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The Immorality of Torture

by TChris

Writing in Christianity Today, Prof. David Gushee explains why torture is always wrong. He calls on his fellow Christians to stand up to the Bush administration on one of the profound moral issues of our time.

It is past time for evangelical Christians to remind our government and our society of perennial moral values, which also happen to be international and domestic laws. As Christians, we care about moral values, and we vote on the basis of such values. We care deeply about human-rights violations around the world. Now it is time to raise our voice and say an unequivocal no to torture, a practice that has no place in our society and violates our most cherished moral convictions.

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  • Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 11:13:57 AM EST
    It is past time for evangelical Christians to remind our government and our society of perennial moral values, which also happen to be international and domestic laws.
    AAAAAAAAmen! (can I get a witness?)

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#2)
    by scribe on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 11:25:01 AM EST
    Paging Reverends Dobson and Roberston. Please pick up the white courtesy phone for this message.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 11:30:13 AM EST
    Don't push Robertson. He'll call out a hit on you.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 01:45:43 PM EST
    They don't give a sh... about anyone but themselves, and fetuses (feti?). Torture? No biggie, if the leader advocating it can get RvW overturned. Moral Values? Sure! Keep gays from getting married! That's moral, right? These people are textbook defs of hypocricy. Preaching one thing, then supporting a gov't that does just the opposite. There's special place in hell for these pompous, phony blowhards.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 01:46:36 PM EST
    AAAmen!

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#6)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 01:54:27 PM EST
    Iran is going to nuke Israel? Dosnt Israel have a few more nukes than Iran - or didnt you know that? JHC.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#7)
    by jen on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 01:56:37 PM EST
    uh... Joseph? so? Torture is wrong. Religious leaders have been saying this all along. They have been saying that using nukes is wrong since the 40s. Are you implying that since you personally have not seen the topic discussed here on talk left that torture is ok??????

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#8)
    by roy on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 02:24:34 PM EST
    I warn you against openly criticizing the religious right. They don't call them 'right-wing death squads' for nothing.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 02:43:45 PM EST
    Joseph, Talk to Iran. Engage Iran. Try to change Iran by changing ourselves in relation to Iran. How's that?

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 02:44:09 PM EST
    arghh!!! last comment by Dadler.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 05:26:31 PM EST
    Who's "they," 129? I'm very happy that evangelicals who are not rt-wing nuts are making themselves heard.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#12)
    by Johnny on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 05:45:08 AM EST
    Come on guys, Iran is pure evil with no other intent than to rule the world with an iron fist and 47 dollars. We reap what we sow, and our policies in the middle-east in the 40's and 50's are biting us on the a$$ now, sorry, that's the way it is. We can either nuke them into glass or attempt to patch things up non-aggressively. All this chest puffing by wrong-winger chickenhawks isn't going to do a thing, it hasn't for 60 years, why would it be different now? Time for a different approach. It wasn't torture, it was frathouse pranks and I for one feel safer, freer, and stupider for having voted for at least one of the people in the hosue who have come out in support of treatinghuman beings like disposable diapers. It is refreshing, I guess, to have religious figures that are not typical wrong-winger, assasination advocates comeout and decry the current administrations attempts to bring us back into the middle ages. My guess is the bushies will pander to the fear element again and start ringing the terror alert bells sometime between now and November. And then say: "See? If we hadn't stuffed that guy into a sleeping bag and then sat on him until he stopped breathing, Mt. Rushmore would have been stolen by Swahili seperatists!"

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 07:46:03 AM EST
    Joseph says: ignoring little things like Iran wanting to obtain a nuke and use it to destroy Israel. I haven't heard a leftist solution to that There is a question we encourage business owners and sales and customer service people to ask themselves everyday in business coaching and customer relations and sales training workshops, to help develop and encourage responsibility and accountability:
    "If I'm not getting the result I want, then what am I doing to get the result I'm getting?"
    Dadler says: Joseph, Talk to Iran. Engage Iran. Try to change Iran by changing ourselves in relation to Iran. ...exactly.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:01:52 AM EST
    There are two articles that shed some light on the idiotic decision by Bush to demonize Iran, It backfired big time and now we have a big problem not dissimilar to how monkeybrain blew it in Iraq. Cobban and Rozen

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:06:56 AM EST
    Another very good one here also.
    We are present in most of the military briefings of the U.S. in Afghanistan and Iraq. As soon as we see that it is imminent we hit them and hit them hard... Whether the U.S. or Israel attacks us, we will consider it as Israeli attack since we know how much power they have over the U.S. political and decision-making system." If the attack happens, that will trigger the nuclear efforts of Iran.


    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:13:16 AM EST
    As far as I am concerned this qualifies as torture and is certainly a violation of the Geneva Convention.
    According to documents sprung by the ACLU, the US military in Iraq sometimes kidnaps the wives of suspected guerrillas as a way of pressuring them to turn in their husbands or of getting the husbands to turn themselves in.
    Cole

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:15:43 AM EST
    this qualifies as torture Also as psychological terrorism...

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:29:45 AM EST
    Gosh GW has finally aligned with Iran and Cuba in a recent UN vote. Guess that dictators have stuff in common even if they are sworn enemies. OK to torture the fags, they are sub-human anyway. Dobson must have loved this one.

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 11:38:04 AM EST
    Why should Iran need nukes when their new neighbors have 10,000 of them, and have used atomic bombs in the past?

    Re: The Immorality of Torture (none / 0) (#20)
    by Johnny on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 09:32:24 AM EST
    Iran knows full well what they are doing. Egging us into a war they know they have no hope of winning. They seem to be willing to become martyrs, for whatever cause it is they are embracing. I don't think even Dubya is stupid enough to invade Iran right now, then again... I have a bad feeling he has not yet demonstrated the depths of his stupidity. FWIW, I am all in favor of invading every country in the middle east, absolute and total annihilation of a culture is one of only two ways to guarantee a reasonable peace. The other is leave them the hell alone. Which is it going to be?