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Rita Open Thread

Here's an open thread on Hurricane Rita. Right now, it's headed either to Houston or New Orleans, according to the tv news. Mostly, the news stations are killing time, waiting for the main event, which may not happen until late Friday or Saturday. Since I have to get back to court, here's a place for you all to discuss it.

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  • Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Am I crazy for hoping it goes east towards NO? It's all rubble anyway...

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    LWW-not crazy just meanspirited

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Here's a place for "you all" to discuss it. TL,you've traveled a long way from New Rochelle I see. Yeeehaaaaw!

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Squeaky... I can be more mean spirited than that... How about we hope it swings south to Mexico? That way maybe 100,000 or so illegals will go home and gets jobs there rebuilding?

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Masses flee Hurricane Rita - TVNZ - Sept. 23 - 35 minutes ago
    The National Hurricane Centre said the path of Rita, with top winds dropping slightly to 265 kph and is now a Category 4 storm, had shifted toward the north. It appeared to be headed toward Galveston and Houston, the nation's fourth largest city and centre of the US oil industry. Exxon Mobil said it was closing the biggest US oil refinery in Baytown, Texas and another in Beaumont, 144 km east.


    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Posted by LWW: "Am I crazy for hoping it goes east towards NO? It's all rubble anyway..." No, that just makes you an immoral idiot. Rubble is loose material held down to the earth by gravity. A Class 5 hurricane has 165 MPH winds. Gravity has NOTHING on a Class 5 hurricane. Rubble flying at 165 MPH is a FAR more destructive force than the wind by itself. You don't really take people's lives seriously, do you? BB calls his racism 'mean spirited.' Which shows he doesn't understand the meaning of the word 'mean' in that phrase. It means 'small-minded,' and not 'nasty' as he seems to think. A racist seeks out the nastiness they need to promote their hateful ideas, but in this case, BB is just being inferior-minded.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Hopefully, Rita will shoot straight north and hit NO as it is already evacuated and has already been devasted (as opposed to Texas, which will suffer massive damage). This would be the best outcome, in my opinion. And what is racist about wanting illegal aliens to go home, as stated by BB, regardless of the reason? Nothing.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    How about we hope by some miracle it dies down and loses strength before hitting land?

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Best outcome by far -- and i like the positive thinking.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    BB, If you're gonna use irony on the Left, you have to label it clearly, so they can tell. Witness Paul in LA's reaction to your prev comment. LWW, No, you're not being a bad person. N.O. is much more evacuated, at present, than is Houston. Then again, Houston is a little higher up and further inland, IIRC, so maybe it's six of one, half a dozen of the other, as to which landfall would do the least damage. Economically, N.O. would prob be the cheaper landfall, since it's gotta be rebuilt anyway; in terms of lives, tho ... who knows which path would ultimately prove the least harmful? Anyway, I'm expecting TX to do a better job than LA did, which should help. Already we're seeing a visible improvement, to say the least.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Posted by hannityiscrazy: "Hopefully, Rita will shoot straight north and hit NO as it is already evacuated" Playing cards with people's lives, and you don't even see how callous and ugly you are doing it. Here's a clue: Scientists have recorded the first evidence that the Gulf Stream is slowing down. The effect of that Global Warming event is that major hurricanes in the Gulf Coast will become a constant reminder of how diddling and fiddling is KILLING people. "And what is racist about wanting illegal aliens to go home, as stated by BB, regardless of the reason? Nothing." How many of those so-called illegals have put utter incompetents into emergency relief agencies? Attacking the poor is the act of a coward. The real problem is not illegal immigration -- it's failure to uphold the Oaths and Duties of Office by the Arse you Lick.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Rain returns to hard-hit New Orleans as Rita takes aim at Gulf Coast - 30 minutes ago By Michelle Roberts ASSOCIATED PRESS 12:49 p.m. September 22, 2005 NEW ORLEANS – In a grim opening salvo from Hurricane Rita, rain began falling Thursday on New Orleans for the first time since Katrina laid waste to the city, and engineers rushed to shore up the broken levees for fear of another ruinous round of flooding.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    What can you say to someone as embittered as Paul from LA? Nothing, his purgatory is his life.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    kdog has the right thing to hope for, but from the way it's looking, that's a pipedream. I think what we can reasonably hope for is that injuries are kept to an extreme minimum whether it hits LA or TX. Last I heard Galveston was 90% evacuated. I guess in a free country that's good news, but it still really makes me wonder what the hell is up with that other 10%.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    The other 10% saw that the taxpayers will pay for any harm they endure by staying, so it's just not worth dealing with traffic to escape. (70% sarcasm)

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    glanton: it still really makes me wonder what the hell is up with that other 10%. Oh, jeeze... I hope it's not people who have no way of getting themselves out, all over again...

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Yeah...it is a pipedream glanton. We are truly powerless against the might of mother nature...I figured hoping for the storm to die down is better than hoping for it to go towards one place or another. It doesn't feel right to wish it on one place over another. All we can do is evacuate and cross our fingers that loss of life is minimal, as you said. IMO and a little OT, storms like this are the reason man created god. It's hard to come to grips with the utter randomness of the destruction, it's easier to believe a boogeyman in the sky is doing it to smite us for one reason or another.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Paul in LA, 5000-8000 years ago, temps worldwide were a coupla degrees higher than they are today, yet the hurricane activity appears to have been lower. Sorry, no correlation to global warmth there. That's why scientistic evidence is shifting elsewhere. A better observation: the odds of two or more large Atlantic hurricanes making landfall in a year are almost doubled when La Nina is in effect, aot El Nino. Also, hurricane cycles are quite long-term, over decades at least. IIRC - tho not from personal memory, sorry - the 1940s were particularly bad. kdog, Pipedream or not, I share your sentiments. Even if landfall of some sort is inevitable, not all stormpaths are the same. Here's hoping Rita takes one of the less destructive ones. And, to end with a hopeful factoid, tho again just from memory, Atlantic/Gulf hurricanes tend to drop in intensity a tad shortly before landfall as they pass over shallower and cooler water in the northern end of the Gulf. Let's hope. Every bit helps.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    ras, if you had any idea what implications there were to the Gulf Stream slowing or collapsing, you wouldn't be the fool you are. Posted by LWW: "What can you say to someone as embittered as Paul from LA? Nothing, his purgatory is his life." "What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his immortal soul?" -- Some Guy You are HILARIOUS. Racists who preach about purgatory -- my favorite kind of dead men. Used to be that Christianity saved some of you. No longer -- you don't LISTEN. You don't HEAR. You don't even SUSPECT. Too bad for you.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    5000-8000 years ago, temps worldwide were a coupla degrees higher than they are today, yet the hurricane activity appears to have been lower
    This I want to see a reference for.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Due to this semi-random nature of weather, it is wrong to blame any one event such as Katrina specifically on global warming - and of course it is just as indefensible to blame Katrina on a long-term natural cycle in the climate. Yet this is not the right way to frame the question. As we have also pointed out in previous posts, we can indeed draw some important conclusions about the links between hurricane activity and global warming in a statistical sense
    ......snip
    we can draw some conclusions about hurricanes more generally. In particular, the available scientific evidence indicates that it is likely that global warming will make - and possibly already is making - those hurricanes that form more destructive than they otherwise would have been. The key connection is that between sea surface temperatures (we abbreviate this as SST) and the power of hurricanes.......
    LINK

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Here's an informative introduction to climate change. Please read it before you pop off on what it was like 8,000 years ago. (Hey, I thought that there weren't any people before, say, 6,000 years ago.) Be sure not to miss the part about the earth's temperatures getting warmer (and the beautiful chart about storms becoming more severe).

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    That way maybe 100,000 or so illegals will go home and gets jobs there rebuilding?
    Yeah and they probably will be paid as much or more for it than Bush will allow our workers to be paid in New Orleans.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Here's the latest track forecast. As of 6 pm it was predicted that Houston would be on the west side of the storm, which would spare them the storm surge as winds would be offshore. Beaumont would take a direct hit. The other problem will be inland flooding as the storm stalls across east Texas for 3 days after making landfall.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Ernesto: the latest track forecast That track looks like it puts the right-front quadrant right on top of Louisiana... Not good. Inside Hurricanes
    ..imagine yourself standing in the very center of the eye of the hurricane, facing the shore toward which the hurricane is moving. Everything to your right and in front of you is considered the right-front quadrant. Everything behind you on your right side is the right-rear quadrant. The same holds for the left-front and left-rear quadrants. Hurricane quadrants are significant when it comes to damage potential. Generally, the right-front quadrant causes the most destruction at the coast.


    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Paul in LA, Um, learning about the correlations, or lack thereof, between air temperature, ocean temperature, and hurricanes makes one a racist? Sure, buddy, great pt. You should mention it to the doc. Desertswine, Perhaps somewhere on the site you linked there is the evidence of which you speak. It's a big site, could you be just a l-i-t-t-l-e more precise? Thx. Note that for industrialization to be the culprit, you'd have to explain theh previous peaks in hurricanes that occurred in a pre-industrial age. Good luck. Soccerdad, Try here, for example. The methodology is also detailed there. The graph of temps is for Norway. You are welcome to dig out the data for other areas as you like (kinda hard to think that just Norway would heat up and nowhere else tho, so it seems a good proxy). Cheers.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    What a relief. Scott McClelland finally answers some questions. Must be because Rita is aiming for Bush's beloved Texas:
    MR. McCLELLAN: Good afternoon, everyone. I’d like to begin with an update on some of the hurricane preparations. As you know, Hurricane Rita is approaching the Texas coast, threatening to bring death and devastation to some of the President’s wealthiest and most powerful political supporters – as well as to ordinary residents of the greater Houston area, not all of whom are black. We want everyone to understand that we're taking this hurricane very, very seriously, and the federal government has already set the machinery in motion to delivery vital disaster recovery services .....
    billmon Today's press conference continues and Scotty actually answers some tough questions.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Gov Perry (R) is getting the Haleyseed Barbour treatment but if this is his idea of a well planned evacuation -- he claimed they could evacuate Houston in 24 hours --some people have been on the road longer than that already. A little less aren't the Republicans great would be a good thing

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    RAS I'm waiting for your reference to your comment on hurricanes 6000 years ago

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Here are the latest extremley detailed track maps: Hurricane Rita - Track with Interactive Images (MSNBC/Virtual Earth) More Hurricane Rita Maps from Perry-Castańeda Library Map Collection (University of Texas at Austin) here:

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    For those of you with PowerPoint installed, here is a very sobering NASA JSC Visual Impact of a Category 4 Storm on the Galveston Study Area: Galveston - Potential Impact of a Category 4 Hurricane on the Galveston Study Area (SpaceRef) [PowerPoint Slide Show]

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Looks like NO is getting the NE bands, the worst part. People in Houston will not be having fun, if a miss, it will be close. To all who dont believe that global warming has been established: are you really willing to take the chance if it MAY be right?

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    This is global warming, says environmental chief As Hurricane Rita threatens devastation, scientist blames climate change By Michael McCarthy, Environment Editor Published: 23 September 2005 Super-powerful hurricanes now hitting the United States are the "smoking gun" of global warming, one of Britain's leading scientists believes...

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Gee, it looks like no local evacuation plans are perfect.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Houston Texas Census and demographic information Profile of General Demographic Characteristics: 2000 Geographic Area: Houston city Total population 1,953,631 --- If 90% evacuated, that leaves 195,363 in the Houston area. Perspective: NOLA was 1.3 million - 80 evac'd before Katrina, leaving approx. 86,000

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    edger writes:
    one of Britain's leading scientists believes...
    Now, if he quote said, "can prove," we might have something of interest.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Good point Jim... Scientists generally use the word "believe" when a preponderance of observational data points to a likely conclusion. The word is not used in this context in the same sense the word "faith" is used. From the same article (link):
    A paper by US researchers, last week in the US journal Science, showed that storms of the intensity of Hurricane Katrina have become almost twice as common in the past 35 years. Although the overall frequency of tropical storms worldwide has remained broadly level since 1970, the number of extreme category 4 and 5 events has sharply risen. In the 1970s, there was an average of about 10 category 4 and 5 hurricanes per year but, since 1990, they have nearly doubled to an average of about 18 a year. During the same period, sea surface temperatures, among the key drivers of hurricane intensity, have increased by an average of 0.5C (0.9F).


    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    latest forcast from weather underground sounds like another big one:
    I believe we will see RITA .... as a CAT 4. ... the storm surge will be equal to that of CAT 5 hurricane. A tidal surge of 20-22 feet, with Port Arthur most vulnerable to catastrophic storm surge damage -- will likely cover a 20-30 mile stretch of coast from the point of landfall eastward, with 13-18 ft extending to 50-80 miles east of the point of landfall. Gale force winds extend out for over 200 miles from the center -- and gusts to gale force will reach over to the New Orleans area. A tidal storm surge of 4-8 feet will hit the Mississippi Delta region over to Grand Isle, LA.
    link

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Posted by ras: "Um, learning about the correlations, or lack thereof, between air temperature, ocean temperature, and hurricanes makes one a racist? Sure, buddy, great pt. You should mention it to the doc." You should mention it to your eye doctor. The term was addressed to LWW, who has exposed his racism and homophobia to a disgusting degree in the last few days. The slowing of the Gulf Stream will have PROFOUND effects on the British Isles, and W. Europe's weather. The cause is known: as I understand it the loss of icepack is reducing the amount of cold water sinking to produce the Gulf Stream effect. How many major hurricanes, droughts, failed ski regions, forest die-offs, and polution episodes do we all have to SUFFER while the Repubjesucrats and Bush diddle and fiddle and try to ignore? I'm betting that it's a real winner at the polls.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Adrazer - He can believe whatever he desires. But before we start paying much attention to him he needs to be able to prove his beliefs. That is the difference between science and religion.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Bull sh**, Jim. He doesn't need to "prove" anything. You know it, I know it, and so does eveyone else. There is always knew data. I can't "prove" that if you suddenly step off the curb without warning into heavy rush hour traffic that you'll get squashed like a bug by a car, truck, or bus (take your pick). You just might make it across the road without getting killed, but I wouldn't call it a safe way to conduct your life, and I know you wouldn't either. I "believe" that the number of vehicles on the road during heavy rush hour traffic is a preponderance of observational data that points to a likely conclusion. Go play in traffic for awhile, Jim... and be sure to let me know if religious "faith" protects you from yourself.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Writing something like that JimakaPPJ suggests you never finished elementary school. Go look up the phrase "the scientific method" or click this link and enlighten yourself. Point is that scientists work with theories, not absolute truths. And therefore, when they speak about their work, people like yourself do not understand a darn thing...OR as I suspect in your case, you do understand it, but you still try to twist the truth in hope most of the readers are simple enough not to see through your jibberish.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    edger - Certainly he has to "prove" it if he wants remove his opinions from the "belief" category. Vast difference between belief and proof. There is also a difference between consensus science/belief and the real thing. Here is a link regarding climate change. One small quote:
    At this point the world’s climatologists are agreed that we do not have… tens of thousands of years to prepare for the next ice age and that how carefully we monitor our atmospheric pollution will have a direct affect on the arrival and nature of this weather crisis. The sooner man confronts these facts… the safer he will be. Science Digest 1973
    You may also wish to read this regarding consensus science. A small sample.
    N=N*fp ne fl fi fc fL This serious-looking equation gave SETI an serious footing as a legitimate intellectual inquiry. The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. And guesses-just so we're clear-are merely expressions of prejudice.
    edger writes:
    I "believe" that the number of vehicles on the road during heavy rush hour traffic is a preponderance of observational data that points to a likely conclusion.
    If you have read my comments, and the links, you will now know that what you are talking about is anecdotal evidence, which is neither evidence or proof. Sorry edger, I'll keep science and religion separate. One is faith and belief. The other is proven fact.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    now know that what you are talking about is anecdotal evidence
    Well, Jim - I guess I'll have to gracefully admit that you've got me there, bud with your unassailable argument, which, I'm sure you'll agree, constitutes objective "proof" of the "rightness" of your position on this matter. Just to nail it down "absolutely" though, since I'm a liitle thick in the morning, tell me, do you now feel confident enough that I am only offering unreliable anecdotal evidence when I say that "I "believe" that the number of vehicles on the road during heavy rush hour traffic is a preponderance of observational data that points to a likely conclusion." ? Confident enough to give us a demonstration? Hmmm? Since there is no "evidence or proof" [your words] that you'll be hurt? ^ ^ O O ?

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    edger - You destroyed your own argument when you wrote:
    You just might make it across the road without getting killed, but I wouldn't call it a safe way to conduct your life, and I know you wouldn't either.
    "Might" has nothing to do with scientific "fact." And "consensus science" has nothing to do with real science as the "Global Cooling" scare proved back in early/mid 70's.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    PPJ-the subtext to global warming is conservation and the two seem inextricably linked for the pro and cons sides . Do you believe that there is any reason to conserve gas and oil or invest in clean alternate fuel sources? Bushco doesn't because they are making big bucks as they have long held major investments the oil industry. Are you just hoping for some trickle down benefits because you supported their greed, or you also invested in the oil biz?

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Some relatively good news... Rita Is Losing Steam, Downgraded to Category 3 Storm By Maria L. LaGanga, Scott Gold and Stephen Braun, Times Staff Writers 11:35 AM PDT, September 23, 2005 BEAUMONT, Texas -- A weakening Hurricane Rita today howled toward the Texas and Louisiana coastline, its top winds at 125 miles per hour, causing water to pour over a patched levee in New Orleans and paralyzing major highways for hours as many fled inland to avoid the storm. The storm was downgraded to a Category 3 at 11 a.m. by the National Hurricane Center...

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    edgar-Yes, but a very powerful Cat 3.
    The storm surge - expected to be near 20ft at the point of landfall - and 15-20 feet up to 30- miles east of the center -- and this will cause near Catastrophic damage typical of a CAT 5 hurricane surge. And tidal surge of 10-15 feet is likely up to 50NM east of the landfall fall, with tides 3-5 feet above normal as far east as the Alabama coast.
    weatherundreground

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Squeaky:
    but a very powerful Cat 3
    All anecdotal evidence produced by shameless consensus science, of course, and really it's absolutely nothing to worry about after all, since it's not really happening anyway... ;-)

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    empiricism rules. f*ck the theories and reports from afar, it's me that matters. Go, go, go, ppj aka empiricist ne plus ultra.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    Water flows over New Orleans levee Friday, September 23, 2005; Posted: 4:38 p.m. EDT (20:38 GMT) Corps of Engineers: 9th Ward under 3-4 feet of water, again...

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    HURRICANE RITA INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY NUMBER 25A NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL Hurricane RITA Public Advisory
    6 PM CDT FRI SEP 23 2005 ...TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS SPREADING OVER SOUTHWEST LOUISIANA AND SOUTHEAST TEXAS AS DANGEROUS HURRICANE RITA APPROACHES... A HURRICANE WARNING IS IN EFFECT FROM SARGENT TEXAS TO MORGAN CITY LOUISIANA. A HURRICANE WARNING MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS. PREPARATIONS TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED.


    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    Adrazar: "Slowing of the gulf stream is not yet all that d[r]amatic for the areas you talk about," I didn't say it was. The IMPLICATIONS for those areas are dramatic. "actually the gulf stram has slowed significantly the last 10 years, but it compensates by getting warmer." It slows BECAUSE less cold water is going into the system. And that has very grave impacts, as you note.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Rita made landfall at 3:38 AM EDT on the Louisiana coast just east of the Texas state line with 120 mph winds. This is the same areas that Hurricane Audrey put underwater in 1957. Storm surge of 15 to 20 feet is expected. Beaumont and Port Arthur are getting the brunt of the winds. Major inland flooding is likely over the weekend as the storm slows down and rains itself out across eastern Texas and western Louisiana.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Squeaky - If you want to talk about alternative energy sources, and conservation, I will be happy too. But not as part of the Global Warming issue. Because, as I think you know, both of these items have become "the camel's nose under the tent" for the wacko environmentalists. Do I believe the earth has warmed? Yes, but due to natural causes, not anything man has done, or can change. The so-called Kyoto treaty was meant to cripple the US while not bothering either China or India, neither of which would pay any attention to being told to follow the treaty. BTW - You may want to read this report: Link
    In the aftermath of the hockey stick’s demolition, some scientists connected to the IPCC have tried to insist that it actually didn’t matter that much to their case. Any such attempt to downplay the influence of the graph flies in the face of the print record. Without it the TAR would have looked been a very different document, it would not have been able to conclude what it did, nor could the IPCC have convinced world leaders to take the actions they subsequently took. In light of its singular role, and in light of the enormous trust placed by governments around the world..
    The “hockey stick” referred to is the now infamous claim that warming was ramping up and increasing quickly. It was wrong, and the science was dubious science, evidently hokumed up in a manner that demonstrates – gasp! – bias! This point alone is enough for rational people to give the Chicken Littles and their masters, the politicians who want to control your thermostat, a raucous and well deserved horse laugh. Much is made of Bush and the subject, but the fact is that the US Senate, demonstrating an unusual amount of common sense, rejected it 98 to 0 when Clinton sent it to them. So I'll just note again that when the weather people can prove they predict what will happen two weeks from now, let me know.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    PIL writes:
    Gravity has NOTHING on a Class 5 hurricane.
    Wrong. Gravity is what keeps the hurricane firmly attached to the Earth.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Well, so far this appears to have woprked out about as well as people in TX or LA could have hoped for. Kdog, I stand corrected: the word "pipedream" was far too strong, in substance we got what we asked for, at least for now. Knock on wood.

    Re: Rita Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    ppj..it is rare to see someone as full of themselves as you..would it surprise you to know that not everyone is interested in your narrow minded right wing crap...go aplogize for the chimp and his followers elsewhere..try powerline they might like you...but of course you just like attention anyway..like most five year olds...