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Thursday Open Thread

I have an all day Daubert hearing at which Government "experts" (agents and cops) will attempt to convince the judge that their interpretation of more than 100,000 wiretapped conversations of suspected crack cocaine sellers is both reliable and helpful to the jury. When the expert hears "I'm out of milk," he will tell the judge, the speaker is saying "I'm out of crack." Courts routinely admit this ridiculous evidence. With 17 of the charged 30 defendants still refusing to take plea bargains, it will take all day.

So if you have a thought on what's "crackalackin' " today (real translation: "What's happening?" -- ask any rapper, it has nothing to do with crack cocaine) here's the place.

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  • Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by LorettaNall on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Good luck Jerilyn...sounds like it's gonna be a long day.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Yes, good luck fighting the good fight for justice. ***Disclaimer***In case any DEA agents are reading, none of the above are code words for any illegal drugs.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Beck on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Since tasers have a limited range, now we're getting electric bullets. Courtesy of the Department of Homeland Security.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    I got a seatbelt ticket this morning. Why does "the man" care if I'm wearing my seatbelt or not? I wonder if "the man" has his hands in the pockets of seatbelt manufacturers. Things that make you go hmmmmm or hmmph.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    “Why does "the man" care if I'm wearing my seatbelt or not?” They are just watching out for you. It’s how ‘the man’ justifies regulating everything from the trivial, like seatbelts and helmets, to the fatally important, like outlawing life saving drugs for a decade +, to the fiscal, like what charities you donate to or products you subsidize or even how you save for retirement. It’s for your own good; don’t be so ungrateful.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    LOL.... Cause someone other than the man said it's illegal to drive without a seatbelt. Don't blame the messenger.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    And it's called 'revenue.' Just consider it a contribution towards the welfare of your community, peacrevol.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Ummm... I'm pretty sure it has to do with the millions of dollars contributed by the insurance lobby. More seat belt usage means less payouts by insurance companies and therefore higher profit margins by said insurance companies. It also means lower rates for me, so I say wear your darned seat belt.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    PW, I dont want the man watching out for me. I'll watch out for myself. If I am willing to go way out on a limb and be an unsafe rebel unwilling to wear a seatbelt, that should be no concern of anyone but me. Patrick, Hahaha...stupid messenger :)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Kitt, I think my taxes are plenty of revenue for big brother. If not then big brother needs to be more efficient. MicDit, That makes sense, but I dont like it. hrmph. Spend the money left over from insurance savings wisely.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Josh Marshall's well founded speculation about the RNC's footing the bill for the NH phone jamming scandal, turns out to be true. They have paid over $700,000. for Tobins defense. The lastest tactic, noted at TPM Cafe is: "that Todd Hinnen, the US Department of Justice attorney who successfully obtained guilty please and jail sentences for McGee and Raymond, and who has been prosecuting Tobin, is being transferred off the case and placed in a cyber-terrorism unit."     Sounds like DOJ transfers are punishment for sucess.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Peace, In California it's illegal to have a clear plastic cover over your rear license plate, or a red bug deflector.. How about that silly, stupid, trivial laws.... Imagine.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Pat, Yeah we have the same stupid kind of crap in Texas. Your license plate cover cant cover up any part of the lettering that spell Texas above the license plate number. Also, you have to have a plate on the front of your car, which seems strange to me, b/c if you can read that front plate, you'll be able to read the back plate in just a second. :)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    I thought this quotation fit right in with the discussion of the ‘needs’ and ‘rights’ of society (something still being debated in the meth thread).
    "If we are to encourage a derring-do society, we must allow some risk-taking and a little excitement," he said, adding, "In fact, so changed is our mind-set that we will even allow reverse bungee."
    Guess who? Former Prime Minister of Singapore, Goh Chok Tong. They have also announced a relaxed ban on chewing gum (by prescription) as well as allowing dancing on tabletops. No word yet on their seatbelt laws.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    This is interesting; polling ranking (word document) the most liberal to conservative of American cities. I live within miles of #1 and #21 on the most conservative list. Guess I’m not so surprised.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    German friends of mine recommend using clear nail polish on the License plate. Reflect on that. Is using nail polish also illegal in CA or TX?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    OK, what does clear nail polish do? PW, I guess California is a bastion of conservative philosophy...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Reflects bright light, like in flash photography.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Well if it's used as an attempt to avoid detection I would say it's exactly what the law prohibits. Ingenious, but probably illegal.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Can we say "1984" i have no thoughts on this one, but was Fox and Bush on the Wiretape ? "we all know how much Bush and The Crack Guy Fox are like". and how hot each one is for the other! The Government is a cancer that must be removed before it kills us all. see: 9-11 commission, see: I didn't know? Bush is a setup and loves the ideals of dismantling this once great nation.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Yesterday the NY Times online edition posted a story about a military coup that unseated the Mayor of Baghdad Paul Bremer installed. Does anyone know why the mainstream press hasn't reported on what seems to be a major indication that a civil war has started? Thanks. Deb (Politicalgirl)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    Never heard of the clear nail polish thing. I guess it would be sneaky enough to get by most law enforcement. I dont see how they could detect it really. Try it out and let me know how it goes.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    It works.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    It works for what? Just reflecting light and looking cool or making the numbers hard to see? Not to sound like a nerd or whatever, but on mythbusters (Discovery chanel show where they do experiments to bust myths) they did some experiments on reflectors placed on cars to throw off radar detectors and couldnt get it to work. They kept getting the right radar readings every time, even with the car covered in foil.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    (Yes I watch mythbusters)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    Denver is a hotbed of subversive activity, also police surveillance. Who would of guessed? Go Denver Go!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    Obscuring the license plate is usually to foil automated speeding / red light cameras, not radar. Also good if you're commiting a more serious crime and don't want your car easily ID'ed. Supposedly it can prevent lasers from getting a good reading, because cops usually aim at the plate, but I'm skeptical.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    This is interesting; polling ranking (word document) the most liberal to conservative of American cities. I live within miles of #1 and #21 on the most conservative list. Guess I’m not so surprised.
    Clearly whoever did this survey has never been to College Station, TX. Ultra conservative, but also exteremely cool (cool in attitude, not temperature. damn it gets hot down there).

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    If you put clear nail polish on your seatbelts can they tell that you're not wearing it?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    OK, the polish deflects flash photography used with automatic detectors. In America most PBA's are dead against any device that could replace live police work. Recently though, in NYC, cameras have been placed at major intersections to record license plates of cars that go through a red light. An automatic, non defendable ticket (the language on the ticket), is sent to the owner of the car whether he/she was driving it or not. Although, some have beat the ticket (not so non-defendable), by claiming that the device was defective, most write it off as the cost of doing biz in NYC. Parking tickets =$400-500 mil in annual revenue, so you can see how the PBA lost on this one. I don't imagine that the PBA lobby has allowed cameras to replace live cops at speedtraps...yet.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Regarding seat belts, all I know is I was in one bad wreck with a friend. He was wearing his belt and dislocated his shoulder. I wasn't and escaped unscathed. I haven't worn one since. C'mon Mike, you really think the insurance company is gonna pass some savings on to you? Insurance is mandated by law, as long as that is the case they got you by the short and curlies. Any money saved by increased seat belt usage goes to shareholders and executives, not customers Insurance, in my opinion, is one of the crookedest industries. Have a clean driving record for 5 years, some knucklehead rear-ends you, your rates go up. Crooked, crooked, crooked. More nanny state silliness to extort money from free men.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    kdog,
    Regarding seat belts, all I know is I was in one bad wreck with a friend. He was wearing his belt and dislocated his shoulder. I wasn't and escaped unscathed. I haven't worn one since.
    Geez, dude, do you also brush your teeth with raw chicken? Trust statistics over any single incident.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    kdog- I had a similar experience. I was in a head on collision going 20mph hit by some jerk who decided 9th ave (at 34th) was a northbound street. I suffered major bruises caused by my seatbelt, My friend in the passenger seat went through the window and suffered a major concussion. He has been wearing seatbelts ever since.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Hey, probably not really news to most of you who do your research and know what has been going on in the ME, but I just found this quite disturbing. Things that make you go, "huh, wait, what?" This is from a website devoted to info about Iran. I dont know its origin, but it has the history of Iran since a caveman got lost and wound up in the desert about a billion years ago or something like that.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Also, kdog, absent callusion, ins. co's generally attract customers by offering a lower price than the next guy, so logic would say that if they are able to reduce their expenses, they will then be able lower their prices to attract the other guy's customers. Although I will agree with you that the whole requirement by law aspect of auto ins. is bogus. Miss you over on the meth thread...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Iran 2005. We have seen the Rumsfield Iran contingency plan, via American Conservative Mag., and we have seen his most recent uncorroborated accusations that Iran is exporting extra strong explosives to Iraq. If that does not make you nervous enough check out Wayne Madsen's post today about Iran doings, it true, we are all in trouble.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    A little more chemical warfare stuff. more

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    OK so evidently we've been treating the ME like a redheaded stepchild this whole time. No wonder they're angry.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Intelligent Design™ is another 'small sample error.' I hear people all the time making small sample errors in the expression of their bigotry. For instance, 'The French suck. I went there and they treated me like I was a tourist.' Others chime in and note that French cheeses smell, and the French gov't capitulated to Hitler, and there you have it. Time to hate the French. Small samples LOVE big generalizations, false data, and negative 'assessment.' I hear the same thing about 'Americans,' as if 280 million people can be summarized with a 900 person sample. Statistics really only works when studying RANDOM samples, but no small sample of human beings is ever truly randomized. Blaming billions of brown people for the actions of 15 Saudis and 2 Egyptians is the ultimate in racist thinking. The Mossad and Jewish racists love it, but it is just the lynch mob once again. I hear Arabs' cheese smells. Better 'kill them all.' Some of the bigots here make similarly insane statements right here. But they are small samplers in a small sample of people who still hate names of collectives as if that is a legitimate perspective on the people themselves.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    How bout this and this that seem to show that we knew about chemical war since at least 1984.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Not raw chicken roy, though I do eat raw chop meat on occasion:) Hey gang, I know I'm a weirdo, I just prefer going by my personal experiences as opposed to DOT stats. My buddy's shoulder has never been the same since. If the wreck is bad enough you are a goner anyway. I've learned to accept the fact every time I get in a car I'm risking my life, and I'm cool with it. I haven't learned to accept the fact the state can jack you for $200 if you don't wear a belt.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Corp America was on your side as regards seatbelts for a long time, they refused to even install them in cars.... until Nader forced them to based on death and injury stats. Hey, I am with you, these pricks should not be allowed to extract a cent from me. And the insurance industry wrote laws that basically give them monopoly like power; they are utter scum and racketeers. I just hope we do not lose you because of your unusual experience w/seat belts. We need you alive.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    I wouldn't say the car industry was "on my side". By all means seat belts should be in every car FOR THE INDIVIDUAL to decide whether he/she wants to use it. The car industry was only concerned with cost, I'm only concerned with freedom. Thanks for the nice wishes squeaky. I plan to rant and rave for years to come.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    It seems that these traffic cops could just not write you a ticket and wait for somebody going way over the speed limit or something instead. While he has me stopped for a rediculous seatbelt ticket, somebody may pass going 85 in a 55 and rear end somebody up the road b/c they were going too fast. If that were the case, then a potentially fatal accident could easily have been avoided by just not worrying about the seatbelt. Enforcing such a stupid law just seems incredibly inefficient to me. (unless they're only interested in my $$$$ from fines, which they are)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Et al – I am against seat belt laws for one reason. I figure their absence improves the odds they won’t be used. Thus we have a better chance at gene pool improvement. Squeaky writes:
    German friends of mine recommend using clear nail polish on the License plate. Reflect on that. Is using nail polish also illegal in CA or TX?
    My personal Manicurist points out that the cost of covering the plates with clear nail polish would probably exceed the cost of the average ticket. But she is certainly willing to do it. However, only upscale cars with serious owners need apply.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    You have a personal manicurist? OOOOOO money bags. j/k

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    debwake, the reason why is the war is now a side show and the boys in the media are taking orders from the oligarchies and lets face facts this war will come to an end with the start of the third world war. and as far as the civil war starting that is what bush and business want, its not real news to call white, white and black, black, its all about control over people so real evil can be done. oh yes, ask why bush asked the iran government to help in iraq? isn't that funny? when you think about it?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    PPJ- It is true that if your painting technique is anything like your writing your costs will outweigh the benefit.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Since we seem to be all about the anecdotal evidence, how about this: My best friend Rod and his partner Lee were driving back from boulder one night when they hit a patch of black ice, spun out, and rolled the car. My best friend was wearing his seat belt, and he got severe bruising and a broken clavicle. His partner was not wearing a seat belt, was partially ejected through the windshield, and was decapitated. Since the passenger cabin was completely intact, it's a virtual certainty that if Lee had been wearing his seat belt, he would still be around to whine about a messed up shoulder.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Squeaky - I be the paintee, Ms Manicurist be the painter. But she only paints the center for me. None of this Left - Right stuff. peacrevol - Well, she's personal when she is doing mine. Man, you oughta see my toe nails.. Michael D - I seem to remember reading about that. My sympathies.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    I caused an accident recently. The other vehicle bashed my car pretty good, then jumped a curb, snapped a wooden power pole, and put a major kabong on a metal storage building. The driver had both an air bag and a seat belt, and was feeling spry enough to jump out the passenger-side windows and almost take a swing at me. Absent the seat belt, I suspectI'd be asking TL for legal advice re: manslaughter.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    michelle malkin has been an outspoken advocate of racial profiling, she even wrote a book on why america was right in putting all japanese americans in concentration camps. (BTW, ronnie reagan apologised for this act.) Now that we know Philipinos have engaged in and are planning more terrorism, shouldn't we lock her up?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Michael-
    “His partner was not wearing a seat belt, was partially ejected through the windshield, and was decapitated.”
    This is horrible; for the sake of the sanity of the survivor I hope the unfortunate friend was the one was driving. I am constantly getting on my wife’s case for not buckling her seatbelt. If I fu*ked up (I always drive when it’s the two of us) and killed her I don’t think I could go on. Roy- A friend of mine was listening to Phil Hendrie and rear-ended someone at 40 mph. Airbags and seatbelt; all was OK. Once I watched a geo metro directly in front of me (50 ft.) in my lane enter an intersection (green light) immediately t-boned by a big sedan running his red. I saw it all in slow motion; the guy’s airbag inflated and the geo just kind of exploded.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    If Bush was in the Wizard of Oz, which character would he be? The Scarecrow (if I only had a brain)? The Tin Man (if I only had a heart)? The Cowardly Lion (courage)? And lets not forget Toto.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    John asks
    If Bush was in the Wizard of Oz, which character would he be? The Scarecrow (if I only had a brain)? The Tin Man (if I only had a heart)? The Cowardly Lion (courage)? And lets not forget Toto.
    C'mon man, you know he'd be Dorathy. In dreamland the whole time.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    peacrevol.. Why does "the man" care if I'm wearing my seatbelt or not? Good question.... and one that hads bothered me for years, Kdog... I have a similar story. My sis was hit by a train back in the 70's. She was thrown between the bucket seats and got out with a few scratches (and probably her pants full!) If she had a seat belt on...she'd be dead now. That was enough for me! Is it a good idea to wear belts... Sure! (common sense) ...should there be a law forcing you to? HELL NO!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Mike...sorry about your friend as well. It all depends on the particulars of the wreck. Sometimes a belt will save your life, sometimes it will cause more severe injuries. Most of my driving is on side streets, I personally feel safer without it on. I also used to have a recurring nightmare as a kid where I was in a burning car and I couldn't get out because of the seat belt. My mom always said it was because she was in an accident with me in the car when I was a toddler (I don't remember it). The point, once again, is for whatever reason I choose not to wear it, it should be my right as a free man to take such a risk if I so choose without the state extorting me .

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    OK...now on to the serous issue, for the true politic junkies, do you think H. Ross Perot could take Ralph Nader. They're both small guys, getting up there in age. Perot's got that firey attitude that says he'll jump on you and kick some butt. Nader's got that whole "dont mess with the quiet guy thing" going on.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    BB,
    Is it a good idea to wear belts... Sure! (common sense) ...should there be a law forcing you to? HELL NO!
    Hear, hear! Now if only we could ditch the law forcing me to pay for subsidized health care for people who don't wear seat belts. kdog,
    ...in a burning car and I couldn't get out because of the seat belt.
    Reminds me of this lawsuit where Ford got b*ggered for not using laminated (i.e. very tough) glass in side windows, which would tend to trap people.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    ...do you think H. Ross Perot could take Ralph Nader
    Nader would lose, but not realize it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Et Al... As long as this is an open thread... I'd love to hear anyone on the left comment on this....link Yes...I know this is a "Conservative" link...however the article posted is making news and will come back to haunt those so quick to blame GW for 9/11. Any comments... anyone... anyone? I'd especially would like to hear from those 'way out' libs like Ernesto & Paulie in La La land.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    BB, If you're talking about Operation Able Danger, you should probably link to the specific entry.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Looks like Rutt Bridges has dropped out of the Colorado Governor's race. That's a shame. I was really looking forward to working on his campaign.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    pigwiggle-- Hendrie would make me want to rear-end somebody too. That show is just plain odious. kdog: I have a little orange hammer/blade deal that's screwed into the door panel of my car. It has a blade for cutting the seatbelt, and a pointed hammer for breaking the window glass if necessary. I think I got it for about $5 at AutoZone.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    BB- there is mounting evidence that Weldon is lying, as he has done in the past, and this is just another example of the neocon spin machine at work.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Michael, Make sure you keep that thing in a safe place, dont want it cutting you open in the event of a wreck. Wait just a minute...is that considered a lethal weapon? Probably...better not let the man see it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#67)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Wait just a minute...is that considered a lethal weapon? Probably...better not let the man see it.
    Unless you're a white dude...then it's probably ok.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    Squeaky... BB- there is mounting evidence that Weldon is lying,...and this is just another example of the neocon spin machine at work. LOL..well we shall see. Be ready to defend this position. This has mostly been brought to light by people in Clinton's staff.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    peacecreval, I thought the most obvious choices for Bush in the Wizard of Oz was for him to be the Tin Man (no heart) or the Scarecrow (no brain). Of course we can't forget Toto too. The obvious choice for that is Tony Blair. John Kerry could be the Cowardly Lion. Karl Rove as the "don't look whats behind the curtain" Wizard. I was thinking Ambassador Wilson as Dorothy ("Follow the Yellowcake Road"). Dick Cheney can play the Mayor of the Munchkins ("We've verified it legally" that Sadam most "positively, absolutely, undeniably, and reliably" has WMDs).

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    BB-As an appetizer here are some telling quotes from Weldon and O'Reily last June:
    Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, in this job, all of us are used to misinformation, lies and distortions and manipulation by the media. We refer to that as spin; but, Mr. Speaker, I never expected such spin to come from the no-spin zone of Bill O'Reilly.
    Both are clearly the top authorities on spin.
    BILL O'REILLY, I have now witnessed the ultimate spin -- from, of all people, you.


    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    BB...why don't you go camp in a ditch outside Clinton's place 'til you get your answers? Just a suggestion. BTW...I never accused Bush of causing 9/11. I only said that he exploited it to the hilt.