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Taking Pride in Being a Liberal

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Sun Mar 12, 2006 at 11:08:44 PM EST
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Actor George Clooney defends being a liberal on Huffington Post. He reminds us there is no shame in being a liberal, in fact, it's a source of pride. It's not just our right to question authority, it's our duty.

For those of us who have been questioning authority our entire adult lives, professionally and personally, Clooney's words are very welcome. I hope some Senators and Congresspersons take his words to heart. Liberal values are American values.

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    Taking Pride in Being a Liberal | 43 comments (43 topical)
    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 12, 2006 at 11:21:07 PM EST
    Thank God we have celebrities to tell us sh*t we already know.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 03:56:59 AM EST
    I've always liked the Bertrand Russell quote in the banner of The Anonymous Liberal Blog:
    "The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell
    Of course it's a source of pride. It's being able to learn and grow and embrace new knowledge. It's lack of fear of the world, and especially of fear itself. It's being appreciative of the differences in peoples and enjoying them for who they are, not judging them for what they are not. In fact the only things I can think of that liberals won't tolerate are intolerance, hate, and bigotry, and people who try to pass them off as "points of view" deserving of equal consideration.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 04:02:40 AM EST
    ... and the inability or unwillingness to understand Russell's statement.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#4)
    by aw on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 04:55:08 AM EST
    Liberals haven't done anything to be ashamed of. "Liberal" and "shame" don't belong in the same sentence.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 06:33:19 AM EST
    Definition of liberal from the thefreedictionary.com
    Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
    Sounds like a lot to be proud of!!!!

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 06:37:24 AM EST
    Posted by AsinineAmerican March 13, 2006 12:19 AM
    Thank God we have celebrities to tell us sh*t we already know.
    Evidently, 34 percent of the Country is a bit slow on the uptake. They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings steal a little and they'll throw you in jail steal an election and they'll make you a king Sorry, Zimmy.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 07:43:29 AM EST
    American ideals, by definition, are liberal ideals. Unfortunately, America has been hijacked and thrown terribly off course.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 07:50:59 AM EST
    Clooney is right, of course. There is nothing at all wrong with a liberal viewpoint in and of itself. It's coming to a liberal viewpoint based on a complete disinterest in the facts and with no concern for the consequences, that is something to be ashamed of. I don't think George Clooney has fallen into that trap, but plenty of others have. debbiehammil offers us a rather self-serving definition of liberal, but how many of today's (or yesterday's) liberals can meet the definition? "Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism." Not limited to authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas? By that standard alone there are very few liberals in this country and almost none here at TalkLeft. The liberal left is dogmatic beyond all reason on a woman's right to choose, just to name one example. I happen to support that right, but that doesn't make it any less of a dogmatic viewpoint. The War on Terror, George W. Bush, anything associated with a conservative viewpoint, energy resources, and global warming are all issues where there is a standard liberal dogma as well. Free from bigotry? Since when? The liberal left shows its bigotry every time a person who is both religious and conservative dares to say anything provocative, resorting to name calling and denunciations as a matter of course. And let's not forget the left's frequent reference to all nonliberal blacks as "Uncle Toms" or "whites in blackface". Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress? Oh really? Then why the constant refusal to even look at real Social Security reform? Or Medicare reform? Or Welfare reform? Every time these issues are brought up the left denounces the messenger as an extremist and refuses to admit there is even a problem with any of these programs. Bill Clinton, the poster-boy of the 90s for liberalism, had to be forced to sign Welfare reform. Tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others? Right. As if. The mythological liberal in this definition might be tolerant, but very few self-professed liberals alive today are. Breathe one word that does not fit the current liberal dogma on any issue and you are immediately branded a "winger" or a "neocon" or whatever that day's derogatory catchphrase is and dismissed out of hand. Personally, I wish more liberals did fit this definition. If that were the case, there would be more hope for this country and for the prospect of undoing some of the damage that has been done over the last 14 years. Sadly, it ain't so.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 07:57:54 AM EST
    I'd like to hear his views on Kelo, School choice, gun control, gov't spending, abortion, UN, Israel, taxes, welfare, medicaid, SUVs, citgo, windpower off Nantucket, profiling arab companies or arab for that matter, campaign reform. If disagreeing with going into Iraq makes one a liberal, then I must be liberal. But I doubt it.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#10)
    by Lww on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 08:23:52 AM EST
    I love taking my cues from the Limo liberal crowd. You know the kind. Living in houses that contain a hundred murdered trees, with a Sierra Club sticker on the garage. Sending the kids to private school while defending the public schools as the best in the world. Staunch gun control advocates living in gated communities, with armed security and all the other protections us poor shlubs don't have. Please Barbra, should I turn my AC to 80 degrees this summer and hang my clothes on the line? I know you do.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#11)
    by Peaches on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 08:24:43 AM EST
    JP, I am not going to start an argument with you, because in principle, I agree with much that you say. That is in principle. We will not agree with much, however, in pragmatic results. When we think of liberalism as the definition provided by DebHam, we have to realize this as something to strive for or as something that we wish to achieve, even if this goal seems unattainable at times. This is the tradition of America, which was set up as an experiment based on enlightenment principles when liberalism was synonymous with enlightenment. When we fall short of these ideals, we cannot take this as a reason to abandon the princples of liberalism. So, what are these principles. DebHam provides a succint definition, but a better understanding can be gained by a more comprehensive reading. One could start with philosophy beginning with the ancient Greeks. But, to get the American flavor, the Declaration of Independence, and the constitution also provide some of the basic tenets of liberalism. From there, Thomas Paine, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Walt Whitman, Abe Lincoln, Wiliam James, John Dewey, Franklin Roosevelt up to madern thinkers, such as Richard Rorty, will give one an understanding of what it means to be a liberal. But, America, also has a long history of conservatism that is a necessary balance to the idea of liberalism, although perhaps not as rich and plentiful in ideas. Using DebHams source, Conservatism is:
    Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change. Traditional or restrained in style Moderate; cautious.
    and
    Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources
    These are also ideals that republicans don't adhere to any more often than democrats adhere to liberal ideals. But, they would be wise to strive for. Likewise conservatism has a long history in America as a viable philosophy to strive for or achieve. The list of readings to gain an understanding of these ideals would include: Henry David Thoreau, Aldo Leopold, Sigurd Olsen, Wendell Berry, and my favorite modern conservative thinker--John Taylor Gatto.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 08:57:26 AM EST
    Gee, now that I've stopped laughing hysterically and cleaned the bagel bits and black coffee off the monitor, I have a few thoughts on the matter I'd like to share. Evidently, it's OK for a woman to have a right to choose unless she exercises it. Interesting take. Furthermore, it's OK to be a liberal if you arrive at the position through a conservative-approved thought process. That's big of 'em. Talk about your ignorant, bigoted, self-serving, BS. You can be against the War in Iraq and the policies of the Bush Administration as long as you're for them and as long as you're tolerant of the religious beliefs of fundamentalist Christians while realizing they're under no obligation to respect your religious beliefs because God's on their side, you can stay if you behave yourself, keep quiet and don't make any waves. Gee, what nice folks.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#13)
    by swingvote on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 09:22:43 AM EST
    Thanks Charlie. I knew I could count on you to provide a first-class example of just the sort of close-minded, intolerant, and bigoted "liberal" I was talking about. As usual, your comment is pure, unadulterated BS. Who said anything about a woman having the right to choose but not the right to exercise that choice? Only you. Could this be a classic case of projection? Who said anything about a conservative-approved thought process? Again, only you. All I said was that liberalism is fine when it is the end product of a thought process rather than the swallowing wholesale of the sort of dogma you so frequently preach here. You know, the same way you came to your "liberal" views. "Talk about your ignorant, bigoted, self-serving, BS." That's exactly what I was doing, Charlie. Talking about your bigotry, your ignorance, and your self-serving BS. I'm glad you understood. As for: "You can be against the War in Iraq and the policies of the Bush Administration as long as you're for them and as long as you're tolerant of the religious beliefs of fundamentalist Christians while realizing they're under no obligation to respect your religious beliefs because God's on their side, you can stay if you behave yourself, keep quiet and don't make any waves." Just more of the usual tripe. Nobody has said any such thing; you are once again projecting your own views, through a mirror, onto others. Which is what makes you such a great example of the majority of today's "liberals". You not only will not grant any consideration to another's point of view, you can't even be bothered to present it honestly. You misrepresent what people say to give yourself another soapbox opportunity, then you stand on your newest soapbox and verbally masturbate for your own amusement. It reminds me of John Kerry in 2004, which probably explains why you are such a fan of his. Thanks Charlie, it's always a pleasure.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 10:03:23 AM EST
    I'm a proud Liberal. And I'm a proud Conservative. The hatemongers and warmongers cannot marginalize moi because I'm a Realist Idealist. RealistIdealist.com

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 10:13:28 AM EST
    Darn, I keep messing that up and typing Ideal[ist] instead of Ideal[ism]. Here's the actual link: RealistIdealism.com It forwards you to Bush allegedly taking the oath of office. Enjoy. It sums up his presidency quite succinctly in my view. If you agree, pass it on.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 10:30:36 AM EST
    Narius, I'm not going to revive the debate, but Bush did not get 50% of the vote in 2000. He got the vote of the Supreme Court.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 11:12:39 AM EST
    Jesus JP what a bunch of hypocritical BS. A few pearls: The liberal left is dogmatic beyond all reason on a woman's right to choose, just to name one example. Yes we stand up for freedom. Seems reasonable to me. Got a problem with that? Sorry but the definition of liberal does not include passive. Bill Clinton, the poster-boy of the 90s for liberalism, had to be forced to sign Welfare reform Part of the contract on america? Repug congress? Hello? You don't have to be liberal to fight that trash. Just sane. current liberal dogma Catchy yet meaningless. I hope you got it all out of your system.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#19)
    by roy on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 11:18:49 AM EST
    Some confusion here stems from the fact than the Left is not consistently "liberal" when it comes to making policy. There's a big "political perfectionist" streak as well. Problems arise when we forget the difference, as we're doing in this thread. Bigger problems arise when people vote for a Democrat thinking they'll get a liberal who'll question authority, but they really get a political perfectionist who uses authority to make others do what he thinks they should want to do, or a Leftist who has team loyalty but no ideals. I regurgitated that point from some blog, btw, but I can't remember which. If you really want to question authority, become a libertarian. It's a sweet deal, we don't have to worry about winning elections or anything like that.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#20)
    by swingvote on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 11:25:07 AM EST
    Che, standing up for a right, and blacklisting those who disagree with you about whether it is an absolute right, are two very different things. The first is a good position; the second is a dogmatic response. Just ask Joe Liebermann. The issue was not the sanity of the matter at stake, Che. The issue was the claim that liberals are in favor of reform. Welfare, Social Security, and Medicare prove otherwise. Catchy yet meaningless. On the contrary. You have joined Charlie in proving my point. Your call yourself a liberal, yet you meet none of the definition provided. Does that mean you are a progessive or should we just call it "liberal" and leave it at that? Liberalism was a good thing when it stood for something; nowadays, judging from most "liberals", it only stands against things. Tag an idea, any idea, with a link to Bush or a known conservative, and you can be counted on to show up to oppose it. What will you do come 2009 when Hillary takes the Oval Office? You won't have anything to oppose anymore.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peaches on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 12:00:58 PM EST
    What will you do come 2009 when Hillary takes the Oval Office? You won't have anything to oppose anymore.
    JP, You have been around here long enough. The people on this site will always have something to oppose. Many will oppose you, or people like you. Others will oppose Charlie, TL, TChris, SD, or any other person they identify as liberal. You should decide if you attacking people or liberalism? If you can demonstrate when someone is not being true to liberal ideals, though, you should have a better grasp of what liberalism is. Instead, you attempt to take a definition of liberalism and twist it to fit your own dogmatic, entrenched and extremist position. To defend welfare, social security, and medicare against all calls for reform is dogmatic. However, to wish to preserve the programs so they can serve their intended purposes is at root liberal--and is something all true liberals will always fight for. When liberals interpret life, liberty and the pursiut of happiness they want this dream to include as many Americans as possible. This means providing the economic means to do so to the sick, elderly, and the economic downtrodden. Detemining the best way to achieve this objective should always be open to discussion. Abandoning these programs completely, or stripping them of any ability to function in order to achiever thier purposes through the Right wing dogmatic mantra of privitization (which really means gov't contracts and subsidies benifitting the wealthy elite at expense of the intended recipients of these programs) should be fought for with extreme prejudice (and I mean the intensity of the above vocabulary--because liberal ideals are worth dying for).

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#22)
    by Peaches on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 12:04:38 PM EST
    should be fought for with extreme prejudice
    should be should be fought against with extreme prejudice

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 01:05:35 PM EST
    Peaches: When liberals interpret life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness they want this dream to include as many Americans as possible. This means providing the economic means to do so to the sick, elderly, and the economic downtrodden. Very, very well put Peaches. The mindset is one of finding ways to create a win-win society that includes the least priviliged, rather than a system in which many must 'lose' for a few to 'win'. This is not a game, nor is it 'communism', as it is often derogatorily labelled. It is simply a recognition that no one can lift themselves by forcing or holding others down, and that everyone benefits by offering a hand-up rather than a hand-out to those less fortunate. In a real sense it is self-interest rather than selfishness that drives true liberals since the ultimate aim is for everyone to be surrounded on all sides by people doing well. Idealism? Yes, of course. The existence of America stems from idealism, and America has no future without it. You get what you give.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#24)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 01:49:00 PM EST
    Since when did strong public disagreement become synonomous with "blacklisting" and "reform" with eradication? Probobly around the same time that opposition to privatisation meant being "opposed to everything." and being a liberal meant believing in the papal infallibility of the Clintons. From Rush's a** to j.p to us.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 02:37:04 PM EST
    Actually, I think this discussion is all about degrees and maybe the government's role. Yes, we have gvt-provided social programs and yes they help people, but when do they stop being a hand-up and start being a hand-out? At what point are the minimum economic means met for one to have life & liberty and be able to pursue happiness? I think very few, if anyone, actually advocates that no-one should help anyone else, just as very few, if anyone, advocates full-on communism. So the argument, it seems, to a large part, is over the degree of social programs. And, although I can't speak for them, I'd bet the libertarians feel that should there should be no gvt social programs, and in their absence more people would find a way to do for themselves, and those that couldn't would be given a hand-up from private sources.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#26)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 02:44:51 PM EST
    JP, Same tired rhetoric. You talk a lot, but you don't say anything new. We're not on the Galapagos islands anymore. We've evolved (or most of us have). Money is just money. It's all about power and you think it's the powerless people that are responsible for society's ills. That's the funhouse lookinglass world of libertarianism.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 02:47:58 PM EST
    Sarc, I think you're a liberal in disguise. ;-) Seriously though, Most of us, myself included, are to liberal in some senses and conservative in some senses, so we are in agreement that the argument, it seems, to a large part, is over the degree of social programs.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 02:49:33 PM EST
    How many fortunes made by self styled libertarians or thier allies were expedited by a symbiotic relationship with government? Speaking of "social programs."

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 03:28:41 PM EST
    As the bumper sticker reads "If you are not completely appalled you haven't been paying attention". While I agree that we don't need "celebrities" telling us what we already know, at least they get a microphone and audience more readily than we do and sometimes our fellow Americans with their heads up their a** and in the sand actually start to pay attention.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 04:45:31 PM EST
    edger, I have more liberal leanings than I care to admit, although any time a "celeb" - from either end of the spectrum - gets on a soapbox and starts pontificating about politics my eyes just sort of glaze over... But I think JM is savvy enough to realize that there are many Americans who do give a "celeb's" opinion extra weight.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 05:05:40 PM EST
    Sarc, there are probably more things we agree on then disagree over... As stoptalkingandosomething said of celebrities: at least they get a microphone and audience more readily than we do. Songs, for example, are some of the most powerful memes, and can spread ideas and opinions very quickly. Virally, in fact. We saw it happen in the sixties. We may see it happen again... And they came from everywhere To the great divide Seeking a place to stand Or a place to hide --The Last Resort

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 13, 2006 at 06:15:29 PM EST
    AssinineAmerican writes:
    Thank God we have celebrities to tell us sh*t we already know.
    True. But You Must Understand. Clooney is a High School Graduate With No Experience Beyond Mouthing Words Written By Someone Else While Acting As If He Is Someone Else. I mean really. It is obvious that he is a superior being. Besides, as the ladies use to say, and probably still do, in the easter part of the state.. "He sure is pretty..." Peaches writes:
    To defend welfare, social security, and medicare against all calls for reform is dogmatic. However, to wish to preserve the programs so they can serve their intended purposes is at root liberal--
    As a senile old man, I agree. The question is, how do we preserve and improve. Certainly not by standing pat.

    Re: Taking Pride in Being a Liberal (