, you progress to the future. Over at Little Green Footballs, it's still last Thursday.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:18:19 PM EST
    Roy, Witty, my boy. I likes.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:20:47 PM EST
    Thanks, I fixed the date and the broken links, which were an aol glitch, not due to Squeaky.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:23:34 PM EST
    3:15 in the afternoon, sometime in the Jurassic Period.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:25:21 PM EST
    Above, the fixed time at lgf.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 12:26:30 PM EST
    Conservate Pat Buchanan is unhappy with Bush foreign policy
    : Bush and his gang of right-wing opportunists are having the effect of making even a nut-case like Buchanan seem reasonable.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 02:31:23 PM EST
    Buchanan is not a recent convert but a long disenter on Bush's foreign policy. He was against the Iraq war in favor of Bush I's isolationism. Also Al Gore's movie is a enviro hogwash. Global Warming is a theory and maybe it's true but Al Gores over the top sensatialism is ridiculous. Does anyone really think NYC will be under water in 50 years? Come on. If you think about it we conservatives should actually hope for this. It would put New York state back into the red column when all the liberals are forced to move to Philedelphia or Boston. Assuming they're not underwater too. Here's to Al Gore being right about something. Sitting pretty in Indiana.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimcee on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 05:33:21 PM EST
    Slado, I don't want NYC to be flooded because that would drive all those Lefties upstate! Heavens to Betsy thats just crazy talk!

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 07:36:49 PM EST
    Jlvngstn - Did you get to LV???

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Sailor on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 08:05:20 PM EST
    Al Gore's movie is a enviro hogwash.
    Please name one peer reveiwed paper that supports your point.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 07:11:15 AM EST
    That's right jimcee...if and when the floods arrive I'm coming for you to spread my philosophy of peace loving freedom to the upstate regions! Oh the humanity...

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:21:17 AM EST
    Sailor This link's for you. Pop a top. Enjoy reading some reason instead of propaganda.
    The June 27, 2006 Associated Press (AP) article titled "Scientists OK Gore's Movie for Accuracy" by Seth Borenstein raises some serious questions about AP's bias and methodology In the interest of full disclosure, the AP should release the names of the "more than 100 top climate researchers" they attempted to contact to review "An Inconvenient Truth." AP should also name all 19 scientists who gave Gore "five stars for accuracy." AP claims 19 scientists viewed Gore's movie, but it only quotes five of them in its article. AP should also release the names of the so-called scientific "skeptics" they claim to have contacted. Here is a sampling of the views of some of the scientific critics of Gore: Professor Bob Carter, of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University in Australia, on Gore's film: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention." "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science." - Bob Carter as quoted in the Canadian Free Press, June 12, 2006
    Oh, peer review, research, etc??? I mean you're big on that, right?
    "...A study in the journal Science by the social scientist Nancy Oreskes claimed that a search of the ISI Web of Knowledge Database for the years 1993 to 2003 under the key words "global climate change" produced 928 articles all of whose abstracts supported what she referred to as the consensus view. A British social scientist, Benny Peiser, checked her procedure and found that only 913 of the 928 articles had abstracts at all, and that only 13 of the remaining 913 explicitly endorsed the so-called consensus view. Several actually opposed it."- Lindzen wrote in an op-ed in the June 26, 2006 Wall Street Journal.
    And the capper:
    Richard S. Lindzen, the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at MIT, wrote: "A general characteristic of Mr. Gore's approach is to assiduously ignore the fact that the earth and its climate are dynamic; they are always changing even without any external forcing. To treat all change as something to fear is bad enough; to do so in order to exploit that fear is much worse." - Lindzen wrote in an op-ed in the June 26, 2006 Wall Street Journal


    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:53:47 AM EST
    Here are the guys that fund Professor Bob Carter's 'research' link Regarding Lindzen
    Capital keeps its nose to the wind. The people who run the world's oil and coal companies know that the march of science, and of political action, may be slowed by disinformation...... For the most part the industry has relied on a small band of skeptics--Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, Dr. Pat Michaels, Dr. Robert Balling, Dr. Sherwood Idso, and Dr. S. Fred Singer, among others--who have proven extraordinarily adept at draining the issue of all sense of crisis.
    link Ride that Hummer, ppj. You and Arnie can bring em on.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:57:14 AM EST
    Such enlightenment, but some scientists say the strangest things. Over 600 doctoral scientists from around the world have now signed a statement publicly expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution.


    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:59:42 AM EST
    Kinda got there before me Squeaky.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:17:55 AM EST
    Frank Luntz, GOP pollster and architect of the Republican message strategy on global warming, said last night in a documentary on CBC that he has changed his position on global warming, and now accepts the scientific evidence. LINK

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:23:56 AM EST
    this debunks PPJ's sources An embarrassment to Australian science

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:30:19 AM EST
    The applicable quote from the link above regarding ppj "...may be slowed by disinformation..." He is on a mission.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:45:38 AM EST
    oscar - I assume they also believe in man caused global warming. squeaky - Who you think is funding the "pro" side? Read "State of Fear."
    But as Alston Chase put it, "when the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power."


    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:52:04 AM EST
    Here's a debunking of the AP article that PPJ linked to here:
    Maybe he(Sen Inhofe) could tell us the names of the scores of critics. Inhofe only has four names and only two of those (Spencer and Lindzen) could be termed "top climate researchers".


    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:59:04 AM EST
    By that renowned climatologist Michael Crichton. PPJ, your big, glaring lie of neglect (that you seem to think no one see's), is that the side you're stumping for has nothing to do with "political advocacy."

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:01:37 AM EST
    I think Hiram Evans did some early ground-breaking research on climate change too. Maybe Jim'll link us to it.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:17:53 AM EST
    Yes, ppj, Michael Crichton like you writes fiction. He sticks to fiction about science while your fiction program is much larger. Crichton, also like you, is a big time Bushlicker.
    Who you think is funding the "pro" side?
    for starters from (same link as above):
    the combined yearly expenditures on global warming of the five major environmental groups that focus on climate issues--about $2.1 million, according to officials of the Environmental Defense Fund, the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Sierra Club, the Union of Concerned Scientists, and the World Wildlife Fund.
    link All commie groups, or islamofascists, from your point of view, ppj, right? While big oil is only putting their $$ to get to the truth, since they have no stake whatsoever in environmental issues, right? Profits be damned is their new motto. Sounds like Crichton can be usefull here as a full time fiction writer.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:34:02 AM EST
    Squeaky Even the head of Shell oil believes in it. PPJ as usual is not interested in the truth but in keeping his job as head propagandist here at TL

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:40:45 AM EST
    I've collected a list of climate change position papers put out by the major governmental scientific institutes of the world that deal with the atmosphere, ocean, and climate. All of these organizations agree that significant human-caused climate change is occurring: United Nations IPCC American Meteorological Society NOAA U.S. National Academy of Sciences NASA EPA American Geophysical Union National Center for Atmospheric Research Royal Society of the United Kingdom Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society Science Council of Japan, Russian Academy of Science, Brazilian Academy of Sciences, Royal Society of Canada, Chinese Academy of Sciences, French Academy of Sciences, German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina, Indian National Science Academy, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Italy), Royal Society (UK) Australian Academy of Sciences, Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts, Brazilian Academy of Sciences, Royal Society of Canada, Caribbean Academy of Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, French Academy of Sciences, German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina, Indian National Science Academy, Indonesian Academy of Sciences, Royal Irish Academy, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Italy), Academy of Sciences Malaysia, Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, and Royal Society (UK)
    LINK If you go to this link, the links to all the position papers are available.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 03:17:50 PM EST
    PPJ-Your friend Curt Weldon knows where Saddam's WMD's are. He is looking for a few good people to help him on a dig. The combination of your military experience and your expert gardening abilities make you almost the perfect one to help out. Think of what this would do for your rhetoric. In one fell swoop you can silence those who, doubting your naval avaition credentials, call you chicken hawk, and put to rest all those who call you a fool still believing that the WMD's are somewhere to be found in Iraq. Give the guy a call. He could really use a friend like you. link

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 07:33:00 AM EST
    et al - You mean you object to documentary dramas??? I mean much of what he writes is based on fact.. and the rest is just logical projections that we know is the truth... How's the hypocrite pie tasting today??

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 07:39:08 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - I gave up on the debunk in Deltoid when I read:
    Actually they affirmed the existence of the Little Ice Age, but not of a global (as opposed to regional) Medieval Warm Period, and that this was consistent with Mann's work. From the press release
    So we haved a regional, like the northern hemosphere, ice age, but the rest of the world isn't included? hahahahahahahahaha As Al like's to say, "I call bs."