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Support "A Day Without Immigrants"

Millions of immigrants across the United States will take a sick day from work and school to peacefully march in protest of Congress' ill-conceived and overly punitive immigration reform proposals and to demand the recognition that is due them as an indispensable part of our labor force. This is not unprecedented in our country's history.

On May 1, 1886, workers in the U.S., many of them immigrants, took to the streets to protest oppressive working conditions. Over the course of the next several days, there was bloodshed and repressive police tactics, but thereafter, all workers in the U.S. incurred the benefits of an 8 hour, 5 day workweek, the right to unionize and other needed protections.

Today there will be rallies, boycotts and work closures. What do the marchers and protesters want? As NNIR puts it,

[They are] demanding recognition as indispensable members of U.S. society, with the right to living wages, safe working conditions and protections. They want the same rights as any other member of the U.S.: the right to travel, work, live, study and worship freely and safely, and to reunite their families without discrimination and violence.

We do need immigration reform. But the new policies must be humane and provide equality. The reforms we need are ones which will:

  • Provide the opportunity for undocumented immigrants to legalize their status
  • Expand avenues for legal immigration and support family reunification
  • Provide access and options for permanent residency and citizenship
  • Strengthen labor protections and their enforcement for all workers, both native and foreign born
  • End the employer sanctions program
  • End border and immigration enforcement abuses

Legalization should be immediate and without conditions. There should be no criminalization and no border walls. There should be protection of labor rights and civil liberties.

Sensenbrenner's H.R. 4437, a bad, bad border bill, must go down to defeat. We do not want legislation that creates a "permanent criminalized underclass" or one that would split up families or not provide for a clear path to legalization. As NNIR says,

The pending proposals in Congress are ignoring the historic and massive grassroots immigrant worker and community movement calling for justice and equality as part of any immigration reforms, and who say no to any proposal that divides families, offers deportations and temporary worker visas, guts civil rights and liberties, and creates a three-tiered workforce and society, where immigrants are disposable and deportable.

What about the immigration crisis? There is no immigration crisis.

There is no immigration crisis -- other than the one created by a small but vocal stripe of opportunist politicians, media demagogues and freelance xenophobes. So it has always been throughout the history of this country when anti-immigrant hysteria periodically reigns during ebbs in our national sense of security and vision.

....The number of claimed "illegal aliens" as a percentage of the population is clearly absorbable by the job market, as our low unemployment rate demonstrates.

....It is time to acknowledge that we need the immigrant workers as much as they need us, and to begin to treat them with the respect they deserve.

If you are driving around and see the rallies, honk your horn in support. Cheer them on. Take pictures to upload to your blog. Particularly at 12:16 pm:

At exactly 12:16pm on May 1st, immigrant workers, business owners, and community members at several locations can take a few minutes out from their workday to join together in solidarity with immigrants across the nation, by lining up along major immigrant commercial thoroughfares and holding signs that read, "We Are America!" and "I Love Immigrant New York!"

The symbolism of 12:16? It's the day Sensenbrenner's bill passed the House of Representatives.

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  • Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#1)
    by fafnir on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:17:43 AM EST
    A process exists to allow people to immigrate legally and become citizens. Millions of people have used it successfully to achieve their goals; others choose to invade, instead. The negligence of illegals and those who hire them should not be rewarded. Today, you can stand with the corporate interests who advocate open borders and illegal cheap labor exploitation, and I'll stand with the neglected interests of native working-class people. No, usted no puede.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:36:36 AM EST
    Now the concept of "illegal" is so baffling to TL that you can't even include it in your description of the event. It's pathetic.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:42:37 AM EST
    I'm afraid this particular issue is not black and white and strictly divided on political lines.. I for one, as a liberal, am unsympathetic and literally furious at what these people are trying to pull.. I believe in laws and laws not being broken, even when 10 million try to force it.. The more they demand, the more angry I get... Let's not forget our families that came over with integrity and legally and truly valued and honored this country.. these people have no honor or appreciation for this country.. all they want is the cash.. period..

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:53:39 AM EST
    Now the concept of "illegal" is so baffling to TL that you can't even include it in your description of the event. It's pathetic.
    What is baffling is how ignorant you are towards TL's point, which is...
    We do not want legislation that creates a "permanent criminalized underclass" or one that would split up families or not provide for a clear path to legalization.


    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:07:05 AM EST
    et al - I know of no rights that legal immigrants are being denied. Can anyone show me just one case where legal immigrants are being denied their rights? The issue here, and one that the Left is trying to obscure, is that the problems lie with "illegal aliens." I have no particular desire to see "illegal aliens" punished. And if they are being treated poorly we should see that the bad treatment is ended promptly, with charges against those breaking the law. That would be both personS. The punishment for the US person violating the law should be as established in the various codes. The illegal alien should just be promptly deported. Like as fast as we can get them to the border. We are a big country and have a lot of resources. We should put them to work sealing off the border and deporting those illegal aliens who are currently here. We should also punish severely any person/company/corporations who we can prove knowingly employed illegal aliens. In the meantime, any company that I do business with today who can not provide service and uses this as an excuse will be told this: Hire some citizens. They won't run off demonstrating.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:11:35 AM EST
    macromanic - Although I am against a "guest worker" program, how does this create a criminalized underclass? Aren't you really saying that what is wanted is Open Borders, allowing all who want to come and go?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:16:22 AM EST
    This issue is so clear I don't know why people have a tough time grasping it. Legal immigration is good, illegal immigration is bad. Once you enter somewhere illegally you can't clean it up and make it legal. If someone breaks into your house and cleans it up and cooks dinner, they don't get to stay there because they have made a contribution. They will be charged with a crime. If you go to an amusement park and get caught cutting to the front of the line you are either sent back to the end of the line or removed from the park. How would you feel if 2000 people were allowed to cut in front of you at an amusement park, allowed to ride the rides ahead of you (well since they are already at the front of the line we might as well let them stay) as you wait in line legally for your turn. "They do jobs Americans won't do" is a lie. Americans will do any job that has a fair wage, fair working conditions, and reasonable benefits. Many Americans love farming and working outdoors and are heartbroken because their family farms have gone broke. I disagree that I have to pay taxes for 20 million people to have access to health care, access to schools, social security (when they don't pay into the system)and other social services. A sub minimum wage employee does not make enough to have to pay federal taxes so all they do is use services that we pay for. Set the immigration limit as high as you want to but make everyone come through the front door legally for consideration. I am not for hunting them down to deport them. They should be deported if they are caught here illegally and they should never be allowed to apply for citizenship until they come here legally.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:32:33 AM EST
    macromanic - Although I am against a "guest worker" program, how does this create a criminalized underclass?
    Read the proposed legislation. If you do not see it that way then that is your interpretation. However, beware the law of unintended consequences. Poorly conceived legislation always comes back to bite us in the ass.
    Aren't you really saying that what is wanted is Open Borders, allowing all who want to come and go?
    No... Quit trying to obfuscate by "putting words in my mouth". I never stated or even implied that I advocate open borders.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#9)
    by Johnny on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:04:50 AM EST
    Let's not forget our families that came over with integrity and legally and truly valued and honored this country..
    LMMFAO... Wow. Where did you read that? "Manifest Destiny and You: The Indo-Europeans Guide to Re-Writing History"?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:07:25 AM EST
    So you don't advocate open borders? Please tell me how letting anyone who crosses an unfenced border stay is any different than open borders? Where do we draw the line?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:40:37 AM EST
    I have to agree with the general sentiments here. If one immigrates to this country legally, then they have (and should have) most if not all the rights of US Citizens. But those who immigrate illegally should be deported back to their home country and should be encouraged to try the legal route. I am having trouble understanding calls by the left (of which I am a member) to legalize those who break the law. I am not surprised that pending Republican legislation is bad and should not be supported, but that does not mean we should toss out existing laws. Also, shouldnt the corporations and businesses who are employing illegals bear some of this brunt?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:05:36 AM EST
    I am having trouble understanding calls by the left (of which I am a member) to legalize those who break the law

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:15:02 AM EST
    Sorry, hit post instead of quote. It's simple logistics...you simply cannot chain and deport 10 million people absent a totalitarian police state. Can't be done. Same as you cannot chain and arrest tens of millions of mj users. Save the cries of law and order. The country and economy benefit off these people's blood sweat and tears. Maybe if you didn't have to wait on line for 20 years to get in legally more would do so. Maybe it's because I break the law everyday...but the fact that illegal immigrants broke the law makes no difference to me. Are they good people? Let them stay with full rights. If they murder, rob, or rape...deport them.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:19:21 AM EST
    Kdog, you say it is simple logistics, but you have previuosly said that you would not support deporting known gangmembers who are here illegaly. This would not be a huge logistical problem and they are certainly not contributing anything.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#15)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:33:22 AM EST
    "They do jobs Americans won't do" is a lie. Americans will do any job that has a fair wage, fair working conditions, and reasonable benefits. Jade points out who the TRUE CRIMINALS are in this issue. But this is preaching to the choir. That's why we should boycott US businesses. They are the root of the problem. The rightards (fence builders, felon law lovers, etc) are just unknowing enablers. They are unwittingly doing the bidding of agribusiness, who do things better because they cheat, and Mall Wart, who supports Chinese, Indonesian and Malaysian (to name a few) slave labor and deny workers rights here in our home country. Traitors. I disagree that I have to pay taxes for 20 million people to have access to health care, access to schools, social security (when they don't pay into the system)and other social services. It's up to 20 million in just a few days. You realize, of course, that one month of Iraq war funding would solve this problem in a heartbeat.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:39:17 AM EST
    JRT...I take issue with "known gangmember". This means nothing to me. We've gone over this and disagree. I say punish crime, not choices in friends.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:39:56 AM EST
    Make that "real" crime...not b.s. like "suspected gang membership".

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:49:18 AM EST
    Does tatooing yourself with gang symbols take you past "suspected"? If you really don't want to deport anyone unless they are tried and convicted of a felony then just say so, but don't hide behind logistics.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:02:46 AM EST
    If you really don't want to deport anyone unless they are tried and convicted of a felony then just say so
    I thought I had. Don't deport anybody unless they are convicted of a serious aka "real" crime.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:04:24 AM EST
    So you would tell holocaust victims that they are the equivalent of Latin Kings? You are still a complete A-hole.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:04:51 AM EST
    It's simple logistics...you simply cannot chain and deport 10 million people absent a totalitarian police state.
    I don't think any reasonable person is suggesting this. We *do* need to tighten the border. We *do* need to do all we can to prevent illegal immigration. We need to do all we can to streamline and simplify legal channels of immigration. To those who are in the country illegally today, why not set a date in the near future (say, 3 months out) and allow them until then to go to an INS office, prove current employment, complete necessary paperwork and begin the process of paying back taxes and fines. After the cutoff date, anyone discovered to be here illegally is immediately deported, no questions asked. As for future unskilled immigrants, the industries that rely heavily on immigrant labor (ag, hospitality, etc) should setup a system across the border to allow Mexicans to register for work. When an employer has an opening, they can pay for their transportation to come to the US and fill the position. Employers should try and fill open positions in America with American citizens. When that's not possible, a legal system of finding willing workers across the border should be in place.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:06:09 AM EST
    Kdog- so does that mean that our borders should be wide open?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#23)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:15:21 AM EST
    Staying home. The whole house.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:22:49 AM EST
    Charlie, why not tell us why you feel that deporting a Latin King who has tatooed himself with gang symbols is equivalent to Jews being tatooed and then killed by Nazis?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:38:18 AM EST
    No JRT, I understand the need for increased border security. I'm not fighting that. But increased security is moot unless we streamline the legal immigration process, or improve wages to where Americans will take menial jobs.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:40:14 AM EST
    Posted by kdog May 1, 2006 09:38 AM No JRT, I understand the need for increased border security. I'm not fighting that. But increased security is moot unless we streamline the legal immigration process, or improve wages to where Americans will take menial jobs.
    Agreed

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:41:33 AM EST
    improve wages to where Americans will take menial jobs.
    . That's a nonsensical assertion. If labor costs go up for tasks that can be mechanized, it makes replacing labor with capital cost effective for farmers. Many a farmer have been quoted the past few weeks saying what keeps them from investing in harvest machines is the availability of cheap labor. Wages can't be artificially elevated without consequences.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#28)
    by Slado on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:42:56 AM EST
    What is so sad about this whole point in our history is that any real solution isn't feasible because both parties are worried about losing "swing" votes of illegal and recently leagal hispanics. Republicans see it as a way to increase their majority and Democrats see it as a way to reclaim majority status. The sad truth is the majority of Americans...even most on this liberal blog...support a plan to deal with who's hear and stronger enformcemnt to keep new people out. By the way this is exactly what the president supports. Unfortunately the extremes are making all the noise between minutemen and marchars. What exactly is the marchers point? Let anyone in because their Mexican or Hispanic and they have a right to live here? Just as ridiculous is the theory that we can round eveyrone up and throw them out. Just like in the case of abortion the extreme fringes of the argument are dominating the issue and nothing can be done for fear that either party will lose some advantage. Uggh.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:48:45 AM EST
    It seems the majority of posters here are 'mostly' in agreement. All these marches are doing is opening up the eyes of most Americans, who up until now, had been ambivalent. Bottom line is....anyone here "illegally" has no right to demand anything! What we need is a 'citizen' backlash.... I submit we start protesting and picket the country of Mexico.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:59:03 AM EST
    Okay, you guys have to realize that you are being taken by some Rovian master plan. It is a two fer. First you encourage undocumented workers by: 1) Unfair trade practices that keep undeveloped countries poor 2) Eliminating any penalty to employers for hiring undocumented workers a. Why are the employers not as "illegal" as the workers ? b. Why don't we hear cries to lynch employers who employ contractors who employ undocumented workers to take away jobs from citizens ? Walmart was totally unaware of its cleaning contractors hiring undocumented workers ? This has the effect of putting pressure on workers wages in the classical Republican technique of pitting one set of workers against the others. Why do you think the Irish rioted during the Civil War? It was because their labor was being threatened by black freemen. Republicans have done this with the Italians against the Irish, the Japanese and Chinese against Hispanic and Anglo workers in the West and the southern mill workers against the northern workers. This means that labor is squeezed, "skilled" jobs become unskilled and unions are eliminated, weakened, or aborted. Why don't we ask for guns and dogs to jail the meat packing company executives, vegetable and fruit growers, the construction contractors and subcontractors who commit the crime of hiring these undocumented "illegals" Incidentally their reply is that they can't pay good wages and benefits because it would cost too much but the labor cost element of food and construction is a small fraction of the overall cost. And what does it matter, if I can make a lot of money selling drugs to kids, does that make it okay because its free market ? Secondly, after you crush labor, you use the racist wing of the Republican Party, the Tancredos and Sensenbrenners to selectively point out that one half of the employment contract, the worker, is in violation of the law and the country is being overrun by these scary brown, yellow, mediterranean, black or finnean, depending on the decade, people That splits the worker's vote and keeps you in office. The only reason you can't charge this up against Rove is that Republicans have been doing it since the Civil War. Now, once we have the problem of a lot of people being lured in by these practices, we have to decide if we are going to handle it the way our parents and grandparents were treated or if we are going to deny our immigrant heritage and tradition. That's another chapter.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#31)
    by SeeEmDee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:59:40 AM EST
    If the illegals wish legal parity with US citizens, perhaps we should insist upon Mexican standards regarding illegal immigration, as per the Mexican Constitution: Article 9 states, "only citizens of the Republic may...take part in the political affairs of the country." Article 33 is even clearer: "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." So why do these non-citizens think they can come here and march in our streets and make political demands when they'd get much worse than verbal brickbats for doing so at home? Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces." Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." Article 16 states, "in cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities." According to Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action." In other words, make a stink, and you're outta there, pronto. Yes, if we're going to have 'harmonization' with Mexico's immigration laws, then by all means, let's adopt theirs, with their much more stringent penatlies for breaking their immigation laws. Which constitute felonies.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 09:21:52 AM EST
    Poor Immigrants. What about the High School Students who protest. Most are under 18 and are incapable of making rational decisons. The Kids who protest don't even know why they are protesting since they are "Slaves Of Projection". and not the indespensible work force that is out to protest. Indespensible sounds a little Prima Donnish to me. Gee wonder where that attitude came from him. "I Came Here With Nothing" they never tell you "Your Stupid Government Gave Me Everything I needed and I didn't have to pay nothing it's great so all my friends are coming and there friends and...

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:23:41 AM EST
    charlie writes:
    All you've gotta do is stake-out a repo fund raiser and you'd put and end to this pronto
    What does that mean? Do you mean a "repo" man trying to pick up cars where the loan as gone bad? Or do you mean a Republician fund raisr? And how do you tell the difference between a Demo fat cat in Hollywood using a lawn service staffed by illegals and a Repub fat cat in Chicago using a lawn service staffed by illegals? BTW - It was the Demo Senate Minority leader, Reid himself, who shut down the vote on the immigration bill just before the Senate recessed because he didn't want any Repub amendments to be voted on. Everyone knows the above, charlie. Except you.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:36:54 AM EST
    "Everyone" - Yeah, everyone that visits your compound in Northern Idaho.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#35)
    by Dadler on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:52:13 AM EST
    This entire god*amn country was founded by "illegal" immigrants, who committed genocide to take what they wanted. And now we want to criminalize a tide of humanity acting much more productive and contributory than our original illegals did. We want all the advantages of the global economy, that keeps many people essentially enslaved for our economic benefit, but we don't want to deal with ANY of those poor people, or their plight, or their desperate longing for a better life. It is something NONE of us has ever had to face, and few here seem to have the imagination to comprhend and deal with it in a humane manner.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:53:19 AM EST
    Wages can't be artificially elevated without consequences

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:31:48 AM EST
    "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt 1907 Nuff said!

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:39:33 AM EST
    Charlie.... Take that slop to freeperville, it don't fly here. He we go with the freeperville stuff again. LOL... Too bad your comments make no sense...(As usual).. as I adressed in another (freeperville) blog Yeah, by all means, go picket Mexico. ...Bring your friends. All of 'em! Less is more. Never said anything about goin to Mexico... Once again (as usual) you don't comprehend what you read. No surprise there. (PPJ already handed you your ass about that on another post so I won't go into that again) I'm through trying to talk with you. Better (smarter) conversations with my 5 year old nephew. You're Dismissed!

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:56:22 AM EST
    How 'bout this - what if we legislate that all construction, hospitality and farm workers must be provided with health insurance? That way (since we know there is no more important an issue for all those Americans w/o health insurance than getting health insurance) all the const/hosp/ag jobs will be taken by legal Americans who don't have health ins. in order to get health ins. This way uninsured Americans'll all get health ins, and all the illegals will go back home because their illegal jobs will be taken by legal Americans. A two fer.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#40)
    by Sailor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:26:29 PM EST
    I kinda like suo's suggestion. I'm sure the law of unintended consequences would come into play, but the whole 'illegals take jobs Americans aren't willing to do' meme is based on an unmentioned caveat: illegals take jobs Americans aren't willing to do ... for those wages.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:46:10 PM EST
    Damn it...did it again, hit post instead of quote...I'm struggling today.
    Wages can't be artificially elevated without consequences
    Just as they can't be artificially supressed without consequences...which is exactly what we are dealing with right now. Unscrupulous employers getting subsidized by taxpayers while paying illegal immigrants supressed wages.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 02:30:37 PM EST
    Actually, suo, it's a three-fer. Your solution would simply make three industries so unprofitable that they aren't done here anymore: construction, agricultural work and hospitality. It's so cute. People like suo are willing to say all kinds of things they don't really support as long as it involves sticking it to those damn furriners. Pro-employer types who've never had anything nice to say about regulation of wages, health, safety, emissions, hiring, etc. start writing all of this invective about putting employers in gulags for inaccurate I-9 forms. And someone like suo, who probably trembles with anger with the thought that out-of-status aliens get emergency medicaid disingenuously volunteers to fund the insurance for the workers of three massive industries. People like suo will say damn near anything, but the only thing they really care about is: when do the roundups start?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 01, 2006 at 02:51:33 PM EST
    PJB, hope you feel better now. Although I will admit that you're right on the main issue, I didn't mean a word of what I wrote. I thought people would realize that it was obviously sarcasm. However, the rest of what you say makes me chuckle though, clearly, of the two of us, I'm not the one trembling in anger.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:31:11 PM EST
    Your solution would simply make three industries so unprofitable that they aren't done here anymore: construction, agricultural work and hospitality.
    Nope, that's the strawman at the crux. Americans will buy houses, will have farms and will be hospitable. It'll just cost more ... like gas does. The difference is the above jobs will be done by Americans. Maybe not as well as illegal aliens, because ya know, nobody works harder or cheaper than someone you can threaten with deportation.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:20:21 PM EST
    B.B - If you're so into allegience, loyalty and all those other old-fashioned T.R values, why the thunderous silence; the nary-a-peep from you ditto-heads about out-sourcing, the selling of Port Security to the highest bidder, the billions in investment capital going out of the country to that Shangri-la of cheap labor China, the offshore tax-shelters that Bush has done everything to enable etc? The same remorseless logic that drives all that is what welcomes and exploits all these scarey mud-people that have you and JRT so freaked out. Just with-the-gloves-off capitalism pal. Not some ultra-liberal conspiracy hatched by Hillary, Bill Moyers and Jane Goodall.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:24:44 PM EST
    Posted by kdog May 1, 2006 01:46 PM
    Unscrupulous employers getting subsidized by taxpayers while paying illegal immigrants supressed wages.
    Actually, I agree with you here. If we ended the agriculture subsidy programs (including both pre-plant grant and post-harvest purchase and destroy programs) we wouldn't be paying inflated prices for produce, milk and grains. While we're cutting subsidies, let's end the silly oil industry subsidies and drop the ethanol tariff as well.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#47)
    by Sailor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:32:39 PM EST
    Jondee, shorter answer: becuase they don't care about any issues that hurt Americans, just ones that hurt their fearful leader.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#48)
    by Sailor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:43:29 PM EST
    we wouldn't be paying inflated prices for produce, milk and grains
    What a f#$%in! moronic statement! We pay so much less for those items than they cost to produce! Spend a day in the fields and see what you think YOUR labor would be worth! And those subs are the only way small farmers can exist in this economy. Before you talk about raising taxes and prices, how about talking about stopping tax breaks for big oil and rich folks!?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:47:41 PM EST
    Yeah - B.B and JRT took the oppurtunity to go on an extended vacation when that Port deal went down. Probobly a special package deal for conservatives sponsored by the makers of Oxycotin.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#50)
    by BigTex on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:23:55 AM EST
    Don't be fooled into thinking that the only aim is to integrate into society. Here's an example of the rhetoric the activist are using around Houston.
    Hav[e] a Mexican state with the benefits of being in the United States.
    That's not wanting to mix into society. That's not wanting to be part of the melting pot.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:40:16 PM EST
    Posted by Sailor May 1, 2006 05:32 PM Jondee, shorter answer: becuase they don't care about any issues that hurt Americans, just ones that hurt their fearful leader.
    That is uncalled for-once again you are inventing positions for me. What do you want me to say about China? I wish things were different, but I don't know what the solution is. A trade war? Do we get into a tariff battle? Do we fine companies that do business in China? I can't wait to hear your ideas. I have yet to hear any solutions to anything from any of you other than "impeach Bush". You have all somehow come to the conclusion that Bush is the root of all evil and getting rid of him is the ultimate solution. That is why Kerry lost, because his entire platform was "I'm not George Bush"- that wasn't enough.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:39:50 PM EST
    Jondee.... nary-a-peep from you ditto-heads Problem is...you're all too busy calling names and making funny jokes to listen. I was never for many of the things you cited. In spite of what you may think you know, I'm not a blind follower of Bush. He has done many things I'm not too happy about (turning a blind eye to the "illegal" immigration problem is one of them) but the difference is... I'm not willing to blame him for all the worlds problems like you all are.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:52:11 AM EST
    Does anyone realize with whom these illegal aliens have aligned themselves? The Washington Post, alone among national papers, reported that ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) has become an active promoter of the national boycott. The lead group in Answer is the International Action Center. Led by the former attorney general turned extreme-left activist Ramsey Clark, Answer is considered widely to be a front organization for the notorious Workers World Party. The WWP is a communist group, formed in the late 1950s as a breakaway faction from the Trotskyite Socialist Workers Party. The WWP decided it would support even the most dictatorial of Communist leaders if their mission was to undermine America and its allies -- something that didn't sit well with most Trotskyites -- and its final rift with the Socialist Workers Party was over the WWP's support of the crushing Soviet incursion into Hungary in 1956. The WWP went on to back the Chinese government and its tanks against the dissidents in Tiananmen Square, tout the virtue of the North Korean regime and openly state its support for dictators like Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic. Both ANSWER and the International Action Center are closely allied with a small but energetic Marxist-Leninist organization known as the Workers World Party, which in its turbulent history has supported the Soviet interventions in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the Chinese government's crackdown in Tiananmen Square. Today, the WWP devotes much of its energy to supporting the regimes in Iraq and North Korea. ----- Now, that is certainly not welcome. Also, "The meat packers are confirming what we know," says University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, "and that is that this large group of illegal aliens in the United States is lowering the wage rate of semiskilled workers, people who are high school dropouts or high school graduates with minimal training." In fact, a meat-packing job paid $19 an hour in 1980, but today that same job pays closer to $9 an hour, according to the Labor Department. That's entirely consistent with what we've been reporting -- that illegal aliens depress wages for U.S. workers by as much as $200 billion a year in addition to placing a tremendous burden on hospitals, schools and other social services. Illegal immigrants should be made to go home. They may come back legally. I'm not against immigrants, just illegal immigration.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 11:21:49 AM EST
    How's South Africa doing these days Charlie?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:28:43 PM EST
    I am writing to tell you how pleased I am with the day without immigrants. I'm so pleased that I would like to have a lifetime without immigrants (illegal ones anyway). I'm glad they had their day as this has really brought the issue to the forefront. Living in Iowa I don't get to see much of the impact of these illegal immigrants other than we have a lot of Mexican restaurants now. I suspect the drain on the economy caused by these illegal immigrants will one day reach Iowa the same way it has reached places like Mexifornia. I could think of nothing worse than to see the state I have grown to love turn in to what has become of the left coast. Mexican flags flying above the U.S. Flag in front of our schools, emergency rooms in hospitals being used as primary clinics for free care, children being killed by uninsured drunken motorists, violent crimes being conducted at will, and the list goes on and on. The stories of those employers who say they are financially impacted by the day off are a joke. We shouldn't be printing their stories in the paper; we should be arresting them for hiring labor without the appropriate background checks. If getting rid of the illegal immigrants' means I have to pay more for a tomato then so be it. In the overall scheme of things many other costs should go down. Healthcare costs should go down because we would have far fewer non payers showing up in our emergency rooms and auto insurance should go down because there will be far fewer uninsured motorists that I have to pay for in my premium are a couple of examples. There should never be a reward for breaking the law. To suggest some form of amnesty because of the negative impact on the economy is both false and disgusting. Since when did a negative impact on the economy justify breaking the law? What about all those immigrants that followed the rules and have successfully become American citizens? This isn't fair to them either and sends a terrible message. Many say it would be impossible to deport 10 million illegal immigrants but we can remove the reason they come here in the first place. We have turned our heads the other way too long. We need to get a handle on this issue while we still can, if we still can.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:59:00 PM EST
    Why is it that when confronted with facts that go against your beliefs, you feel the need to resort to name-calling? The truth hurts, doesn't it? Where are the facts supporting your views? Have you not posted them yet because you're still making them up?

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 01:21:19 PM EST
    AmyH here are some facts: Mexican flag flown above U.S. Flag http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/mexicoflag.asp Illegal immigrants breaking the bank at our nations schools http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchf6ad Illegal immigrants using our healthcare system http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2003/feb03/psrfeb03.shtml

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#58)
    by Dadler on Wed May 03, 2006 at 01:29:45 PM EST
    RedM3 Where do you live, just curious? I live fifteen minutes from Mexico and I can honestly say that the Padres and Chargers and political corruption are a much bigger financial drain on this city than illegals. At least the mayor here finally had the balls to tell the Chargers we couldn't afford to help build (by GIVING away prime Southern Cali land) their multi-millionaire owner a zillion dollar stadium that would sit empty and useless for about 315 days a year. Take some deep breaths.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 01:40:42 PM EST
    Dadler, I live in Iowa. We don't build multi-million dollar complexes paid for by taxpayer dollars. But then again nobody is really clawing thier way to try and get to Iowa either and I'm glad for that. For those that would think I'm just some hick in the middle of a corn field please just keep thinking that. I'm sure there are plenty of other disgusting stories that can be told about the goings on in California that don't have anything to do with illegal immigrants. Problem is that's not what this post is about...

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 01:48:16 PM EST
    AmyH Thanks for the clarification. I have been working in healthcare for over 15 years. It used to be a very enjoyable and rewarding career. Any more however the problems are so numerous and daunting I no longer find it an enjoyable way to earn a living. I have seen our emergency rooms go from providing urgent acute care to becoming the family physician office for the uninsured. I think we can and should provide coverage for our own citizens. I don't think it possible or reasonable to provide coverage for someone who entered this country illegally or overstayed a once legal entry.

    Re: Support "A Day Without Immigrants" (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Wed May 03, 2006 at 01:51:54 PM EST
    that illegal aliens depress wages for U.S. workers by as much as $200 billion a year
    Illegal immigrants depress nothing. Those that employ them are the ones depressing the wages.