home

NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Americans' Phone Calls


USA Today reports that the National Security Agency has been collecting billions of domestic home, business and cell phone records on tens of millions of Americans, obtaining the records from phone companies.

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans -- most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

There's more information here:

The NSA collected "call-detail" records. That's telephone industry lingo for the numbers being dialed. Phone customers' names, addresses and other personal information are not being collected as part of this program. The agency, however, has the means to assemble that sort of information, if it so chooses.

The NSA has been doing this since the 9/11 attacks. They won't confirm if your records are among those examined. They say the program is intended to identify terrorists by identifying calling patterns.

As to what the NSA is doing with your records, USA today says no one knows for sure, but it is probably they end up at the Pentagon.

Who was in charge when the program was implemented? Gen. Michael Hayden.

Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated Monday by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic call-tracking program. Hayden declined to comment about the program.

The three major phone companies, AT&T, Verizon and Bell South have contracted with the Government to provide the information.

Another company, Qwest, balked at the legality of it and refused to participate.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services -- primarily long-distance and wireless -- to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

Three cheers for Denver-based Qwest.

< Abramoff White House Logs Published | Justice's OPR Ends Warrantless Spying Inquiry >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#1)
    by phat on Wed May 10, 2006 at 11:21:57 PM EST
    I can't wait for the inevitable apologies on this one. phat

    Did we really expect they weren't doing something of this nature? Questions of legality aside for a moment, what is the harm of collecting this type of data? How can this be abused, particularly if reports are true that identifying information is not being tied to the phone numbers?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Thu May 11, 2006 at 06:44:21 AM EST
    The bastards done gone forgot who they work for. I mean, I don't listen in on my bosses phone calls. The nerve.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Thu May 11, 2006 at 06:55:07 AM EST
    Questions of legality aside for a moment, what is the harm of collecting this type of data?
    Sheeesh!

    I agree with you Sailor. But the fact remains: if they have been keeping track of my phone calls (as it seems they likely have), this morning I don't feel as violated as some might expect. If they had been listening in, that would make this an entirely different story. So honestly: how can this data be abused?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#6)
    by scribe on Thu May 11, 2006 at 07:14:44 AM EST
    While I'm not surprised at the TelCos selling (that's what it's looking like) all this information to the gov't, I'm wondering why the money they've gotten hadn't shown up on their balance sheets somewhere. Moreover, and more importantly, just remember that AT&T and Verizon, selling the information on you, are two of the three big TelCos pushing to end net neutrality and take over the internet. The other is ComCast. Now that they've established the precedent for selling all your calling information to the government, it'll be no time at all until they sell all your internet usage information to the government, too. So, for those wondering why now is the time these f'ks chose to try ending net neutrality, does this help explain? Telcos need money, have information and can get more all the time. Government needs information all the time, has money. Repugs need information to use to keep power, have authority to make government spend money, need money from TelCos. Welcome to dictatorship.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 11, 2006 at 07:32:26 AM EST
    kdog writes:
    I mean, I don't listen in on my bosses phone calls. The nerve.
    Try reading the post. It says that NSA is NOT listening to the conversations. et al - Is the fact that someone called someone private? I don't see how. Telephone records exist and have existed and we all know that they exist and the bills we receive have the information. These bills aren't treated with any special "handling," and are available in the trash cans of probably 200 million Americans. In addittion, the calls are made over public networks in which the use of "numbers" for calling/routing/billing has been around for a hundred years. To suddenly decide that this information is somehow now private is to close the door long after the horse has fled. scribe - A motive check. Were you similarly outraged and made similar protests when the previous administrations was shown to have obtained 1100 or so FBI background check files on members of the opposition party?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#8)
    by scribe on Thu May 11, 2006 at 07:35:47 AM EST
    Well, I see Rover's lackey is up early this morning.

    et al... I wouldn't be too concerned. They can't keep track of 11 Million (+ ?) illegal aliens, I don't see a snowballs chance in hell of them being able to do much with tens of millions of phone records!

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#10)
    by aw on Thu May 11, 2006 at 07:47:21 AM EST
    scribe - A motive check. Were you similarly outraged and made similar protests when the previous administrations was shown to have obtained 1100 or so FBI background check files on members of the opposition party?
    Were you disappointed when your old love interest, Ken Starr, couldn't find any wrongdoing in the Filegate matter?

    The NSA isn't very organized to leave a paper trail and it only becomes a political issue if there is something to gain from it.

    and it only becomes a political issue if there is something to gain from it.
    Senator A seems to be phoning this number far too frequently. Congressman B, Why would he be phoning that part of town? Jeebus it aint rocket science.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 08:29:33 AM EST
    I make a lot of international calls and I am critical of my government. So what is to stop a rogue agent from planting some BS evidence because they didn't like my online rantings? I am a grain of sand on a contintent's beach so it is insignificant, but there are many who are not, who with some help of a plant and the tie in to "many international calls" played on Foxnews every 8 minutes next to the terror threats that may not feel so protected or comforted by this news.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#14)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu May 11, 2006 at 08:34:37 AM EST
    Gee, surely this is the worst they've done, right, Jim? Next they'll reveal that they recorded them all, and you'll try to justify that too. Where, exactly, do you draw the line? Nowhere?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#15)
    by lilybart on Thu May 11, 2006 at 08:51:09 AM EST
    Jimaka....maybe this info is out there in landfills across america, but the point is.....we are a nation of laws not men. If they need a new law to regulate this practice, then they should go to the rubber-stamp congress and get one. What we ask for is oversight so this info is not used against political enemies or any other non-finding-terrorists reason. Laws mean that records are kept of what they are doing and laws give congress (the people) the right to know exactly what the are up to. It really is that simple. Secret programs are secret because what they are doing with this info may not be altogether innocent.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#16)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu May 11, 2006 at 08:52:04 AM EST
    Oh, right, I know: you can totally tell by their actions that this is completely legal and not the tip of the iceberg or anything. Like the way they refused to let the FISA court know about the program. Okay, bad example. Well, surely if it were legal they wouldn't block the OPR investigation. Wait, they did. Well, shucks. I guess we just have to... "trust them." And that never gets old or proven to be a terrible mistake or anything.

    I think the true danger here is thinking that data mining is some golden gun. Wasn't there a story recently about NSA ops giving false positives to the FBI. But while I'm looking, the problem seems to be two-fold for me. 1. Another example of the admin. flouting laws becasue, they're to hard, they chafe, don't look good on them, etc. 2. That from what I know about data mining (not too much) it seems like a b.s. process that results in as many false hits as it does good ones. Seriously does anyone buy the stuff that Amazon recommends for you, I know I don't.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#19)
    by desertswine on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:24:37 AM EST
    "It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.
    This insanity must be costing us billion$. I can think of a multitude of better uses for our dough without even trying. The NSA has gone off the deep end.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:40:20 AM EST
    Justpaul, This site wasn't even AROUND during "Filegate". I don't know who around here said what back then. Nor do you. And though Clinton was the biggest disappointment of my lifetime presidentially, he was up against a TON of money trying to dig up ANY dirt they could on him. In the government and out. Richard Mellon Scaife by himself attempted to purchase the personal destruction of the guy. That aside, as dicey Clinton could be AT TIMES, Bush is completely lacking an iota of credibility in EVERY area. As such, his sh*t stinks infinitely worse. Because it's fresh.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:40:52 AM EST
    I'd like to see a shred of evidence that "so many people here" defended what Clinton did.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:51:39 AM EST
    Dadler - I'd like to say I was disappointed by Clinton, but, unfortunatly, Im jaded enough that I've come to believe that nobody swims for long in that toxic stew without accumulating alot of barnacles and a few predetory habits. It'll stay that way until we have publicly financed elections.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#24)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:52:26 AM EST
    Sorry for the O.T

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:52:36 AM EST
    Tell me again which demos were against the Patriot Act? I forget, I mean I should not because there were a handful but..... If the pres approval ratings were still high, and this country were still in the "9-11 changed everything mindset" I think the same number of dems that voted against PA, would be crying about this. Fortunately, for the rights of every american, Bush is in the sewer and this will get some attention.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 10:03:09 AM EST
    Its that "wid us 'r agin us" paradigm again. You were either wid Clinton, (i.e., defended absolutly everything he ever did), 'r agin 'im. If things aint black and white, they just dont exist in the wingnut universe.

    Sorry for the O.T
    I am being serious, can someone tell me for what it stands?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 10:12:48 AM EST
    So what could conceivably happen if you have, or had, alot of phone contact with someone who - unbeknownst to you - had serious connections to terrorist activity? Do you just pray that you dont have to "disappear" for three or four years until the truth gets ferreted out?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#30)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 10:13:47 AM EST
    Off topic.

    Jondee merci, oh no not another bloody limerick.

    Call your telecomm company and ask for your money back. Why should I pay money to be spied on? Why should I pay to have my 1st and 4th amendment rights violated? Verizon is 800-870-9999; dailykos has phone numbers for the others. Once I get home I'm going to call Vonage and change my service. This is it. I've had it.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#33)
    by Al on Thu May 11, 2006 at 10:58:05 AM EST
    But at least bother to show that he is breaking the law before you get the rope out, and, if you can be bothered to do so, for once, please explain why your concern for civil liberties is so clearly based on who is violating them.
    Because they are a bunch of lying bastards. They occupied an entire country under false pretences. They lied through their teeth to do so, insisting that they had all kinds of evidence of biological weapons labs, centrifuges for enriching uranium, etc. Because Colin Powell went to the UNSC and showed satellite photographs and little tubes filled with white powder and claimed this proved Iraq had all kinds of horrible weapons and had to be stopped. Because he was lying, and he knew it. They all were; Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle, the whole lot of them. Because they can't be trusted to tell you the right time. Because they are a bunch of self-serving, greedy, power-hungry, lying bastards. Got it?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#34)
    by roger on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:06:37 AM EST
    BB has a point. I dont think that the gov't has translated all the Soviet intercepts yet. PPJ- The gov't could find out a lot by knowing who calls my office for advice, or to refer clients. Anyone who calls a criminal defense attorney has to be worried about this. Fewer calls means less business. This affects me, and p*sses me off. BTW- this used to be called a "pen register". It is illegal without a warrant. Period. W belongs in Pelican Bay.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:06:45 AM EST
    they didn't "lie through their teeth" demos and repubs and other foreign governments believe Iraq was storing wmd. What they did is whooped up america in a frenzy of fear and your idiot countrymen bought it and elected the cabal. Where were the demos on gitmo? Where were the demos on the war? On the patriot act? Fire the whole lot of em and start over. There are 65 lobbyists for every one congressperson and 200 million a month spent lobbying. I don't know what is worse, corporations dictating the laws of this country or leaders ignoring them.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#36)
    by Slado on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:11:29 AM EST
    Jvl, You don't live in China. That's why you shouldn't worry about someone listening to your calls. However if you constantly call or receive calls from Afghanistat I'd ask your buddy if he's a terrorist. All these records are public. Isn't the fact simply that the NSA is getting the info as it happens instead of waiting to get it later? I don't see what the problem is. My problem is the media and liberals are trying to potray it as spying when it's not.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:12:36 AM EST
    But they're in favor of tax-cuts and deregulation, and their holy mission of spreading supply-side economics ( akin to the mysterious workings of divine providence), to the rest of the world justifys everything else.

    et al... This is what's really happening. href="http://http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/05/11/just-another-day-at-the-office-for-the-leakers/"> (sorry I don't know how to link this a little easier)

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#39)
    by scribe on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:36:50 AM EST
    I re-read the USAToday article, and here's an interesting bit:
    The NSA told Qwest that other government agencies, including the FBI, CIA and DEA, also might have access to the database, the sources said. As a matter of practice, the NSA regularly shares its information -- known as "product" in intelligence circles -- with other intelligence groups. Even so, Qwest's lawyers were troubled by the expansiveness of the NSA request, the sources said.
    Gee, tracking everyone you call and who calls you, and then turning it over to the FBI, DEA or CIA. Whod'a thunk it? I have my doubts about whether the Soviet Union's internal (purely domestic) telephone monitoring was ever this stringent. And, why isn't anyone calling W on his lying - "we're only looking at international calls"? Welcome to dictatorship.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:42:05 AM EST
    Slado, it is not my buddy, rather my business, and we call many countries, often. Assuming that someone calling Afghanistan is calling a terrorist is like assuming your parents didn't love you all that much. I can tell from your notes on this site that you are emotionally deprived and borderline psychotic. No fun to be judged now is it? The dems have to assume as much responsibility for this mess as the repubs, patriot act, touch and grope at the airports, hundreds of secret prisons, etc. Give me Dean and Feingold or give me death.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#41)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:44:55 AM EST
    Slado, would it help if I told you that amidst this they were tracking leads for dead attractive white women? I bet you would love it even more.

    All these records are public.
    Your telephone records are not public records.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#43)
    by roy on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:54:33 AM EST
    Slado, Your assertion that this information is "public" is bogus. If it's public, tell me, how often do I talk to my parents? Know why you don't know? Because it's private information. The phone company has that information, and if you get their consent they'll share it with you, but that doesn't make it public. Consent is a key thing, here, too. Sounds like the NSA didn't ask politely and get permission, they intimidated. If the story about threatening to pull Qwest's government contracts is true, they coerced. Besides, even if the snooping is legal, it's creepy. I don't want the Feds to know that I blow off answering my parents' calls if Doctor Who is on. Now they're trying to avoid judicial involvement, that's double creepy. I've heard a theory floating around that the NSA pressed the phone companies to violate congressional consumer privacy laws -- if true, we have a creepiness trifecta. Jondee, Many of us who actually like sustainable tax cuts, deregulation, and supply-side economics have stopped believing the GOP's claims that it shared these goals. Why do you still fall for it?

    JVL.
    There are 65 lobbyists for every one congressperson and 200 million a month spent lobbying.
    I know little of your BoR, a little, but what I do know makes me look at the Framers with a great deal of respect. Granted they learned well the pitfalls of being ruled by a totaliarian regime (my forefathers) And such came up with a constitution that, given the year, was quite remarkable, and still is, or should be, the benchmark for all republics. The basics hold good today as they did then. The right to lobby congress was in it's day, another safeguard for the constitution. What they never envisaged was the cesspool of corruption that we witness today. Forgive me if I am wrong in my facts, and likewise my opinion.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 11, 2006 at 12:01:52 PM EST
    scribe writes:
    Well, I see Rover's lackey is up early this morning.
    And I see Chicken Little is still saying the sky is falling. Lilybart writes:
    If they need a new law to regulate this practice, then they should go to the rubber-stamp congress and get one
    . Since it is not illegal, why do they need a law? aw - So your answer is, no. Okay. That's not unexpected. BTW - I never kiss and tell. And speaking of love interests... Were you jealous of Monica? Jlvngstn writes:
    So what is to stop a rogue agent from planting some BS evidence because they didn't like my online rantings?
    Nothing. matt - I think this is different that data mining... My guess on how it works is simple. Telephone number X located in the ME is the number of a known/suspected terrorist. You plug that number into a computer with all the records and ask: Find me all records with this number. The answer comes back that Number Y in San Diego matches 17 times in the past 10 days. Ten were incoming calls rom X and 5 were outgoing calls from Y to X. You then ask, who did Y call? And you discover that in addition to X he called 4 other numbers across the US multuiple times over the past 10 days, and he also called Delta Airlines... and so did the other 4 numbers... You think this might be the reason we haven't had a successful attack since 9/11?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 12:04:00 PM EST
    Roy - If you can pull it off without forcefully imposing it on those here and abroad who dont share your concept of what constitutes a life meaningfully spent, go for it.

    sorry if this point has been made, but how many Americans would be willing to boycott these companies for allowing their personal information to be shared with outside agencies? i need to read the fine print on my Cingular agreement and see whether it indicates that by signing on i have forfeited my right to reasonable search and seizure. but i did get some free ringtones....

    Jim.
    You think this might be the reason we haven't had a successful attack since 9/11?
    I have no desire to lessen the tragedy of 9/11. But if Bush had been MY president I would have been ashamed. For all his tough guy posturing, he took the most powerful nation on earth and turned it into the biggest pussy in the world. Fear fear and the climate of fear served him well. But oh what a disservice it did to your country.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 12:35:16 PM EST
    "a successful attack since 9/11" - How many attacks before Massa got elected involved thousands being killed. Of course, if another similar one occured it would be the Lefts fault. After all they caused your crab grass infestation and halitosis, which proves there's no lengths they wont go to to make your life a living Hell.

    I did not want to go there jondee, but within America's borders how much had you suffered attack (Foriegn)before that awful day. Which in turn makes my point.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#52)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 01:14:13 PM EST
    Just curious my dear limmericker, is it your contention that were the founding fathers around today, they would approve of the lobbyists and the legislature written no longer by the senate, rather the lobbyists? Here is where I stand, the system is broken. I am getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Dems and repubs are being bought daily by big business and they no longer run this country. Our politicians are pandering corporate hacks and should be sentenced to 20 years of military service...... Besides that, congress adn the pres are doing great.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 01:21:01 PM EST
    You think this might be the reason we haven't had a successful attack since 9/11?
    That has got to be the answer. Wow, i had no idea you were still analyzing top secret intel Jim. Hey, tell me this, is Paris Hilton a top or a bottom?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#54)
    by Slado on Thu May 11, 2006 at 01:22:05 PM EST
    Thanks for the personal attack JL. If you are receiving calls from a "freind" who is a suspected terrorist then I hope the government is listening to your calls.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#55)
    by Patrick on Thu May 11, 2006 at 01:32:26 PM EST
    BTW- this used to be called a "pen register". It is illegal without a warrant. Period.
    Roger, That's not entirely true. Records can be obtained by subpoena.

    Thanks for the personal attack JL. If you are receiving calls from a "freind" who is a suspected terrorist then I hope the government is listening to your calls.
    I also hope the government is listening to Jlvngstn's calls if he is talking to a known or suspected terrorist. As long as the government gets a warrant to perform such surveillance.

    Just curious my dear limmericker, is it your contention that were the founding fathers around today, they would approve of the lobbyists and the legislature written no longer by the senate, rather the lobbyists?
    I think they would load up their muskets and retake Congress by force of arms.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#58)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 11, 2006 at 01:41:08 PM EST
    What you can assume and require me to ask a "friend" in Afghanistan if they are a terrorist, but I cannot assume that your paranoia makes you dangerous? I would wager that there might be a few people in AFghanistan that are not terrorists, and asking every person that i contact if they are a terrorist because they live in Afghanistan, would go over as well as me asking everyone from the south if they hung a black person recently, after all that's where they hung em.

    is Paris Hilton a top or a bottom?
    I know not, but were she to grace my bedroom she would know exactly where she crawled. Sorry gals, can't be full of PC all the time.

    Roy... I don't want the Feds to know that I blow off answering my parents' calls if Doctor Who is on. Do you actually think anyone in the Gov really cares about that? Jondee.... How many attacks before Massa got elected involved thousands being killed. There were many attacks (as you know) and, a couple hundred here and a couple hundred there...it does add up. Maybe if Billy boy would have done more...9/11 could have been avoided?

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#61)
    by roger on Thu May 11, 2006 at 02:47:44 PM EST
    Patrick, Of course, you are correct. I really didnt want to get into the distinction, mainly because both are part of the legal process, invoking the power of the court. The point remains the same

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Thu May 11, 2006 at 02:48:56 PM EST
    B.B - I want you for a boss. Who else could you work for for six months in a well compensated position that theoretically entails the utmost in responsibility with the most sophisticated technology in history at your disposal, surrounded by the most highly qualified staff possible, and then, when an unprecedented disaster occurs be able to shift the blame completely to the guy thats been gone for six months. Kinda sounds like the dream job. Like hitting the lottery.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Thu May 11, 2006 at 03:00:28 PM EST
    Do you actually think anyone in the Gov really cares about that?
    You'd be surprised brother...I'm still astonished that the gov cares what smoke I inhale. Nobody should care who their fellow free citizens are talking too...yet they do. Why? And don't tell me to catch terrorists, catching terrorists is great when done within the very necessary guidelines of probable cause and court oversight. I laugh at my friends on the right who screamed bloody murder over Waco but are ok with this regime's record on freedom and rights. We should stick up for freedom no matter who is in charge. Common sense my friend. There is no good reason to allow our employees in Washington to collect data on us. None. It can only be used for something deviant. It's important to remember this garbage has been going on for over 50 years. Hoover, cointelpro, carnivore...plus all the shenanigans we never learn of. D and R alike. Enough is enough.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 11, 2006 at 05:06:00 PM EST
    Oscar writes:
    But if Bush had been MY president I would have been ashamed.
    Of what, Oscar?

    Ashamed for my country. Ashamed that we were showing the world just how F***ing dumb we were voting in a guy dumber than we were. Jim, I used to wonder how Bush ever got elected. (diebold apart) Now I don't.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 12, 2006 at 06:18:27 AM EST
    Oscar - I understand that you think that you are much smarter than the average person. That is a rather typical belief for those who hate Bush. In fact, I have never seen anyone who hates Bush who didn't think they were superior to others. But you didn't answer the question. What has Bush done that we should be ashamed about? Invade Iraq? The vast majority thought that the invasion was proper based on intelligence available.
    "There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002
    "I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002
    With the leadership on both sides, plus a huge majority of the international community, saying that Saddam had WMD's, what would you have done?
    Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes. (Applause.) Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option. (Applause.)
    2003 SOTU BTW - Re intellect. Do you think the intelligence of the American Public will magically blossom if they elect a Left Wing Democrat, or will they do so out of the same ignorance they elected Bush? (Sarcasm alert.)

    Thantks for reminding us how some Democrats repeated the lies told to them by the current malAdministration in the sincere belief that the info couldn't be wrong and wouldn't lie about such things. You forgot to quote Rummy: "We know where the weapons are.." Oh, and the Left has definitely moved out from under your bed PPJ, so you can quit being scared that they'll be dragging you under when you're sleeping. TTFN

    Jondee... B.B - I want you for a boss. LOL..I doubt that. when an unprecedented disaster occurs be able to shift the blame completely to the guy thats been gone for six months I know most on the left hate to admit to "facts"... but the facts are...more terrorist attacks occurred while Billy boy was at the helm. Granted...not one of the many was as successful as 9/11...but they were trying nun the less. All the planning and training (to fly right here in Fla.) was done under Clinton's watch. Sorry, but these are FACTS! Clinton had 8 years to do something and anybody with any reasoning can't lay ALL the blame at a guy that was in charge for 8 months.. Kdog... There is no good reason to allow our employees in Washington to collect data on us. None All they are collecting is numbers. I see no harm in that. Hell, most of us give far more info when applying for a freakin credit card! If the Government wants the real dirt on you, all they'd have to do is call your credit card company... They'd find out much more about you than what numbers you are calling.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Fri May 12, 2006 at 09:54:26 AM EST
    B.B - Like I said, I want you for a boss. From my observation, you've never laid ANY blame on Bush.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Fri May 12, 2006 at 09:55:33 AM EST
    BB-
    I know most on the left hate to admit to "facts"... but the facts are...more terrorist attacks occurred while Billy boy was at the helm.
    Why not just make sh*t up, your dear leader does it all the time.

    Jim. In answer to your question regarding superiority. I chose my my friends for their good looks, my acquantances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies. However on this occassion It would appear that I have to make an exception.

    the 50,000-square-foot museum features animatronic dinosaurs, state-of-the-art models and graphics, and a half-dozen staff scientists. It holds that the world and the universe are but 6,000 years old and that baby dinosaurs rode in Noah's ark. Another poll showed that 65 percent of Americans want creationism taught alongside evolution.
    I rest my case.

    Jondee... From my observation, you've never laid ANY blame on Bush. Not true...I blame Bush for lots of things... not just EVERTHING like most of you all do. Squeaky.... Why not just make sh*t up, your dear leader does it all the time. Are you suggesting that what I said about more attacks under Clinton was made up (not true)?....

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Fri May 12, 2006 at 02:20:33 PM EST
    Are you suggesting that what I said about more attacks under Clinton was made up (not true)?....
    Gotta give it to you BB, you do have a sense of humor.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Fri May 12, 2006 at 03:23:47 PM EST
    I see no harm in that
    I do see harm in it and a potential for abuse, but that's not even the point. Why collect more data than you could ever analyze? On every American! I'm sure you'd guess I'm against govt access to our finances to. I think it's b.s. that your bank has to tell the govt. when you deposit ten grand. And the internet gaming law in the house will make it worse, forcing banks to tell the govt. where you make credit card purchases. That's not freedom and I'm surprised you're ok with it. From our past discussions I always thought you had freedom's back, as much as we disagree on other stuff. What the NSA should be doing is data mining individuals for which the FBI/CIA/HSA/NSA has probable cause of terrorist activity. Not this totalitarian USSR-like crap.

    Re: NSA Conducting Massive Data Collecting of Ame (none / 0) (#76)
    by roger on Fri May 12, 2006 at 05:02:56 PM EST
    BB, I believe that the highest number of attacks occured under Reagan