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"We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're Going To

by Last Night in Little Rock

Suppose you are an official in a country that espouses free Democratic elections around the world, but when an election comes in a place critical to the balance of world peace and the vote is counted, a rogue government is elected contrary to your expectations? What do you do?

No. I'm not talking about the election of George Bush, although the shoe fits.

This is, of course, about Hamas, and its coming to power in the recent Palestinian election.

Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice admits that Hamas' strength in Palestine was misunderestimated, where the Fatah party of the late Yassir Arafat came in second in the election.

Our first response: "We don't deal with terrorists." But what happens when an organization whose name is often associated with terrorism suddenly gains respectability? Why should our first response to the election be relabelling Hamas as a terrorist organization when it holds a majority of the legislative seats in Palestine? As shown by the news yesterday, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan's pronouncement last Wednesday ("We do not deal with Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Under current circumstances, I don't see any change in that.") may have to change as Rice recognizes reality.

Arafat was often painted as a villan, but he succeeded in spreading internal power around Palestine to keep it out of one group's hands, as the NY Times noted yesterday, and he tried to keep peace. Will this change? Time will tell.

Groups in the Middle East, while having some ties to terrorist activities, or at least remaining on our list of terrorist-related organizations, have assumed political and social roles in last decade to provide services to the people the government won't or can't. That is how they come into power.

Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority. Thus a poor Palestinian family in the West Bank or Gaza might send a child to a Hamas school on a Hamas bus, use a low-cost Hamas medical clinic, play soccer at a Hamas sports club and perhaps rely on a ration of Hamas rice.

While still saying "We don't negotiate with terrorists," the Administration remains hopeful that Middle East peace is possible.

Administration officials said that even in the analysis of Israelis, Hamas's behavior in accepting a period of "calm" in the last year--ceasing its attacks on Israeli civilians--meant that it was willing to break with other groups like Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Israeli and American officials felt that such a trend was to be encouraged.

As for Mr. Abbas's position on disarming Hamas after the elections, an administration official said: "Our sense was that there was a certain logic to his presentation, and we did not see that we could force an alternative on him. But we were also skeptical."

The administration then immediately began working with European and other allies to set up "normative standards" for any group participating in the political process. Those standards are to be the focus of the talks in London, with the financing cutoff an implicit threat to Hamas. But a cutoff could force Hamas to turn to other sources, like Iran, for help.

Ms. Rice told reporters that she was convinced of the wisdom of instilling democracy in the Middle East. Elections have brought into office anti-American Islamic radicals in Egypt, Lebanon and Iran, but Ms. Rice said the alternative was trying to bottle up seething anger in the region that could lead to more terrorist attacks in the West.

So, we are going to deal with Hamas. We have no choice. Will we cut off the $300+M in foreign aid we sent to Palestine? Or will we send them, hat in hand, to Iran, whose newly elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is reputed to be one of the 1979-81 hostage takers.

It all depends upon what your definition of "terrorist" is; or how that definition is going to subtly change over time as circumstances warrant, or the ends justify the means. President-elect Reagan, after all, negotiated with Iran when not yet elected to free the hostages as Iran pandered to him. The Reagan Administration also traded arms for hostages, and his supporters thought that was just fine. So, we do, in fact, deal with terrorists when we think it is expedient.

If we want peace in the Middle East, we have to keep Palestine and Israel in balance. The EU has already said it will do its part.

The question now is whether the U.S. has painted itself into a corner on this one, or is Rice finding a way out? Condi may be the only sane person in the White House.

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    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 05:31:30 AM EST
    Will we cut off the $300+M in foreign aid we sent to Palestine? Or will we send them, hat in hand, to Iran,
    They will go to Iran no matter what we do. The question us whether or not we buy the airline ticket. All aid should be cut of until the renounce terrorism and agree that Israel exists.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 05:38:32 AM EST
    They will go to Iran no matter what we do... All aid should be cut of until the renounce terrorism
    Good plan. Let's make sure they only have one friend, instead of two. Drive them right into the arms of Iran, then cut off all discourse. Sure... Of course! That'll help. Now why didn't I think of that.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 05:47:52 AM EST
    edger - They have had years to have more than one friend, and they haven't done so. Hamas has no redeeming social value.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 05:49:58 AM EST
    Hamas has no redeeming social value.
    Right. None, whatsoever...
    Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority.


    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#5)
    by The Heretik on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 06:36:08 AM EST
    Is there anything Bush and Condoleezza Rice have estimated correctly? A bit more background on this at Nobody Could Have Foreseen . . . Complexities can't get reduced what we wish was true. Reality demands otherwise.

    Our country is being run by a bunch of high school kids who have the attention span of a gnat.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#7)
    by profmarcus on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 07:02:35 AM EST
    but condi says... Let's starve Hamas into submission in a post on juan cole's weblog, Gilbert Achcar, author of Eastern Cauldron (New York: Monthly Review Press, 2004) and The Clash of Barbarisms, describes u.s. history vis a vis islamic fundamentalism thusly...
    The story of Washington's relation with Islamic fundamentalism is the most striking modern illustration of the sorcerer's apprenticeship.
    it's an excellent post and gives a great deal of background on how, for instance, hamas swept into power in the palestinian elections this past week... he also issued this caution...
    Any attempt by the U.S. and the European Union to starve the Palestinians into submission by interrupting the economic aid that they grant them would be disastrous for both humanitarian and political reasons and should be opposed most vigorously.
    well, gosh and golly if miss condi hasn't gone and suggested precisely that...
    The United States wants other nations to cut off aid to a Hamas-led Palestinian government, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said ahead of an international strategy session on Mideast peace prospects. Rice ruled out any U.S. financial assistance to a Hamas government. Humanitarian help to the Palestinians, many of whom are poor and unemployed, is likely on a "case-by-case basis," Rice said Sunday. She indicated that the administration would follow through on aid promised to the current, U.S.-backed Palestinian government led by President Mahmoud Abbas.
    Visit my blog: And, yes, I DO take it personally

    "Our first response: "We don't deal with terrorists." But what happens when an organization whose name is often associated with terrorism suddenly gains respectability? Why should our first response to the election be relabelling Hamas as a terrorist organization when it holds a majority of the legislative seats in Palestine?" That's how Neville Chamberlain felt about it. Worked out quite well for him, don't you think?

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#9)
    by John Mann on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 07:33:44 AM EST
    All aid should be cut of until the renounce terrorism and agree that Israel exists.
    And all aid should be cut off to Israel until it renounces terrorism and agrees that Palestine exists. Israel should also apologize for slaughtering countless thousands of Palestinians while driving them from their land since 1946.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 07:39:24 AM EST
    profmarcus - Can you tell me why we should be feeding people who are our sworn enemies? Their religious, social and political system has brought them to this point. I see no sane reason for us to keep on supporting it. In fact, had we not, the current situation would not exist. The Heretik - If you want to personalize this situation, I point out that Clinton arranged for a grand summit and Arafat got 90% what he wanted, and rejected it. At that point we should have just said. OK, we are done with you. Do what you will, because that us what you do anyway. Now. Before anyone starts talking about "nuances" and the various groups involved, remember that they all have the same goal. Destroy Israel and attack the west. But Clinton didn't, and Bush didn't and SOS Rice has demonstrated that she has the same lack of understanding.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 07:42:23 AM EST
    If we want peace in the Middle East.....
    That is the big question. The noecon philosophy is against peace. No, really, they believe it not a good thing and war is better. Strauss said it and wolfe et al are with that program. If you look at the situation in Iran, They offered help in tracking down OBL after 9/11. The leader then was more like a Jimmy Carter compared to what they recently elected. The offer was turned down flatly and we threw in some war inspiring rhetoric calling them the axis of evil. Same with Iraq. Even though those who see how things have backfired, most attribute it to gross incompetence. It looks like the neocons failure to happen. Enemies, bent on the annihilation of America actually strengthen the neocons fascist grip on America. The recent election in Palestine also follows the trend. The palestinians have been the most secular of all the arab people in the Mid-east. Only 6% were allowed to vote and they elected a fundamentalist Islamic party to rule. I see a pattern developing and it looks like Peace is not part of it. All Bush's imperial claims are based on protecting America, a nation at war. How does peace help that? The WH has little incentive in achieving peace as it would weaken their power and inhibit Americans from giving up their civil liberties, as there would be no reason for giving up such a fundamental American principal.

    Hamas now has to decide whether it will lay aside its policy of attacking Israel at all opportunities in favor of governing the palestinians (unlikely, but remotely possible in some alternate universe), ignore its new-found obligations and continue attacking Israel, or attempt to both govern and attack Israel. Problem is, the first requires a level of political responsibility it probably does not have, as well as a real committment to its own people w hich it has never shown, the second leaves it nothing more than a terrorist group and makes it clear to even the palestinians that it can do nothing but kill them, and the third would be an open declaration of war on Israel by the PA, which would most likely result in a clear and decisive war that Hamas would lose. We don't have to do anything except stay out of Israel's way for a change.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#13)
    by John Mann on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 08:00:40 AM EST
    Now. Before anyone starts talking about "nuances" and the various groups involved, remember that they all have the same goal. Destroy Israel and attack the west.
    Hamas wants to attack the west? Could you be a little more specific, Jim, or are you just making this up?

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 08:15:08 AM EST
    John, Does Hamas declaring that Isreal has not right to exist and their open support of suicide bombers not equate into attacking the west? The leading female canidate for Hamas has sent (2) of her own sons "proudly" to be suicide bombers and says she'd be proud if her other sons would follow. That sends a pretty clear message. That being said Hamas was just as suprised to win. Now they have to put up or shut up. For Isreal this election serves one clear purpose. No longer do they have to deal with a "legitimate" government that was either supporting terrorism or to weak to stop it. Now the governments motives and actions will be out in the open. Certain people will want to believe that Hamas has noble motives but if they start supporting suicide bombers again they won't be able to hide behing an inaffective government since they will be the government.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 08:19:14 AM EST
    Squeaky - The only offer I remember came from the Taliban who said they would turn him over to a neutral country for trial. Actually, this is from the CSM and makes the opposite case about Iran.
    It is not possible to independently corroborate the Saudi chef's story, nor to know his motives for speaking. He may prefer American prisons to those of his captors here. But the detailed picture he offers of bin Laden's last days in Tora Bora, and his possible escape to Iran, correspond with accounts from previous Monitor interviews with other bin Laden associates. It also fits recent US concerns that Iran is harboring Al Qaeda refugees. "There isn't any doubt in my mind but that the porous border between Iran and Afghanistan has been used for Al Qaeda and Taliban to move into Iran," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told "ABC This Week" on Sunday. "We have any number of reports that Iran has been permissive and allowed transit through their country of Al Qaeda."
    Do you have a link?

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#16)
    by pigwiggle on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 08:43:28 AM EST
    Hamas, weren't these the folks that were dancing I the streets of Ramallah as Trade Center 1 and 2 came down? Anyway, that ugliness aside ... The big four won't deal with terrorists, but they will deal with Hamas after they renounce violence and accept Israel's right to exist. Will it happen? I don't know, it depends on how much the Palestinians will miss the foreign aid. My guess is they won't notice, maybe a few less Fata mansions on the beach. What really struck me this week was the juxtaposition of the left's schadenfreund at seeing the execs thrown by their own petard of democracy and the absolute terror and sadness of Palestinian pundits and politicos. Hamas could renounce violence, accept Israel, and provide a corruption free open government. Or, we will see pervasive and bloody violence between Hamas radicals and the predominantly Fata security forces, all while Israel continues to isolate the territories physically and economically. Hope you folks enjoy this show as much as you enjoyed the execs backpedaling.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 08:53:17 AM EST
    Israel killed more Palestinian children last week ( a nine year old girl, and an 11 year old buy in separate incidents) than Hamas killed israaelis all of last year. Who put the taliban in power? Who just released female iraqis last week to secure the release of a journalist? Who sold arms and WMDs to saddam? Who sold arms iranians to secure the release of hostages? Which side is the terrorists again?

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 09:14:34 AM EST
    Good point Sailor. Terrorist is a word that describes an enemy and is wholly dependent on ones point of view. Clearly one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. It is used though it is as an absolute term, something that everyone one in their right mind would agree on, like the word water. No one would argue that water is not water. Sadly the descriptive noun "terrorist" is not as clear as "water". Ironically the word is invoked to make people afraid and so one can easily make the case that scaring people with the word is in fact being a terrorist.

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#19)
    by swingvote on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 09:37:48 AM EST
    I doubt very much that anyone would call people who blow up buses filled with innocent civilians, many of them children, "freedom fighters". And what does it mean to "Negoiate" with anyone anyway? Is that a new term Bush coined recently?

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 10:01:09 AM EST
    justpaul, what about people who from high above, at little danger to themselves, dorp missles in order to blow up house's with innocent people, women and children included. Collateral damage I suppose?

    Re: "We Don't Negoiate with Terrorists"; But We're (none / 0) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 10:02:43 AM EST
    And what does it mean to "Negoiate" with anyone anyway? Is that a new term Bush coined recently? New to him, maybe. Less confrontation and more cooperation from the imperium. Then the support for terrorism will evaporate. Otherwise it's perpetual war. Bush is terrorizing the US with his lies and wars.

    Now that Hamas is in power, Israel has an opportunity for true and lasting peace. You have a monumental shift in this conflict. Up until this time, Israel has been fighting scantily organized groupings of individual people, women and children trowing stones at their tanks. Political co