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Will Karl Rove Resign?

The New York Times succinctly recaps the Administration's prior statements on Karl Rove and the Valerie Plame leak:

In September 2003, Mr. McClellan said flatly that Mr. Rove had not been involved in disclosing Ms. Plame's name. Asked about the issue on Sept. 29, 2003, Mr. McClellan said he had "spoken with Karl Rove," and that it was "simply not true" that Mr. Rove had a role in the disclosure of her identity. Two weeks earlier, he had called suggestions that Mr. Rove had been involved "totally ridiculous." On Oct. 10, 2003, after the Justice Department opened its investigation, Mr. McClellan told reporters that Mr. Rove, Mr. Abrams and Mr. Libby had nothing to do with the leak.

Mr. McClellan and Mr. Bush have both made clear that leaking Ms. Plame's identity would be considered a firing offense by the White House. Mr. Bush was asked about that position most recently a little over a year ago, when he was asked whether he stood by his pledge to fire anyone found to have leaked the officer's name. "Yes," he replied, on June 10, 2004.

I don't expect President Bush to fire Rove. So, will Rove spare the President the embarassment and resign? And where is Fitgerald headed now?

If Rove gets indicted, I still think it won't be for outing Valerie Plame. I think it's more likely it will be for either perjury to the grand jury, making false statements to investigators or conspiracy to obstruct justice or violate the law against outing operatives.

Meanwhile, Judith Miller sits in jail protecting someone, probably Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis Libby.

Salon has a new primer on the confusing case. The New York Times recaps prior White House briefings about the leaks. (So does Billmon.)

Will Karl Rove resign? Or continue to confidently maintain he's done nothing wrong and bank on escaping Fitzgerald's clutches? And if Rove goes down, who's going to go down with him? My bet is it will be Cheney's staff.

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  • Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#1)
    by JK on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Is it true, as Mark Klienman writes, that if rove lied to bush, then he committed a felony, and if not then bushco lied to us?

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Will it really matter? If Rove "resigns," I'd bet he'll still be advising Bush from the sidelines as a member of a right-wing think tank or from the RNC.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Rover's situation is tenuos and depend on what type of shoes drop their size and frequency. The media seems to be really worked up over this one. I think they are ready to break Karl's choke collar and turn on him. We shall see? I remember when watergate broke wide open I like this one had been facinated with the case and followed is every day untill Nixon waved good bye! Am I seeing my life flash by me or am I having a really nice dream?

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:07 PM EST
    He might not get "frog-marched out of the White House in chains" as Valeries Husband had wanted but Joe Wilson certainly is vindicated after his name and reputation (as well as that of his wife's) were indicted and impugned it turns out, in fact, because they exposed the WAR LIE. Good for Valerie and Joe. Good for America. I hope Rove is indicted for lying in his testimony (which I'm imagining he must have). Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Karl. I hope your methods and machinations are exposed in your lifetime.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#5)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:07 PM EST
    mfox writes:
    in fact, because they exposed the WAR LIE.
    Uh, now let's don't too worked up. First, In think the Brits still believe that Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake from Niger. Maybe you can link us to something where they say otherwise. I frankly don't know. Secondly, this whole thing started when Bush quoted the Brit's information in his 2003 SOTU;
    "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
    Thirdly, you can't say that he is lying. He merely quotes. You can claim that he knew, but a claim is not proof.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:07 PM EST
    Mfox You just heard it for PPJ. So let's fold up out tents and go home or brace ourselves for the barrage of self protecting bullspin from the likes of PPJ and other wingnuts. Let move Mfox there's no intelligent life coming from there.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#7)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:07 PM EST
    EdB - Speaking of intelligence....prove me wrong.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:07 PM EST
    Sadly, I won't be surprised if Rove stays on. I have been astonished and impressed by the Repubs' commitment to maintaining power, no matter what. Unlike the Demos, who apologize for everything and force culprits to resign (remember what happened to Demo House leaders found to have taken improper payment for a BOOK contract?) -- the Repubs led by Karl Rove never admit error and they DO NOT RESIGN. Imagine if a Demo Chief of Staff had been found to 'out' a CIA operative! He or she would be branded a traitor, and hounded out of office. Look at the flak Hillary Clinton got for changing TRAVEL AGENTS!

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    So the White House has clammed up on the latest story about Karl Rove's leaking Plame's name to Time reporter Matt Cooper. And the liberal side of the blogsphere wants Rove to either resign, fired, or "be frog-marched out of the White House in chains." We are missing the bigger picture here. The question we really should be asking here is who linked Valerie Plame's name to Robert Novak?That's the original perpetrator to this federal crime. Novak's column came out first before Matt Cooper's story, so Plame's name was already out. Plame's name was also released after her husband Joe Wilson wrote the New York Times editorial criticizing the Bush Administration's WMD claims in Iraq. Valerie Plame's name was released in retribution to Joe Wilson's criticisms. And the stench of this scandal is certainly emanating from the Bush White House. But we need to know who started this scanal. We need to know who the individual was that originally leaked Plame's name to Robert Novak. We should demand that information.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    PB&J, trying to change the subject again to hide from his history on the Plame Affair and roves involvement. Try to stay on topic. Rove should resign. For purely vengeful reasons, he give up V's name. All that tough talk coming from Bush and McClellan in 2003 has disappeared.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    For me, the most prescient comment in the transcripts of previous statements by the NYT is the line uttered by Bush on 10/7/03: "...we'll probably never find out who the leaker is, partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers." Uh-huh. Or so he was told?

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    PPJ-speak:
    I think the Brits still believe that Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake from Niger. Maybe you can link us to something where they say otherwise. I frankly don't know.
    ...
    EdB - Speaking of intelligence....prove me wrong.
    What's to prove wrong, PPJ? That you don't know? PPJ, despite your nickname, you're a terrible bluffer.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#13)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    EdB - When you say something like, "I don't know," your not bluffing. That's asking a question. Too bad you don't know the difference. And if you know, and can link, here's you chance to show me something. I'll not hold my breath. JL&bs - My comment was exactly on subject, and in response to mfox, so your advice should be taken by you, and all of your off subject comments this AM on another thread.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    PB&J, off topic, her comment was an "aside", do you know what that means or would you like the web address of a good dictionary site. I believe the topic is will Rove resign, do you have an opinion on that or more propaganda from Rush to post?

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    He might not get "frog-marched out of the White House in chains" as Valeries Husband had wanted but Joe Wilson certainly is vindicated after his name and reputation (as well as that of his wife's) were indicted and impugned it turns out, in fact, because they exposed the WAR LIE. Good for Valerie and Joe. Good for America. I hope Rove is indicted for lying in his testimony (which I'm imagining he must have). Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Karl. I hope your methods and machinations are exposed in your lifetime. One comment about a "lie" and the rest about Karl. PB&J mfox writes: in fact, because they exposed the WAR LIE. Uh, now let's don't too worked up. First, In think the Brits still believe that Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake from Niger. Maybe you can link us to something where they say otherwise. I frankly don't know. Secondly, this whole thing started when Bush quoted the Brit's information in his 2003 SOTU; "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." Thirdly, you can't say that he is lying. He merely quotes. You can claim that he knew, but a claim is not proof. Not one word or mention of Rove.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#16)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    PPJ, re: "First, I think the Brits still believe ... I frankly don't know." Maybe you should consider limiting your comments to those things you actually do know. I realize, of course, that this would eliminate almost all of your TL comments.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#17)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    John H - Glad to know you don't want people to admit they don't know and are willing to ask a question. Kinda fits right in with the Left's way of doing business. JL&bs - "Asides" deserve an answer. But, like most lefties you don't want anyone to disagree with and point out the errors in your "asides." In fact, you want to control the subject matter, control the debate, control who gets to debate. Read your own posts over the past day.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Speaking of conTROLLing the subject matter, this thread is about rove's resignation. Try to focus wiilya?

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    I agree PB&J, asides do deserve an answer, but the topic is Rove resigning and mfox gave 3-4 words on "the lie" the rest of mfox post was on Rove. You responded with all about the 3-4 statement which of course is typical, change the subject, get it off course. It is about Rove, and of course you have not addressed that in this post. As for my posts today, in the categories, tehy are all about your statements relative to the subject matter. You get uglier when losing an argument, I like that.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#20)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    JL&bs - All of these Plame threads are carrying a mixture of attack Bush/Repubs/Rove, etc., rhetoric, speculation and, per mfox, "imagining." ;-) You chose to jump in with a bunch of off topic comments about yours truly saying bad things about Dan Rather and the merry band at CBS to prove somnething that I doubt anyone cared about. I responded. I suspect that a halfway unbiased observer would say that neither of us would make the freshman debating team. So Pot, meet Kettle.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    PPJ we care only in that it makes crystal clear what a gigantic hypocrite you truely are. But its dog bites man for us regulars here.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    "Mr. McClellan and Mr. Bush have both made clear that leaking Ms. Plame's identity would be considered a firing offense by the White House. "
    Whether a crime can be proved, bush said he would fire the person who leaked Plame. or not Rove has been proven to have leaked Plame. 'nuff said.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    SD - Hey sweetie! Where you been all day? Hugs and all that. sailor - Now you know you can't believe what Bush said. What he meant was, if there was a crime involved. Haven't seen one, yet.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#24)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    PPJ re: "Glad to know you don't want people to admit they don't know and are willing to ask a question." You are quite right. It is ok to admit what you don't know and to ask questions. That I can presume to assume that I know what you know only demonstrates my own ignorance.

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    actually, no parsing involved, bushco said :
    McClellan vowed: "The president has set high standards, the highest of standards, for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration." Bush replied "yes" when asked in June 2004 if he would fire anyone who leaked the agent's name.
    Notice bush didn't say 'committed a crime', McClellan didn't say 'committed a crime', they said 'involved' or "anyone who leaked the agent's name". Do you really want to debate the meaning of 'is?'

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    Rove nor Bush will suffer any political consequences from this fray. The U.S. is "at war" and, therefore, this administration is Teflon coated. The good news for the left is that all these indiscretions are paving the way for Hillary in '08. Bush has pushed the country so far to the right that a moderate Republican will be unable to retrun it to the status quo. (Bush in the afterlife of his administration screws McClain again - and his Party!)

    Re: Will Karl Rove Resign? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    First, In think the Brits still believe that Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake from Niger. Maybe you can link us to something where they say otherwise. I frankly don't know. Well WE know. The Niger Docs were fake, as proven a long time ago. What are you Jim, a computer simulation? Form an original thought, for once. The Brits also thought that the US was "fixing" intel around the justification for invasion. But you won't accept that particular "belief".