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Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Detainees

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 05:22:53 PM EST
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Bump and Update: Unbelievable. The Senate today passed Lindsay Graham's amendment, 49 to 42 barring detainees at Guantanamo and others declared by the Executive Branch to be enemy combatants from seeking judicial review of the legality of their detentions.

Democrats indicated they may try to kill or change the provision before the Senate votes on the overall bill next week. Five Democrats sided with 44 Republicans in voting for the provision.

Who are the five Democrats who voted with Republicans?

Conrad, N.D.; Landrieu, La.; Lieberman, Conn.; Nelson, Neb.; Wyden, Ore.

As I said below, this is an end-run around the Supreme Court's decision in Rasul v. Bush which held Guantanamo detainees have the right to challenge the legality of their detentions.

**********
Original Post: Nov. 9, 9:52 am

Breaking: Senator Lindsay Graham is introducing an Amendment to the defense appropriations bill pending in the Senate (S. 1042) that would strip those designated by the Administration as enemy combatants of the ability to seek habeas review in federal courts. This is an end-run around the Supreme Court's decision in Rasul v. Bush which held Guantanamo detainees have the right to challenge the legality of their detentions.

According to Graham's talking points for the bill (which I received by e-mail) his amendment would prohibit detainees from using the court to challenge:

  • The legality of their detentions
  • The propriety of returning detainees to their home countries
  • Adequacy of medical care at Guantanamo
  • Quality of the food
  • Speed of mail delivery
  • Allotment of exercise time and other conditions of confinement

You can read the text of his amendment here. (pdf) (scroll down, the first page is blank.)

This would effectively end all litigation brought on behalf of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, as well as any future litigation on behalf of those imprisoned at the CIA secret detention camps. This bill is intended to have retroactive application.

Please call your senators as soon as possible and urge them to vote against the Graham amendment.

The Center for Constitutional Rights is urging bloggers to get the message out that Graham's amendment needs a swift defeat. Please, do your part.

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    Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Detainees | 58 comments (58 topical)
    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    "This bill is intended to have retroactive application." Why come the prohibition against ex post facto laws doesn't apply? Ed

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    I'll jump right on this a make sure big "DICK" Durbin knows I'm all for it! Giving our enemies access to our legal system is the grandaddy of all stupid ideas! Why is it you 'smart' people can't see that?

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    How do we know they are our enemies? Just take the gov'ts word for it? Need I remind you they lied about the war, they lied about torture, they lied about secret prisons, the lied about response to Katrina, they lied ... about everything.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#5)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    Giving our enemies access to our legal system is the grandaddy of all stupid ideas! Why is it you 'smart' people can't see that?
    Because we're too busy trying to guess who the next "enemy" will be that a law like this will apply to. Could be you.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    The Center for Constitutional Rights' action alert can be found here: link Please take a few minutes to do this. This amendment could be very, very bad if it goes through.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    Giving our enemies access to our legal system is the grandaddy of all stupid ideas!
    Of course it is. Anyone who would even give such an idea the most minor consideration would be an utter fool, or insane, or perhaps both. Why would anyone want to give this kind of power to Bush?

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Sailor... How do we know they are our enemies? Just take the gov'ts word for it? Unlike most of the BUSH haters out there, I tend to give my Government the benefit of the doubt. In an imperfect world mistakes are made, but I'm pretty confident most of the people being held by the US are not our friends. Need I remind you they lied.... Yadda Yadda Yadda,... yes that tired old left talking point... It's all BS. The lies are all on the left. I you wish, I can reprint documents from just about every major Dem agreeing with Bush that Saddam had weapons and needed to be stopped. Are they all liars too? How soon we forget! What are the lies about Katrina? The fact that the State & Local Governmenst screwed up big time? That's not a lie! Are all you guys here to just parrot whatever you hear on leftie blogs?

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#9)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Giving our enemies access to our legal system is the grandaddy of all stupid ideas! Why is it you 'smart' people can't see that?
    BB, I hereby declare you an enemy of the state. You are to report to the nearest secret prison and ready yourself to be extraordinarily rendered. You have no rights. You have no legal recourse. You have been accused, and if that is enough for your little war-mongering chimp-boy, it is enough for me. Salem, anyone?

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Quaker.. Because we're too busy trying to guess who the next "enemy" will be. That's easy...anyone who tries to blow us up & kill our citizens. This isn't Rocket science. Could be you I'll take my chances.. thank you. Johnny... BB, I hereby declare you an enemy of the state. hahaha ... Too bad your "the sky is falling" rant isn't even close to what is happening. I'm very confident that if you don't take up arms against the US... give money to terror organizations or Governments.. etc.... you have nothing to fear. Nice try though. Try your loonie lib scare tactics somewhere else. You have no legal recourse. LOL..see, that's where your arguement falls on it's face. Unlike the people you are so concerned with, I am a legal US citizen and therefore have the right to the US legal system... again...nice try though. Keep believing the lie....

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Unlike most of the BUSH haters out there, I tend to give my Government the benefit of the doubt.
    And don't you go quoting me any evidence to the contrary, no matter how well authenticated, no matter how reputable your sources, no matter how damning the details. Ah ain't gonna listen. Ah ain't gonna look. Uh course they's right. Mah country right or wrong. They's the gummint. What dontchyoo git boy?

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    You're a bigger moron than anticipated. We don't just have the Constitution to contend with, but a vast body of international law that we've agreed to follow. By doing this, we not only run the risk of running counter to those laws, but endanging our relationships with every single one of those countries. We're on shaky enough ground there, already. In the past, we haven't had a problem showing that we can apply to others what we do to ourselves. We've tried and jailed (or set free, if the circumstances dictated it) foreigners in this country without ever, ever having to muddy the principles laid out in the Constitution. The Constitution isn't just a basis of our laws, it is a statement of who we are as a nation and in our interactions with other nations. A real conservative would ask himself: Why change what has worked for us, perhaps not perfectly or every time, put well and overall? There is no need to change any of this. Doing so will have consequences too many are not prepared to face.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#13)
    by Punchy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    I dont get it. First, the courts and Congress has already allowed Bush to declare anyone they want an "enemy-combatant". Now, they're attempting to remove any ability for one to prove one's NOT. Ok, is this a logical conclusion: Anyone Bush doesn't like can be suddenly declared an "enemy", then locked up, and have NO recourse to prove otherwise? Am I crazy, or would this be a dictatorship???

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    edgar... And don't you go quoting me any evidence to the contrary, That's just it... most of the drivel you cite as "evidence" is nothing more than left wing loonie propoganda. This Government (all of it...left & right) had "evidence" that Saddam had WMD's... but you all on the left now choose to call Bush a liar... not taking any responsibility on your part for this war. Dan Rather had "evidence" about Bush's service record...etc..etc.. Get the point now? Aquaria... but a vast body of international law that we've agreed to follow. Show me in any "international law" we signed that says we have to give enemies of this country access to our courts? I'm waiting...and don't bring up the Geneva Conventions... they don't apply here. A real conservative would ask himself: Why change what has worked for us What has worked for us is doing what needs to be done to win the war. I'm not wanting to change a thing... we are doing nothing different now then we did in WWII. You are the ones that want change. All of a sudden our enemies need our lawyers. They need to be coddled & treated like citizens... One more example on how the libs are ruining this country.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    "Unlike the people you are so concerned with, I am a legal US citizen" so are several folks detained as 'enemy combatants.'

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#16)
    by legion on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    BB- Try harder.
    It's all BS. The lies are all on the left. I you wish, I can reprint documents from just about every major Dem agreeing with Bush that Saddam had weapons and needed to be stopped.
    Go ahead. I believe you'll find that the reason many people agreed that Saddam had WMDs was because they believed the bogus intel the Bush admin showed them. What you have here is a circular argument... The CIA had already determined long ago that the intel Bush and Cheney were basing their war run-up on was complete crap. Both Bush and Cheney knew the info they were using was wrong, yet they still presented it to the public, and Congress, and our allies, as though it were true - that's generally called a lie. And it's why giving him the 'benefit of the doubt' as you put it will never happen again.
    You have no legal recourse. LOL..see, that's where your arguement falls on it's face. Unlike the people you are so concerned with, I am a legal US citizen and therefore have the right to the US legal system... again...nice try though.
    Try reading the original post, BooB. This applies to everyone, citizen or otherwise. If you're declared an 'enemy combatant', you have no recourse to any legal system outside the military tribunals.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    most of the drivel you cite as "evidence" is nothing more than left wing loonie propoganda
    Republicans on Bush

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    This is nothing but bad. The gulag is back and looking very American. Unlike BB, I trust my government where and when it has EARNED my trust. In the arena of "secret prisons" and "enemy combatants" I have no reason to believe my government is even marginally competent. With all the malfeasance surrounding the buying and selling of "prisoners", tribal grudges being settled by turning someone in as a "terrorist", it's a fools errand to think there isn't an unacceptable rate of incarcerated innocents. It's equally foolish to run rhetorical interference for this utterly unimaginative administration and its hopelessly inept, murderous, and ultimately self-defeating "war" on "terror". They haven't the logic on which to underpin any rhetoric. It's all hollow.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#19)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    This is beyond smart vs stupid, this is to the point of good vs evil. I am glad to see only one evil person here

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    You have no legal recourse. LOL..see, that's where your arguement falls on it's face. Unlike the people you are so concerned with, I am a legal US citizen and therefore have the right to the US legal system... again...nice try though. Keep believing the lie....
    Wake up and smell the Patriot Act

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Roger... Yeah...I'm evil because I don't by into the propoganda BS. (Can you say Lemmings?) I'm also a biggot (according to La LA Paulie) because I think people that live here should speak English. LOL...what a terrible person I am! I'm sure I'm at a lower level in all your eyes than the terrorists who want to kill you but you all seemed bent on protecting? But none of your priorities are out of whack....but hey...just slander and mock your own countrymen and praise those that want us both dead... Hey...it's the liberal way! Bill from D... Wake up and smell the Patriot Act Anybody you know in jail from this? Didn't think so. When that happens...let me know...then I'll worry.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    I'd rather be an enemy of the state than an enemy of human rights and basic human decency, like Sen. Graham. When the state becomes the enemy of human rights, any patriot should consider his or herself an enemy of the state. BB...Safety before Freedom? That's not the BB I thought I knew. Habeas, IMO, is a an inalienable right of all human beings, no matter how evil they may be.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Anybody you know in jail from this? Didn't think so. When that happens...let me know...then I'll worry.
    Guess you will never have to worry because under the patriot act you will not find out who is arrested. It is kept secret in order to protect national security.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Posted by BB: "...anyone who tries to blow us up & kill our citizens. This isn't Rocket science." • Explain to us why Bush hasn't punished Saudi Arabia for the 15 hijackers who attacked our country. • Just our citizens? What about the terrorists who have killed 130,000 Iraqis using US weapons? • Explain how the Supreme Court with a Bushie majority failed to understand 'rocket science' when it ordered review?

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#25)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:56 PM EST
    BB
    I tend to give my Government the benefit of the doubt. In an imperfect world mistakes are made, but I'm pretty confident most of the people being held by the US are not our friends.
    Actually you contradict yourself. Last time I looked, our legal system was part of our government. So if you don't trust our legal system, you really don't trust our govenment. In our system of justice, people are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. In this particular case, not only have they not been proven guilty of anything, but they haven't even been charged with any crime. Now if you believe in taking away the rights of detainees because you trust the federal government so much, then shouldn't you also be advocating that the these same legal rights be taken away from us as well? You can't have it both ways. I trust the government when they take away the rights of others, but I want to keep rights like habeas for us because you can't trust the government. After all, it is the same government,isn't it? Our founding fathers created a system of checks and balances on government because they didn't believe in giving those that ran our government the benefit of the doubt. They believed that in an imperfect world, without checks to governmental power, such as the right to habeas review, governments would tend to abuse their power and become tyrannical.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#26)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:56 PM EST
    BB cannot wait for the police state. Only then will he feel safe and free.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#27)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:56 PM EST
    BB, You believe in torture because you do not believe the propoganda? That's a laugh, you believe in torture because you DO believe all the lies that W feeds you. But since you want to torture people, you are, per se, evil. You have no credibility on ANY issue. Bye Bye, I no longer feel a need to listen to anything that you ever have to say, on any topic. Evil Mo-fo. If it was up to me, you'd be locked up for the public's safety. Have a nice life.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:56 PM EST
    kdog.... Habeas, IMO, is a an inalienable right of all human beings, no matter how evil they may be. We are not in complete disagreement here...however, it is my opinion that in time of war, the first priority is to get any information possible that might save American lives. Many prisoners have been released and I'm sure many more will be once we find they have nothing to offer. BB...Safety before Freedom? What good is 'freedom' if the country no longer exists. First things first... we are at war now and like other wars in the past... some things have to take a temporary back seat so we can take care of business. I'd rather have a few pissed off people, because we searched them a little harder than others, than to have the city of Chicago blown away... I guess that's just one of my quirks? All those 'free' people in Chi. wouldn't enjoy it very much dead! It's all about whether we believe enemies of the US should have access to our legal system...I say NO. Can you imagine nazi soldiers suing the US in our courts because we mistreated them in WWII? Makes no sense at all, but that could happen if libs get their way.

    Re: Senate Passes Amendment to End Habeas for Deta (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:57 PM EST
    Squeaky... Guess you will never have to worry because under the patriot act you will not find out who is arrested Not true. La La Paulie.... • Explain to us why Bush hasn't punished Saudi Arabia for the 15 hijackers who attacked our country I can't... and am just as frustrated as you. How would you 'punish' them? What about the terrorists who have killed 130,000 Iraqis using US weapons? We are at war and (unlike you libs who hate America) I don't see our troops as terrorists. Plus... your 130K number is false. Terrorists in Iraq have killed more civilians than our troops have. Explain how the Supreme Court with a Bushie majority failed to understand 'rocket science' when it ordered review? Review what...? Please speak in full sentences and not code. The Supreme Court doesn't have a 'Bushie" majority. John Horse.... So if you don't trust our legal system, you really don't trust our government.