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Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Proposals

As expected, both Senate proposals for a timed exit plan from Iraq were defeated.

The votes, 87 to 13 on one measure and 60 to 39 on the second, reflected not only deep divisions between Republicans and Democrats but within the Democratic ranks as well.

Kerry's bill was the first one voted on. It would have required all troops to be out of Iraq by July 1, 2007.

The second, more generally worded measure was also intended to scale down the American commitment in Iraq. It declared that it was "the sense of the Senate" that redeployment of United States troops from Iraq begin by the end of this year.

Here are the 13 Senators who voted for Kerry's proposal.

Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-HI)
Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA), co-sponsor
Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA)
Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
Sen. James Jeffords (I-VT)
Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA)
Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), co-sponsor
Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ)
Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)

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  • Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:04:10 AM EST
    I caught Kerry giving a speech on the floor about the bill on CSPAN last night. He made a great point...how come we can train a US Marine for deployment in about 6 months, but we can't train Iraqis for deployment in 2 years? Bottom line, nobody in power wants to leave...too much money being made at zero cost to them.

    And add this. "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" -- Samuel Adams hat tip. Roxtar.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#3)
    by oldtree on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:25:47 AM EST
    seems like there are 13 senators that might be worth re electing, and 87 that need to be charged with war crimes. what the hell do we have elections for if they deny the wishes of the populace?

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#4)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:31:42 AM EST
    what the hell do we have elections for if they deny the wishes of the populace?
    to delude the populace, so they will remain compliant.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#5)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:47:27 AM EST
    "The trouble with iraq is what keeps happening there. we haven't rebuilt the place -- in fact, it keeps getting worse in terms of basic services. you have to admit, leaving a place worse off than saddam hussein kept it is not a bragging point." - Molly Ivins

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#6)
    by Slado on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:10:06 AM EST
    Molly Invins gets her facts from liberal fantasy world. The Senate rejected these proposals, especially Kerry's, because they are ridiculous and unproductive. Next?

    Feinstein has to go. She has voted too many times against Californian's wishes. Thank goodness for Boxer. We are going to leave, couldn't it be sooner rather than later?

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:20:41 AM EST
    It's ridiculous to save lives? It's unproductive to get the hell out of that mess? I wasn't a big fan of Kerry's bill because I don't think it went far enough. It leaves too many loopholes for troops to remain indefinitely. But at least it would put the gears in motion to get the majority of our men and women in uniform out of harms way, and improve Iraqi lives by getting the occupiers that fuel terrorism outta Dodge. But like I always say...it ain't their kids, what do they care? Too many here equate withdrawal with defeat, when in fact there is no victory to be had.

    This proposal was doomed from the beginning since we have to declare victory before we leave and in order to do that we have to define victory. No one can do that, so the slow bleed will continue. Next up is 3,000 dead then 5,000 then 10,000 and 50,000. There just unimportant numbers, though. The really important numbers can be found here.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:06:59 PM EST
    Praise the lord, buy more ammunition, and accept the kickback from the ammunition manufacturer's lobby. It's the American way.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:13:26 PM EST
    Even Hillary must be on the take since she supports the current "just keep dyin' and killin'" strategy....if it wasn't for Kerry, Murtha, Feingold, and very few others, would anybody be talking about doing right by our troops and the Iraqi people?

    Here's the top 10 war profiteers of 2004: Aegis Defence Services BearingPoint, Inc. Bechtel BKSH and Associates CACI International and Titan Corp. Custer Battles Halliburton Lockheed Martin Loral Satellite Qualcomm It would be an interesting excercise to see how much $$ they contributed to the 87 senators.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#13)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:20:52 PM EST
    lets remember how Dems have usually seen the ME
    The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on 23 January 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union--the Cold War adversary of the United States--from seeking hegemony in the Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil," Carter proclaimed:
    Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.blockquote> emphasis mine link

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:21:42 PM EST
    3,000 dead then 5,000 then 10,000 and 50,000. Why do people need to exagerate to make their point? Kdog, of course its not ridiculous to save lives but it is ridiculous to retreat when you've engaged in a conflict and an entire nations future hangs in the balance. At the risk of repeating myself we started this fight lets finish it. The only government that will tell us to leave is the Iraqi one and they still want us there. In all seriousness do "most" democrats really want to leave or are they just using this as a campaign issue? They can't even vote for their own resolution as a party. The more they paint themselves as the party of retreat the more they are turning 2006 into 2004 all over again. In the words of the great John Kerry..."I actually voted for the 87billion dollars before I voted against it".

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#15)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:35:21 PM EST
    "I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
    Crazy Fantasy World indeed.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#16)
    by Andreas on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:47:32 PM EST
    Here is the long list of Democratic Senators who voted against Kerry Amdt. No. 4442: Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Byrd (D-WV) Cantwell (D-WA) Carper (D-DE) Clinton (D-NY) Conrad (D-ND) Dayton (D-MN) Dodd (D-CT) Dorgan (D-ND) Feinstein (D-CA) Johnson (D-SD) Kohl (D-WI) Landrieu (D-LA) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Obama (D-IL) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Salazar (D-CO) Sarbanes (D-MD) Schumer (D-NY) Stabenow (D-MI)

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:55:21 PM EST
    I lost faith in the Dems long ago Slado...I don't know what they think. They are useless as far as I'm concerned...too concerned with re-election, not concerned enough with the country.
    The only government that will tell us to leave is the Iraqi one and they still want us there
    From Kerry's speech...the Iraqi PM's own security adviser says that US troops are making it more difficult to stabilize/secure the country.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:57:21 PM EST
    Molly Invins gets her facts from liberal fantasy world.
    Any facts to back that up with? Nope, didn't think so.
    Why do people need to exagerate to make their point?
    It wasn't an exaggeration, some of us have seen this movie before and it went to 55,000 before ending.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:23:10 PM EST
    Slado, Doing more of the same that got us into this mess is no answer either. We cannot occupy the nation forever, but that is all I can see for a LONG time. Unless we want to occupy the entire region. But, in all honesty, I don't think we will EVER leave, that this was the plan all along. By justifying our presence with our own created mess, we argue in a circle. Until I hear something different from anyone, I can only conclude the rational thing to do is set a rational timetable for withdrawl and then WORK LIKE HELL, as WE HAVE NOT SO FAR, on genuinely equipping the Iraqis to fight this battle and provide security. In other words, think about Iraq first and our own pride, disproven paradigms, and INTEREST second. When we do that, maybe some of the maybe we'll start building a smidgen of the confidence the world used to have in us. Although I must admit, the World Cup officiating has made me mad. But Team USA is toast yet again. Go Ghana!

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:40:35 PM EST
    President Bush, just back from Iraq, dismissed calls for a U.S. withdrawal as election-year politics and refused to give a timetable or benchmark for success that would allow troops to come home.
    bush should pull out like his father should have.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimcee on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:44:26 PM EST
    I see one of the supporters of the 'pull out now' crew has accepted huge amounts of campaign dough from defense contractors over the years. John Murtha, the concious of the Dems. Pshaw.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:49:09 PM EST
    jimcee has a point. The Rove smear campaign against Murtha is revving up to full throttle.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:07:14 PM EST
    Murtha, however, is voting AGAINST the defense industry's interest in this fairly, um, major instance. Curious to see what his contributions have looked like recently.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:28:18 PM EST
    et al - Can anyone tell me a war that was won by the use of a public time for withdrawal? Bluntly speaking, anyone who talks of such should be required to wear a T shirt saying, "Hi. I am dumb." Sailor - Proof. Repeat after me. "Molly Ivins." kdog quotes:
    how come we can train a US Marine for deployment in about 6 months, but we can't train Iraqis for deployment in 2 years?
    Okay for starters: 1. There is this language problem. Which means that you first have to train the officer corp and then use them in training the enlisted. 2. There is a culture problem related to understanding and accepting tactics and manuevers. Saddam's army featured a very rigid and centralized comand and control structure. This flowed all the way down to the company and squad level. You have to wash that away before you can teach decentralized type tactics. 3. There is an education problem. The education level required for the modern fighting man or woman to be successful is higher than what the Iraqi soldiers bring. Not unsolveable, but time consuming. There are others, but no need to keep restating what should be obvious, even to Senator Heinz-Kerry.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:39:16 PM EST
    Can anyone tell me a war that was won by the use of a public time for withdrawal?
    And what war are we talking about winning here ppj? The Iraq war? Is that a war against the sovereign nation Iraq? Yes, it does look more and more like that every day, although I seem to remember that the Iraq war was not a war against Iraq. things change, I guess.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:25:39 PM EST
    Jim, This isn't a "war" in any sense of the word to which you're asking for comparisons. We are long past the point of any U.S. military "solution" to a problem we initiated. This is a massive police action, which soldiers are NOT trained to carry out. Hence the military's inability to "finish" or "win" anything of the sort. We ARE, in large measure, the problem. And have been for some time. When we disbanded the Iraqi army early on it was a death blow to native security. As willfully stupid and deadly a mistake as you could possibly make in this type of conflict. Remind me again: how much expert, rational, researched post-war planning was IGNORED in the quick and delusional releasing of the bull into the china shop? The military's plan to defeat Saddam's army worked brilliantly and American troops have distinguished themselves on the battlefield. However, the review [conducted by Knight Ridder] found that the president and many of his advisers ignored repeated warnings that rebuilding Iraq would be harder than ousting Saddam and tossed out years of planning about how to rebuild Iraq...

    Read an analysis that explains how Iraq may be the focal point of a Republican October surprise...here: www.thoughttheater.com

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 04:17:47 PM EST
    Sailor - Proof. Repeat after me. "Molly Ivins."
    So no facts, no links, just an implied insult. repeat after me, if you can't produce facts to support your viewpoint, then STFU. and next time, try to stay on topic, it ain't about Ivins, it's about how rethugs don't have a plan for 'winning' and even bush refuses to say what 'winning' is. 'stay the course' is a slogan, not a plan. I still can't understand why these rethugs won't volunteer to go fight in a war they support.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 04:22:02 PM EST
    I still can't understand why these rethugs won't volunteer to go fight in a war they support.
    Good news for them, they just increased the recruitment age to 42. More opportunity to not put their actions where their mouths are. Of course there is no problem with recruitment!

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 07:32:31 PM EST
    "Why would the Iranian hostages be released right after Reagan took office?" And why did Reagan start selling arms to our "enemies" the Iranians right after he took office? That ole Gipper never took any crap from those guys, no sir! The reptiles dont just talk about making slimy deals behind the backs of the American people, they go out and do it.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 07:43:02 PM EST
    Those Dems are all talk 'n no walk!

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 07:54:12 PM EST
    When those missles showed up with that perfumed, lip stick smeared, Thank You card from Reagan, those Iranians just started shakin' in their boots, lemme tell ya.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 08:23:00 PM EST
    Sailor - Repeat after me. Molly Ivins. SD - All branches have met their YTD objectives. I posted that two days ago. Why are you trying to hint otherwise??

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:13:37 PM EST
    Molly Ivins. Living proof that as long as there's one person willing to speak the truth to the Machievellian, lying sacks of sh*t, theres hope. Of course some people prefer the Jacksonian Wizard Hiram Evans.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#36)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 03:34:38 AM EST
    SD - All branches have met their YTD objectives. I posted that two days ago. Why are you trying to hint otherwise??
    DUH! - because both You and the Pentegon lie all the time.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:03:39 AM EST
    SD - So your comment was wrong. Okay. No surprise there. Jondee writes:
    Of course some people prefer the Jacksonian Wizard Hiram Evans.
    I invite all interested parties to read this link and see for themselves that Jondee's claim is a lie.
    As Hiram W. Evans, the surprisingly articulate Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, wrote in 1926, the old stock American of his time had become "a stranger in large parts of the land his fathers gave him. Moreover, he is a most unwelcome stranger, one much spit upon, and one to whom even the right to have his own opinions and to work for his own interests is now denied with jeers and revilings. 'We must Americanize the Americans,' a distinguished immigrant said recently."
    Now, what did the author write about this comment by the KKK's headman? Did he agree? Did he excuse? Let us see:
    What came next surprised almost everyone. The tables turned, and Evans' Americans "americanized" the immigrants rather than the other way around. In what is still a largely unheralded triumph of the melting pot, Northern immigrants gradually assimilated the values of Jacksonian individualism. Each generation of new Americans was less "social" and more individualistic than the preceding one.
    So again we have a Jondee lie exposed.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:26:29 AM EST
    SD - So your comment was wrong. Okay.
    I dont think so. You tell me why they increased the recruitment age to 42.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#39)
    by Andreas on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:35:17 AM EST
    Only one conclusion can be drawn: the war in Iraq will not be ended through legislative action, which the Democrats, in any case, will not seriously pursue. Both of the official bourgeois parties, the Democrats no less than the Republicans, are committed to an open-ended American military occupation of the oil-rich country. ... The debates in both houses of Congress were sought by the Republicans, not the Democrats, and they reflect a White House decision, as spelled out Thursday in the New York Times, to make the Iraq war a central issue in the fall election campaign. The purpose, of course, is not to have a genuine national debate about the Iraq war. Instead, the White House seeks to delegitimize opposition to the war and equate it with treasonous capitulation to the terrorists. There is a profound social and political logic behind this brazen defiance of popular sentiment. It expresses the outlook of a narrow financial oligarchy that controls both political parties and is entrenching itself ever more firmly atop American society. It has no intention of allowing the views of the people or what it considers democratic shibboleths, such as congressional votes or elections, to stand in the way of its single-minded pursuit of ever-greater personal wealth. The systematic closing off of every institutional avenue for the expression of popular sentiments and interests shows that the protracted decay of American democracy, made inevitable by the staggering concentration of wealth at the very top of society, is openly assuming the forms of oligarchic rule.
    US Senate backs indefinite occupation of Iraq By Patrick Martin, 23 June 2006

    oldtree... what the hell do we have elections for if they deny the wishes of the populace? LOL..that's a good question! About 70% of the population think we need to secure the border too... but what is those guys(and in particular those 87 you think are so great) doing about that? Squeaky.... The Rove smear campaign against Murtha is revving up to full throttle LOL...Murtha does a fine job of smearing himself! There are only a handful of Americans (many of them here on TL) that think his 'smearing' of our troops was good! although I seem to remember that the Iraq war was not a war against Iraq. things change, I guess. No..they don't. The Iraq war is now, and always was about fighting terrorism. What say you about the recent disclosure that over 500 WMDs have been found? I'm really anxious to hear all of you that said "Bush lied" apologize. I'm waiting!

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#41)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:40:27 AM EST
    What say you about the recent disclosure that over 500 WMDs have been found?
    source?

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#42)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:42:25 AM EST
    Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Thursday they have no evidence that Iraq produced chemical weapons after the 1991 Gulf War, despite recent reports from media outlets and Republican lawmakers.
    link as usual your stuff is mindless Rethug/neocon BS

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 08:05:03 AM EST
    So again we have a Jondee lie exposed.
    PPJ is back trying to sell his racist 'jacksonian' crap again. Nice revisionist history, ergo we should have a Hiram Evans day, right ppj. Maybe we can exchange it for MLK day. MLK owes his 'assimilation' from fine examples of 'jacksonian' humanism like Evans anyway. He would have been a savage had not the grand wizzard laid the groundwork, all his speeches are just watered down Hiram Evans rehashings. I bet MLK even ate his food with passable table manners. Retire that nonsense ppj. Lewis Caroll is far less fictional and more entertaining than your pal Walter Russell Mead. Didn't we go through this already?

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#44)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 08:44:45 AM EST
    Narius, Now it is not my job to rise up for some other people who may or may not be oppressed. Especially if your country is the oppressor.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#45)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 08:57:57 AM EST
    There are only a handful of Americans (many of them here on TL) that think his 'smearing' of our troops was good! Quotes please. Otherwise you're a lying POS. Oops, hey BB, you've got some spittle there on your chin. Murtha's been in battle. And not from 20,000 feet like BB. BB has never seen the barrel of the enemie's gun. But because he dropped bombs on people during the last triumph, he thinks it entitles him to judge the rest of us.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#46)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 09:02:08 AM EST
    What say you about the recent disclosure that over 500 WMDs have been found? I'd say you are grasping at 25 year old, degraded, useless, unimportant, US SUPPLIED straws that we've known about for years. (yawn) As David Kay replied, I have stronger chemicals under my kitchen sink.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 11:06:51 AM EST
    I have stronger chemicals under my kitchen sink.
    Or at the local Home Depot. Let's invade and occupy Home Depot before they pass the chemicals on to the terr'ists.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 11:11:30 AM EST
    Let's invade and occupy Home Depot before they pass the chemicals on to the terr'ists.
    Careful kdog, you may be next w/o getting the 50g.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 01:42:49 PM EST
    Jackson Quotes: 0, "Suprisingly articulate" Imperial Wizard Quotes: 1.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 01:48:10 PM EST
    Mead is an uber-Elite who wouldnt know what "populism" was if it took physical form and crawled up his intestinal tract. Of course, ppj tried to sell us the idea that Shrub was a salt'a the earth, good-ole-boy too. What horse sh*t.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 02:18:08 PM EST
    Squeaky - Your smear doesn't work. Mead clearly states that the KKK's expected blood letting didn't work, that Evans' "immigrants," who he expected to do his dirty work by creating a separate political and cultural group for the KKK to recruit and rant against, didn't do it. Instead the immigrants were "americanized" and became more individualistic, proving that we have the best system of governmentand culture in the history of man. That you and Jondee won't admit to what is written is sad indeed. But it is all there, for all to see. SD - Read'em and weep.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 02:23:46 PM EST
    Jondee - Since Mead identifies Evans as a KKKer, I find his "surprisingly articulate" comment a put down. Kinda like me saying, "Jondee's surprisingly articulate...." You know, I find your attitude unsurprisingly biased and you refusal to consider new information totally common and leftist. SD - As a prelude to drafting people such as SD. ;-)

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#53)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 02:28:08 PM EST
    And I couldnt care less (in a fair and balanced, unbiased way that is). Jackson Quotes: 0, Klan Quotes: 1.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#54)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 02:31:51 PM EST
    PPJ so why have they increased the age? They already lowered the standards Of course you dont have an answer just the usual mindless snark

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 02:36:19 PM EST
    Shoulda hid out in TANG or Naval Aviation when you had the chance. Some people are smart enough to think ahead.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#56)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 05:55:37 PM EST
    You know, I find your attitude unsurprisingly biased and you refusal to consider new information totally common and leftist.
    Ahh yet another episode of 'all about jim' ... watch how he projects his tactics onto others, only has insults and no facts, and attempts to hijack yet another thread. Sheesh!

    sailor...given those qualities I guess it's only natural that he is a big fan of the current administration.

    Re: Senate Votes Against Dem. Timed Pull-out Propo (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:33:11 PM EST
    Squeaky - Your smear doesn't work. Mead clearly states that the KKK's expected blood letting didn't work, that Evans' "immigrants," who he expected to do his dirty work by creating a separate political and cultural group for the KKK
    Your cherry-picked quote doesn't make your argument. Hardly a smear ppj, I have read the article before and we have discussed it here. As an extra bonus tristero chimes in, He knew him ages ago, before he went looney. Or does it matter? You are the echo chamber, so I thank you for that. The talking points you hand deliver to us here at TL from Wingnuttia are invaluable. You are, yes, spreading propaganda, but on the other hand you give us an invaluable glimpse into the workings of our government especially when it comes to the mechanics of Roves plans. Some nostalgic white english speaking Americans want to cast America in their own image for all time, as if they could. The Mead article packages and sanitizes it all so perfectly. It's just another political billboard on the road to fascism.