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Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS

Don't miss Frontline's The Dark Side about Dick Cheney at 9 pm ET. Here's a thread to discuss it.

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  • Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 05:21:43 PM EST
    Currently I'm watching "Newton's Dark Secrets" on pbs, I watch Cheney's Dark secrets too.....might be an interesting comparison. As I think that VP Cheney looks at himself as a historical figure already.......

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:06:06 PM EST
    This is like Cheney was THE president. It's as though the preznit was off somewhere reading a storybook or something. Too much power in the dark

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:14:17 PM EST
    I think the line that Cheney chose the Pentagon over the CIA is part of a ruse. One thing CheneyCo lurves is shadows and deception. I had forgotten about Cofer Black's tole in this.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:16:27 PM EST
    This next part should illustrate the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Bush control and manipulation behind the scenes in previous admins. The founsation they laid in the 70s-80s for secrecy is what is being perfected today.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:21:19 PM EST
    Shadow logic if there's a 1% chance that cheney will be indicted in the near future, then i'm will ing to hear jayson leopold out.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:37:19 PM EST
    Nice one phi x174. I couldn't agree more.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#7)
    by RF on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:50:43 PM EST
    It appears the CPB\Frontline is hanging Cheney and Rumsfeld's collective asses out to dry... We all know arBusto stands with sneer and the cranky old man, and Powell, Tenet et al are long gone... Whoa dogs, Ponies, this could fry the egg of legacy beyond dry yoke and yellow plastic-

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:55:46 PM EST
    This entire program reads like a RICO indictment...sealed, of course.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#9)
    by Sydnie on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 07:48:33 PM EST
    It was amazing. Sure looks like a bloodless coup to me!

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 08:42:02 PM EST
    It was a great show...too bad we couldn't get it on nationwide tv as a special!! :) If you know of anyone that wants to see it, have them go to pbs.org and find Frontline. You can watch the show on the site and also see if it will be rebroadcast. It certainly did show the Dark Side of both Cheney and Rummy...Hope Fitzpatrick saw it too!! Moesie

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#11)
    by MiddleOfTheRoad on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 09:02:01 PM EST
    This was a great program. I felt I learned more about Tenet than say Cheney or Rumsfeld. The quote that most stuck to me was about how Tenet should have said "Yes Mr President this is all there is" instead of "Slam Dunk". And the one that followed about Condi's incompetence.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 12:12:53 AM EST
    FRONTLINE is a gem. This was no different. So many tight-collar'd white guys laying it out with clairty of almost dismal precision. The Big F*ck Up. As organized and led by the Two Biggest F*ckups. When the moment came to save an already delayed-by-cabinet-infighting operation in Afhghanistan and stop Al Qeada there, prevent, as much as we could, their retreat, maybe even get bin Laden, whom most agree was there and wounded...that we wasted it, blew it, by already focusing too much on misguided and deluded war dreams in Iraq. They were told. Stop AQ in Afghanistan, in no uncertain terms. The problem is not Iraq or Iran. If they were related, it is a side issue compared to the REAL problem -- AL QAEDA IN AFGHANISTAN. And we let them escape. To plow into Iraq. And David Kay laying out how weak the "evidence" was for going THERE. And everyone else laying out how weak it was. And, And, And... Colin Powell. Got lied to and ultimately used, and his company man instincts just got too much of his courage at that point. But to hear Powell's chief of staff talk about how mad HE personally was (the chief of staff), how he was ready to resign, wrote up the letter, after realizing all the WMD stuff was crap and that his boss had been used. But he didn't resign when he should have, like too many people in this. And it's regrets all around. A great piece of current events documentary. Watch it online when it's available, more than worth it.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 12:16:52 AM EST
    I also loved how the Dubya inner circle were SO convinced that many in the CIA were against Bush's re-election, and feared that maybe the CIA were carrying out some clandestine effort to make re-election much harder. It was some real old-school Nixon stuff -- oh wait, that's where Cheney and Rummy first worked together. It all fits.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 05:21:47 AM EST
    Oh, I wish it would be aired on all the networks and at prime time, along with the documentary "Iraq Mission Accomplished" (shown on Free SpeechTV). If Americans would watch both documentaries a few nights in a row, it would change everything. I hope curiosity and sense of civic duty get the better of people and they go to pbs.org and watch the Frontline documentary.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 05:48:03 AM EST
    What I found really cool and the most fascinating was how Cheney and Rumsfeld and Bush played Tenet like a cheap guitar. They knew his incredible need to be part of the inner circle and they twisted him like a pretzel to get the "It is a slam dunk". Cheney and Rumsfeld knew at that moment that they would never have any egg on their faces for WMD, after all the CIA head said it was a slam dunk. What is really ironic is that Cheney was right. If the head of the CIA was that easy to manipulate, the agency was indeed broken.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#16)
    by Slado on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 06:23:53 AM EST
    The special was well done and very informative as all Frontline specials are but entirely one sided. They had a point to make and they made it. I didn't see anyone who didn't disagree witht he Iraq policy given quick soundbites etc... only critics and Ex-CIA officials that have a major beef with the administration. As stated before this is history. We are there now and should finish the job.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#17)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 06:31:04 AM EST
    Why do we listen to anyone that speaks out against any administration, after all they all have axes to grind because they are "ex-employees". So I say, based on Slado's astute observation, from this point forward we completely ignore anyone that is not gainfully employed with the administration as those who have left are obviously just pissed and have an axe to grind and cannot be trusted.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:25:56 AM EST
    but entirely one sided.
    it's kinda hard to have a 'balanced' presentation when one side is so clearly wrong. What facts would you have brought out?

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#19)
    by Rick B on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:32:33 AM EST
    Great show. It clearly establishes that our preemptive invasion was Dick Cheney's ego trip, committed by fraud on top of the 9-11 terrorist event. The main reason that the Bush administration will not get out of Iraq is the fear that such an action will release the government to investigate all the fraud and criminal activity the administration has conduct to make Cheney's ego trip into reality and keep it going.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#20)
    by Rick B on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:34:23 AM EST
    Slade, Didn't you see the interviews with Maloof? He carried teh Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld water very nicely.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#21)
    by Elliott on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 08:30:19 AM EST
    god help us

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 09:54:31 AM EST
    Slado: We've got to finish the job in Iraq. But at this point... what's the job?

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 10:00:12 AM EST
    Slado, The entire point of the film was there WERE NO PEOPLE besides Dick and Rummy's minions, who COULD critique what was known as REALITY. There was NO Iraq/AQ connection, there were NO nukes, it was clear as day that the b.s. was revealed as b.s. -- but it worked and got us into a war. And I beg to differ, FRONTLINE is as balanced a show as exists, it is NOT one-sided, it is an uncomfortable look at power abused. Link me, please, to a film of as informed, astute, and comprehensive a POV. And, remember, those you say were the victims of this one-sidedness DECLINED to tell their side of the story. Why? And why would David Kay agree to appear on such a piece of propaganda? Why would Colin Powell's former chief of staff? Or any of these people? You're grasping. If anything, the film showed EXACTLY how Iraq was a personal fantasy, based in no reality. And the creation of how-small-is-your-cock top level infighting. The problem was AQ in Afghanistan, they were told directly. As one expert said, "Colonel Mustard in the conservatory with the candlestick". They chose to create a SEPARATE problem in Iraq and let AQ and Bin Laden slip away.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#24)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 10:34:14 AM EST
    Disappointingly, unless I missed it (and I could have), I didn't see FL address the issue of the motives of the Iraq invasion. I didn't hear any mention of oil, giant no-bid contracts, other avenues of profit, or even "he tried to kill my dad." Maybe they're saving that aspect for another show. Bush looked like the dolt we all know he is, a marionette. They must have offerred him plenty of bananas for his stupified co-operation. I guess he's happy as long as he can "play" leader.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 10:43:55 AM EST
    desert, It was specifically about Cheney and Rummy bullying and twisting the process that sent us to war in Iraq so quickly and, most importantly, at the expense of going after AQ and bin Laden in Afghanistan. I actually think FL did a show on the contracting of Iraq. But I could be wrong. As I often am.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#26)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 12:41:31 PM EST
    They have some additional material on their website.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#27)
    by Slado on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 01:35:28 PM EST
    I watched 80% of the special because my kid needed a bath during the show so I missed the pro Bush guy. Reading Dadlers post I would agree that since it specifically focused on Cheney and Rumsfeld I can see why some arguments for/against the war were left out. I'm only pointing out that there is a long running battle between the Pentagon and CIA regarding Iraq, War on Terror etc... Most of these ex-CIA officials that were speaking oput, Richard Clarke especially have a beef with the president. That doesn't mean that they are lying or being deciteful they just disagree with the policy and some forcfully so. The mission is to establish a democratic government in Iraq. We're getting there and we'll get there if the democrats don't convince the country to give up now.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 01:48:24 PM EST
    I was looking for it and found it, three times I think after all it was getting near to my bedtimes. But it seems to me that none of yall saw tha real reason that Cheney/Rumsford needed a Congressional Declaration of War. It was stated several times that Cheney/Rumsford and tha neo-con cabal that they had been developing since their original associations under tha disgraced Republican Nixon, that they sincerely felt that tha Executive had been severly emasculated. Now consider this, do yall think that Cheney/Rumsford had any other plan in mind than that of restoring power to tha Executive? Wanna guess what is tha fastest way to restore power to tha Executive, yup tha War Powers Act and considering tha way these neo-cons have manipulated our laws and their continued belief that they are justified in tha manipulation wanna guess why tha Repubs don't want to see an End date for our involvement in Iraq. Because as soon as we pull out, tha War Powers Resolution given to Bush/Cheney/Rumsford lapses. Some might could consider that anyone who would manufacture reasons for war for tha purpose of increasing tha Executive's power at tha loss of Congressional oversight and re-writing tha established Rule of Law by Executive Finding as acts of Treason. I have often wondered why it is that Cheny/Rumsford/Bush have done exactly 180 degrees opposite in actions as regards tha Repub party platform. Perhaps we have had a regime change of our own back to pre-Nixon power politics. One other item, I have heard many times that this country has tha Democrats to blame for Viet-Nam. I first heard about French Indochina (thats what they used to call it) in 1956, as my Dad and his pilot buddies were quaffing martinis at tha Officer's Club in Del Rio, TX. They were all excited at tha prospect of "live practice." President Eisenhower, a Republican actually ordered what became Air America to fly resupply missions in American aircraft/American military pilots/ with French markings to Dien Bien Phu in 1954. It was tha Republicans who got us involved in Viet-Nam. So what does that mean?

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#29)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 09:57:58 AM EST
    Slado, I hadn't realized that democracy in Iraq is solely dependent on the dems not f*ing it up, thanks for that real eye opener. Tell me, how much money have we spent? How much more money are we going to spend? Approximately how much longer will we be there? Tell me, if there is progress, why is only a stretch of 50 miles or so the only safe part of the country? Tell us HOW MUCH MORE of our MONEY will be spent to achieve democracy, because the flowers thrown at our feet never happened. The middle east did not embrace democracy on a widespread basis. AQ is getting stronger and we get from the right "if the dems don't screw this up?" Priceless

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:37:03 PM EST
    The mission is to establish a democratic government in Iraq
    Talk about Mission Impossible. It's hard to establish such things by force. Add to the mix that this is a country made up of 3 distinct ethnic/religous groups that have hundred years old feuds, and an occupying force drawing jihadists from other countries...it becomes the proverbial pipe dream. How much money and blood must be spent before we say enough is enough? Seriously Slado...what is your personal threshold of bodies and dollars before you would support withdrawal? 5k Americans killed and 5 trillion? 10k and 50 trillion? 50k and 500 trillion? I'm curious. We'd be better off just handing the Iraqi govt. a check for 500 billion and saying good luck, Saddam is gone, we are outta here. But then the arms dealers profits go down and no permanent bases are established....silly me, never mind.

    Re: Cheney and the Dark Side: 9pm ET, PBS (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:43:15 PM EST
    The mission is to establish a democratic government in Iraq - I don't know how many of yall have spent any time researching tha Koran and tha Muslim theocracy. Muslims already feel that they live in a social democracy(theocracy) as defined by their Koran. Tha Koran is not structured like tha Jew's Torah or tha Christian's Bible, heck tha Koran doesn't get anywhere near Genesis until mid-book. And its structure, longest passages first on down to phrases last. As to their view of tha Koran, that book defines tha Rules that tha Muslim society lives by. My point to this is if tha Muslims really wanted our form of democracy, don't yall think that someone, in tha Middle East would have done so by now? Personally, I think that this war in Iraq is a sham and a front whereby Darth Cheney can re-incorporate tha Executive to plenipotentiary powers that can be exercised under tha War Powers Act and that they have to keep this as an open-ended war to maintain tha Executive's superiority of position over Congress and yes yu folks too, tha Judiciary. Dang, it's almost tha same script as Darth Sidius taking over tha Republic by involving tha Republic in a war......hmmmm wonder ifn George Lucas is a phrophet?