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Indictment Day: Open Thread

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    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:28 PM EST
    As a republican and big Bush fan I must say that I'm ready for this to be over. Even though I think Joe Wilson is a liar, and even though I support the war if Rove or Libby commited a crime they should be prosecuted. However if Fitzgerald has a shaky case he shouldn't proceed or try and cut a deal Law & Order style. The amount of speculation and he said she said has gotten ridiculous and I'm ready to see some action from the parties actually involved. This will be an interesting day.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:28 PM EST
    Libby has probably been indicted. Rove most likely will be indicted, unless he has cut a deal, or maybe even given up Cheney to Fitgerald. Bush is shown up for what he really is: an ineffectual incompetent who is all packaging with "no substance, no backbone, no leadership". Bush's approval ratings are at the lowest they've ever been, even amongst republicans, and 53% of Americans now say that bringing the troops home from Iraq is more important than finishing the mission in that country. This is the first time that a majority of Americans have held that view. Cheney has been shown to have been witholding intelligence from the Senate Intelligence Committee. General William Odom has stated: When the president says he is staying the course, that makes me really afraid. For a leader has to know when to change course. Hitler did not change his course: rather he kept sending more and more troops to Stalingrad and they suffered more and more casualties. When the president says he is staying the course it reminds me of the man who has just jumped from the Empire State Building. Half-way down he says, I am still on course. Well, I would not want to be on course with a man who will lie splattered in the street. I would like to be someone who could change the course... Our invasion of Iraq has made it a homeland for al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups." --- I think that not only republicans and "big Bush fans" are ready for this to be over. This presidency has been an absolute debacle, right from the start.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:28 PM EST
    On the eve of what may well be the very first day of Fitzmas, I can't help but think back and remember Bush's promise to the American people that he would run an open and honest administration. These indictments will at least finally remove all doubt that Bush has broken his promise to the people who bought into his hollow words.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Pete Guither on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    TalkLeft readers will learn of rumors and announcements earlier that I will, due to my being two hours behind in the mountain time zone. ??? I thought the magic electrons with the internet data and television images moved faster than that? Actually, I think you've got it backwards. If it's announced at 10 am in Washington, DC, you'll hear about it at 8 am, so you'll have already known about it for two hours.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Settle down eager beavers. Bush is no where near dead. The Miers withdrawl was just the boost Bush needs. If Libby goes down then that will be bad but not deadly. Rove is the real deal and if he isn't indicted then Bush will live on. Ramrod a real conservative onto the court and the base is happy and his numbers go back up. Plus you can never underestimate the ability of the democrats to screw up opportunities. Bush was at a low point last year and you couldn't win any elections or gain ground. I predict the same in 2006. Tell me I'm wrong. don't just hope.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    et al - FNC reporting Rove ok, Libby will be indicted of misleading the GJ. Looks like it is over since the GJ can't be extended and it is unlikely anything will go to trial. IF, and that is a big IF, the above is correct the American people will see this, just as they did BJgate with Clinton, as what it is. Politics. Pure and simple. Squeak - I read your rant, and was immediately reminded of your:
    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.
    (emphasis mine) Some things are worth bookmarking.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    edger - I am so sorry.... I can't tell you and Squeaky apart.. (sound of PPJ laughing)

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    oppps - Sorry Squeaky... (Laughter still in background.)

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    et al - On a serious note, when does Fitzgerald's term expire, and who would extend it? And what about that "cover" agent bit?

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Whizzy says:
    Some things are worth bookmarking.
    That's something I'd certainly agree with... TTFN, Whizzy.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Press conference at 2:00 pm EST

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    The Miers withdrawl was just the boost Bush needs Looks like it is over Wha?

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Whizzy? Here's something that should cheer you immensely today. Remote Control for Humans Being Tested Have a nice... errrrr... life? :)

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Wha? Just saying Bush's problem is not upsetting democrats. Like anyone these days you can't make the other side happy and not trying to make waves (Miers nomination) only makes you look week and encourages the other side. I'm not a fan of this but it's a reality. So the Miers withdrawel get Bush back in with his base who is upset with him on Katrina spending, overall spending and the recent nomination. If he nominates a McConnel or Brown (unlikely, I can only hope) then he brings his base back behind him and his numbers go up. 40% of the country will dislike him no matter what he does. 40% will like him no matter what he does. 10% are moderate and on the fence. 10% are hard core conservatives that need to be loved. God bless them

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    FNC reporting Now that's an oxymoron to begin the day with. As for your laughter:
    disorganized schizophrenia, [DSM-IV] a type that is characterized by frequent incoherence, marked loosening of associations, or grossly disorganized behavior and flat or grossly inappropriate affect and that does not meet the criteria for the catatonic type; associated features include extreme social withdrawal, grimacing, (1)mannerisms, (2)mirror gazing, inappropriate giggling, and (3)other unusual behavior.
    (1) Mannerisms: BTW, et al, I can't find it on the Internet so it's not real, is it?, b******* and moaning, misspellings due to Preview button becoming inoperative just at times when PPJ seems to become emotional, etc. (2) Any post with the card remora commenting in it. (3) Claims to know the intellectual ability and level of education in history, politics, etc. of people based solely on their posts, and has mentioned channelling favorably several times. You managed not to give in to your haw-haw problem for a whole three days , aka dim. That's real progress, so don't let a little backsliding get you down. TTFN, Whizzy.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Document dump at noon. We should know a lot then.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Roger - Did you see my question re the SP's term? DA - Let's see. Did you say anything about the subject? No, just attacked FNC and yours truly. Keep on trolling. Edger - Looks terrible. Why don't you go and demonstrate against the war and give the enemy hope? Keep on trolling.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Slado, tell the first Democratic majority in the Colorado State Assembly in 40 years that we didn't make any ground last year.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Jim, There seems to be a lot of confusion, but it really doesnt matter. Charge Libby. Try to get him to flip. Empanel a new GJ.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    TL, thanks for the coverage; even called into cspan while I was in Vegas a few weeks ago with some points I picked uo. Token sum on it's way in appreciation. Dunno how long it will take from here, though.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Darkly - Another personal attack. Really slow day in the tax prep biz?? Keep on trolling! BTW - It appears that there is no indictment re the outing of a covert agent. If so, I guess the CIA didn't know. Now, since they are the ones who pressed the charges, perhaps the Congress will get off its butt and investigate the CIA

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    Did anyone answer JimakaPPJ's question? As I understand it: Fitzgerald is not a "special prosecetor." He IS the prosecutor for the Justice Dept because both the AG (Ashcroft) and the deputy AG (? can't remember) both recused themselves - political closeness / conflict of interest. This 'grand jury' - their term is due to expire today (Oct 28th) at which time a new grand jury will be called. Same prosecutor - different Grand Jury from hereonin. That's my understanding. Clarification or cor-cor-(cough) corrections are uh, welcome (pfft! yeah-right).

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:30 PM EST
    On a more humorous note, here is the latest "DubyaSpeak":
    And so I've made some proposals to the Congress, proposals that work with how fast benefits will go up, proposals that said if you're in the -- a poor American, nothing is going to change for you. If you're a wealthy American, your benefits will grow, but at a slower rate. -- Wow, is that what he really meant to say? Washington, D.C., Oct. 26, 2005 Zawahiri writes that al Qaeda views Iraq as the place for the greatest battle. The terrorists regard Iraq as the central front in their war against humanity. And we must recognize Iraq as the central front in our war on terror. -- I wonder if Dubya has an idea as to what the genesis of this role for Iraq might have been... Washington, D.C., Oct. 25, 2005
    I guess "it's hard work" trying to talk, when the guy who usually operates your mouth is preoccupied with saving his own a**. ;)

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:30 PM EST
    Darkly - The fact that she was a classified employee does not make her a covert agent. If he could have indicted Libby for breaking that law, he would have. And given that a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich, the issue must be dead. BTW, boy, I don't stand in lines. Room service and First Class was made for me. edgey writes: Kitt - Thanks, but I think he is a special P.... with a defined term.. but I could be wrong... Anyone??
    I wonder if Dubya has an idea as to what the genesis of this role for Iraq might have been... Washington, D.C., Oct. 25, 2005
    I think so. He has carefully spelled out his strategy for the ME numerous times. Of course you are anti-war and anti-Bush so you want to ignore it. BTW - As OBL said, all OBL wants is for Moslems to be allowed to do as they desire, in the whole world.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:30 PM EST
    Yep. Pay no attention to the (possible -- innocent until proven guilty after all) criminals in OUR GOVERNMENT and start invoking Osama and those Evil Moslems [sic]. Guess what -- technically we believe in freedom of worship here. So our Constitution "wants is for Moslems to be allowed to do as they desire" in this country. So you'll have to be more specific about the Nefarious Things They're Planning. Just screaming "They're muslims, they must be evil!!!" doesn't cut it among thinking people. You want to talk about the terrorism going on in Iraq, or what leaders of Iran said, be our uninivited guest -- they are serious issues that are not going away, no matter what's happening in Washington. You don't bring anything to the table by using the Islamofascist bogeyman as a distraction, though. You know, countries are often destroyed from within, not by outside forces. The Bush administration is just doing its part to bring America to its knees. You want to talk about Osama? Well, Osama couldn't ask for a better partner!

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:30 PM EST
    Darkly - I haven't said what he will do, I just noted that he didn't indict Libby, so I'm guessing he has decided that she wasn't a covert agent. i.e. If she wasn't, then she wasn't. No law broken. Hope that's not too hard for you to grasp. Could I be wrong? Sure. We'll just have to wait and see, eh? Elite? Did I mention the truffles??? Always on the Club floor? Complimentary breakfast? Me? Heavens.

    Re: Indictment Day: Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:30 PM EST
    webmacher - Happy to help.
    REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?..... REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ? BIN LADIN.....The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world... the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.
    I don't think our constitution calls for that.