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Sex Offender Was a Blogger

I'm getting quite a few e-mails letting me know that murder suspect Joseph Duncan, accused of kidnapping 8 year old Shasta Groene, and being investigated for the posible death of her brother Dylan and perhaps other family members, was a blogger, and that he blogged about TalkLeft. Here's his blog and here's his TalkLeft-related post:

Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:50 AM
TalkLeft: The Politics of Crime While I was in prison I educated myself and made serious efforts to understand how my life had gotten so far off track so quickly. Now I am a professional Software Engineer, but have a hard time finding work or even a place to live because of all the hype surrounding sex offenders. I can't even find a girlfriend, because the kind of woman I like, mature and educated, are terrified when they find out I'm a "Level Three Sex Offender"; which of course I am not, I am an x-convict, and that is all. People must realize that it is never okay to discriminate against any class of people for any reason. Even if that class is so obviously offensive. Discrimination is always based on the perceived offensiveness of a class; blacks where portrayed as a threat to decent society, as were the Jews in Nazi Germany. The truth is that most sex offenders do not re-offend. For more information please visit The Fifth Nail it is a fledgling attempt to voice an injustice; not against sex offenders, but against the unsuspecting people of this country. I discovered “Talk Left” while I was searching for information about the effects of registration laws on sex crimes. I have been searching off and on for months. I have found nothing yet. A lot of hollow claims, but no data. Hmmmm. I suspect sex crimes are up, especially the violent stranger type.....I could never guess why. What would ever make a person behave so angrily toward another completely innocent person? Could it be that that innocent person somehow represents society, and the violation is some kind of attempt to regain control...I'm no psychologist, but I do know ignorance never solved anything. Posted by: Joe

Unrelated to TalkLeft, in one of his last posts, he wrote:

To be more specific, I am scared, alone, and confused, and my reaction is to strike out toward the perceived source of my misery, society. My intent is to harm society as much as I can, then die. As for the "Happy Joe" (Jet), well he was just a dream. The bogeyman was alive and happy long before Happy Joe.

I was in prison for over 18 years, since the age of 17. As an adult all I knew was the oppression of incarceration. All those years I dreamed of getting out...And getting even. Instead, I got out and I got even, but did not get caught. So, I got even again, and again did not get caught. So, I figured, well, I got even twice (actually more, but that's here nor there), even if I'm the only one who knows, so now what?

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  • Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#4)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    “Instead, I got out and I got even,” A saner man might have considered ‘getting even’ as taking revenge on the judge, prosecutor, defense, accuser, police, prison guard, abusive inmates, and so forth. This monster’s idea of getting even was raping and murdering children. This week I drove past the house where this kids grew up; it’s small and rundown, right against the freeway. Very depressing.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    For those of you without virus protection, the archives of fifthnail are infected with the trojan virus. Go figure. Thanks for posting this Jer, does not alter my stance on the registries one bit, the guy was registered and it did not prevent the crime. Registry does not prevent recidivism and this is just another example that stiffer sentences for violent offenders is the answer, not registries.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    Amazing he couldn't get a "mature and educated woman". He seems like such a combination of both himself. But seriously, it's a nice plug for you with the, um, mullet and mayhem demographic. Do you know of other inmates who regularly access your site? Just curious. And not for reasons of security concern.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    And I have to add, J, that there's something refreshingly bold about you posting this. After the initial ick, you get props for the difficult ironies it implies.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    Dadler: I'm an ex-inmate (not an ex-convict, because the conviction part doesn't go away)and I visit this site every day. Any other questions?

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#6)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    Mr. Duncan does have a point regarding 'victimhood.' I'm sure he didn't just wake up one morning thinking "yep, think I'll molest me somebody today." Here's a story that surely indicates how it's perpetuated.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    A very chilling thought- Blaghdaddy never really thought about who reads peoples' blogs...they come from all stripes...makes you wonder who's looking over your own shoulder as you post every day... As for this dude, as with most sexual offenders who were themselves abused, they view sexual abuse as "normal" and can never be cured, only deterred...and deterrence doesn't work at all, or there would be no crime... A man who is sexually excited by children or violent rape of grown women can no more be "reformed" than a man who is sexually excited by a volutptuous woman...you can't re-wire these people any more than you can re-wire yourself to become a homosexual if you're straight... Sadly, Blaghdaddy's only "logical" solution rests in making sure a convicted sex offender (especially of children) is never around potential victims again- if that means he sits in a six by eight for the rest of his life, society is better served than in giving a guy like this repeated "chances." One "repeat" ruins a life, and Blagh would not lose one second of sleep knowing that a convicted pedophile never saw the light of day again... Are we more interested in protecting our children or making sure child molesters don't feel persecuted? F#ck'em, they go away and you throw away the key... If this girl were your daughter, you'd agree wholeheartedly... Three strikes you're out, but these guys keep getting back to the plate... I'd rather let a three-time thief go than a one-time child molester, so who's priorities are in need of adjustment- ours or theirs?

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    You know, the one thing that really burns my biscuits is how little outrage there is about child molesters and rapists unless it's one of theirs that gets sullied... That's the crime here... Rob a bank, do life...steal a candy bar after two prior felonies- life... Rape a woman, molest a child? Yeah, men are really burned up about it... If men were raped as frequently as women and children, it would be a capital offense...guaranteed... Bloody bastards...

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    There are too many people incarcerated as a result of a failed drug war which of course leads to overcrowding which of course leads to early release etc. Violent crime should have much sterner sentences than drug crimes (sans violence). Gotta make room to house those potheads..... Fewer laws, stricter enforcement, truth in sentencing.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    What we "need," as ghoulish as it sounds, are lawmakers who have had children or sisters or mothers or daughters raped and/or murdered... World records would be broken running to Capitol Hill and Parliament Hill to make rape once again a capital offense... You see, men only get upset when you damage something of theirs... That's why robbing a bank gets you into so much trouble...you're messing with theirs... "A woman was raped..." "Oh my God! Where's my wife?" "Right here, hon..." "Oh...f#ck it, then..."

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    Amazing that this guy didn't consider himself a sex offender and that he actually had the balls to sit there and wonder why some people behave violently toward others.... Well, in an ode to "you never know who's reading your blog" if there are any other sex offenders out there reading this: Die, miserably.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    What we "need," as ghoulish as it sounds, are lawmakers who have had children or sisters or mothers or daughters raped and/or murdered...
    The same way that Tom Delay grew to appreciate the right of families to let their loved ones go gently into that good night when his own dad was on life support, and the same way he grew to value malpractice lawsuits, like the one his family brought against the manufacturers of a piece of equipment implicated in his father's death? I'm afraid what it actually takes is integrity and the ability to put oneself in others' shoes... something that seems to be widely lacking.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#13)
    by krazycory on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    dadler i'm an ex-con and i check this site out daily let me say that i am NOT a molester i went away for meth. i just wanted to say that it used to be hard time for the rapo's and mo's but now if one gets beat up its a new felony for the one who hits him and believe me they'll stand in line to tell on you. i told the captain on our block once that they treat them like an endangered species. they are model inmates they don't talk back they go to church EVERY sunday i think they should have an open season on them. and blah is right THERE IS NO CURE for the sick s.o.b.'s

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#14)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    It appears that some brain-dead morons think men are not concerned about rapists and child molesters. If that were true, how come the registries are so popular? Unspeakable jerks. The molesters, too.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#15)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    How come this perp got out on bail? He must have had a butt-kicking lawyer. Alan Dershowitz doing the PD thing in Idaho? And maybe the prosecutor phoned it in, while the judge was pleasuring himself behind the bench. Lawyers. Crap.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#16)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    How come this perp got out on bail? He must have had a butt-kicking lawyer. Alan Dershowitz doing the PD thing in Idaho? And maybe the prosecutor phoned it in, while the judge was pleasuring himself behind the bench. Lawyers. Crap.
    Outside of being idiotic statements - Duncan got out on bail in ..... North Dakota, Minnesota? He's currently in jail in Idaho charged with kidnapping; he's not out on bail now. Sometimes it helps reading the stories before commenting. The judge may not have had the man's past history. Who knows? Take another shot at second-guessing the judge's decision.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#17)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    Kitt. If he had not been out on bail for something else, he'd not have been able to ruin those kids. He was in front of a court someplace else for something rotten. The report was on television news yesterday. I got to it about halfway through. I'll see if I can find more on it.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#18)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    I know, Richard; I'm in Idaho. Like you said, he was out on bail from 'somewhere else' - not Idaho - Minnesota. Here's something from Seattle's King5

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    Richard Aubrey: You may think Blaghdaddy is brain-dead for observing his perceived view of men not caring as much in general, but he begs to differ with the "unspeakable jerks" label. Let's put it this way: do you not admit that most male-dominated societies view rape as a shame upon the woman because his property is now damaged, to the extent that villages in some societies will take revenge upon the victim to redeem its collective honor? Do most male-dominated societies not also consciously or unconsciously "blame" rape victims, stating that either "she was asking for it," or "she didn't fight hard enough, the slut was only pretending to say 'no,'" or the classic "she shouldn't have put herself in that position?" Case in point: Blaghdaddy himself is guilty of not particularly caring what happened to Natalee Holloway if she indeed got drunk in a bar and wandered off unattended with three strange motherf#ckers in a foreign f#cking country. But that is not blaming a potential rape victim for being raped...no one deserves that. What Blaghaddy would blame this girl for is gross stupidity on a level inviting catastrophe...like he would call you a ninny if you left your child unattended in the bathtub and let it drown. You don't deserve to have lost your child, but you sure as hell were responsible for bringing it about, weren't you? So a girl like Natalee does not show Blaghdaddy to be heartless towards rape victims, but rather impatient with idiots of all brands. A girl who gets raped deserves the honor of pouring acid upon someone who suggests she's to blame...a girl has a right to walk down a street in daylight (not in the dark, let's not be retarded), or sleep in her own bed, or the bed of a sleepover friend, without being treated like a fetish doll. And Blaghdaddy doesn't see men getting as broken up about it as do the child victims and women to whom it happens. Blaghdaddy is biased, however, because even though he's a man, he views the physical violation of anyone with the same loathing and disgust as if he were having it forced upon him, and cannot contemplate even the thought of pity for someone who would rape him... and every rape victim is a him or her, just not you if you're lucky... So, as Blagh would wish death upon someone who raped or molested him, he wishes the same upon every perpetrator and wishes every man in power felt the same... There are very few things Blagh views as deserving of death, because of its finality, but regardless of what made them this way, Blagh views rapists and child molesters the same way he does rabid dogs- it's not their fault they're foaming mad either, but let's stomp both of these motherf#ckers so society is safe... The end.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy,

    You sang that so good, they had to post it three times!

    Your outrage over these horrendous crimes matches my own. Too often, these perps are set free to watch and wait for their next victims. Why? Just as you said, the system doesn't deem these criminals as threatening enough to them. Instead, they would rather fill the prisons with pot smokers. God forbid one of them might lead a child astray. Meanwhile, these monsters are lurking around schools and playgrounds, just waiting for a chance. If they do get caught, you can bet they'll be back out there again.

    Lock them up, throw away the key!

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#21)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    Blagh. You were not here when we had this conversation about some other perp. I was in favor of lengthy (life) sentences,post-sentencing incarceration by virtue of involuntary institutionalization, and castration without benefit of anesthetic. You will not be surprised to know who was the bad guy, lacking in compassion, etc. Of course, this being a defense attorney's board, nobody is ever guilty except wealthy, straight, white males, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. As to your observations about male-dominated societies, you may be right, but you're not pc. You are speaking of tribal societies mired in ancient ways, some, or many, adhering to a religion known as ROPMSAF (Religion of Peace My Sweet Aunt Fanny). Talked to some missionaries from Africa who are attempting to better the lot of widows in pagan societies and discussed this in passing. Same stuff, to coin a euphemism. In western societies, as far as I can discern, it's not that way. However, there are those whose grip on self-worth is shaky who find it useful to impute such motives to their fellow citizens in order to facilitate feeling superior to them. I suggest your lack of interest in Holloway is a result of the distance phenomenon, not any failure of being properly raised. Also, Stalin was on point when he said a single death is a tragedy [for somebody else, he probably wasn't referring to himself] while a million deaths is a statistic. During the worst days of the beginning of WW II, when the news was overwhelmingly bad, Churchill was asked how he managed to stand up under it. The mind, he said, is like a three-inch pipe. Once it's taken in all the water it can handle, no more water, however much there is, can actually enter. Sloppy metaphor but you see the point. So, anyway, self-righteous, unspeakable jerks.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#22)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    This is pretty creepy, having this guy take an interest in your site. It's not something I would boast about. It's interesting that he compares himself to Jews and Blacks -- oppressed peoples. That's the kind of mindset such predators have, being able to justify their actions by viewing themselves as oppressed. No doubt he was able to rationalize caving in those peoples skulls and raping that little girl in this way. In my opinion such people are too dangerous to let live, executing them is a matter of public safety. How unfortunate that the legal system allowed him to be released on bail after he was accused of raping or molesting a child. This kind of behavior is typical of such criminals, when they see the possibility of being incarcerated again looming on the horizon, they feel they have nothing to lose, so any inhibitions about murdering people in attempt to cover up their crimes is lost. Sadly those murderers could have been prevented by the judge in this case who should have remanded him to custody without bail, especially given that he already had a history of these types of offenses. Once again the American judicial system fails everyone.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    I wasn't boasting about it. I was reporting it since I received several emails and his blog is showing up in TalkLeft's stats. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me either. TChris and I have often written about our criticism of sex offender registration laws - particularly their inability to distinguish between violent predators and peeping toms - and the deleterious effects the laws have on released offenders seeking jobs, housing, etc.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#24)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    I read through the first months of the archives on his blog January 2004 (BE WARNED BEFORE YOU CLICK ON THIS LINK, PEOPLE HAVE ATTACHED WORMS TO THIS WEB SITE, SO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN UPDATED VIRUS SCAN WORKING) January 2004 I must say it was some fascinating reading. This guy spent some 20 years in prison beginning when he was 16 for raping another boy, no surprise that he has a history of sexual abuse as a child himself. He's obviously a bright guy, but it's also obvious that he's worked really hard to place himself in the position of the victim, likening himself to African Americans and Jews, apparently trying to rationalize his dilemma. But his words have some real truths to them and I think that his behavior is directly attributable to the way society copes with sex crimes and those who perpetrate them. And how society also ignores the sexual abuse perpetrated upon these people. I don't think I've read anything about the sexual abuse he suffered as a child in any of the news articles I've read. And I think that speaks volumes about how society doesn't want to look at the larger issues involved and the exponential way in which this kind of abuse spreads and damages society in a number of ways. Or how such people who start off sexually abusing and raping eventually wind up killing their victims and anyone who can connect them to the crimes in the apparent hope of avoiding going back to prison. Our prisons seem to do an excellent job of turning sex abusers and rapists into rapist murderers.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:52 PM EST
    The telling detail is that he got to use the internet while in prison. If I can read TL after I get arrested for pot, I might be ok with it.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    "particularly their [the sex offender registration laws] inability to distinguish between violent predators and peeping toms" Lest anyone accept this statement carte blanche, the truth is sex offender registration laws vary widely from state to state and, in many states, absolutely do distinguish between violent predators and peeping toms. In CA for example, only certain sexual criminals (the worst ones) require registration, and the registered sex offender database lists the actual crimes committed by offender - and, in CA, they are always predatory crimes, violent in nature and/or with children as the victims. Nary a "peeping tom" amongst them. I'm not sure why TL continues to be less than truthful on this issue.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    After further reading and thought, I can only conclude that the real story here will never be known. His childhood abuse is no doubt real, as almost all sex offenders of his type came from abusive upbringings. As for his contention he thought abuse and sex offending was normal, that held water when he was a kid, but there is nothing to suggest he didn't know it wasn't just not normal but also sadistic and criminal. He chose, under great mental torment no doubt, to throw a violent tantrum. He chose to do it, clearly. And because of that, I have no sympathy for him, even as a survivor of abuse myself. Pity yes, sympathy no. The truth is, since I've become a father, my perception has changed. If I'm some single guy, what do I care if some released molester lives near me? But with a five year-old son, the reality of the protective instinct hits me every day. And that is the conflict that will NEVER let this issue be dealt with to everyone's satisfaction. Offenders who have targeted children, no matter the reasons or their own childhood abuse, will ALWAYS be viewed and treated differently precisely because parents (even those I think largely incompetent) cannot rationally be expected to turn off their nature. And their nature is to protect. When a child molester is released into the neighborhood, it is just not rational to expect anything but a lot of anger and opposition. I hate to say it, J, but you would feel the same way if you had a toddler running around your house that came from your womb. A cliche but it is absolutely true, as some cliches are. And this is what makes living real life impossibly difficult. Sometimes there are simply no answers, no solutions, no endings that please everyone. Being a rational creature in a cold, indifferent, irrational universe comes with that burden sometimes. Shasta is alive. The only good here.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#28)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Jeez, sarcastic. Untruthfulness is GOOD. In Michigan, the registry has both numeric entries ("second degree") and descriptors. The latter are not always present, but the former always are and anybody who has a glossary or whatever it is can read it perfectly well. Maybe having to know what the code cites are is unreasonable.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    RA - I'm also somewhat familiar with the NJ and NY databases (through searching for the pedophile who abused me and my best friend when we were in the 4th or 5th grade) and both of these states distinguish among offenders as well. Because TChris is much more apt to proclaim half-truths here than Jeralyn (which makes me wonder about what he says in court), her comment above suprises me - especially considering how many times this type of repeated proclamation of theirs has been proven less than truthful.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    All this talk about the registry and it DID NOT WORK. I agree with RA for a change, why a 15k bond in Minnesota? What failed here to me is the bond and what had no positive effect was the registry. It can be argued that the registry, after reading this jerkoffs blog, contributed to his next criminal endeavor which turned deadly. So tell me, what purpose do the registries serve? If they are not preventing crime and more than likely causing offenders to be more violent, how is that a good thing? I don't want a depressed, unemployable, pissed at the world sex offender living next to me and with the registries, it sounds very much like what is being created.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    The registry system hasn't worked well, but even that avoids the real issue. This cat is WAY outta the bag. Child molesters, pedophiles, these are the sex offenders we are mainly talking about. And there will NEVER be a time when a child rapist will be released and his crime kept secret or his locale. Society, rightly or wrongly, is just not going to tolerate it, this is how it has evolved. The world is both too large now and too small. And that is what makes it scary for most folks. More people to worry about, and technology making the world smaller, making it easier for offenders to contact each other or potential victims. We know we can hardly control that, but we can, without much effort, make the physical aspect of release impossible, which is what has essentially happened. I don't agree it is the most enlightened path, but this is the realit we are faced with, and wishing it weren't so isn't going to change a thing. This is part of our media culture, the images and stories that inundate us every day, and make the heinous exceptions seem like the everyday rule. We have become as much prisoners of our own making as the offenders we fear. And THAT is what we are really up against. The power of popular/media/entertainment culture in shaping not just our perceptions but also our realities. Since perception really IS reality in many ways. Again, I'm not pro or con in this post, merely stating what appears to me a quite immovable current social reality.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#32)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    “All this talk about the registry and it DID NOT WORK.” Hard to say. By his own admission he was a liberal offender (reoffender?), essentially exposing all children he came in contact with to a certain amount of risk. How many parents in his former neighborhoods were aware of him through the offender registry? How many of these parents changed their habits accordingly? Twice I have used the sex offender registry in my state to scrutinize the jogging routes my wife uses. Both times there were no rapists on her rout. However, it is hardly a stretch to imagine the circumstance where my wife or any other woman in the know did not cross the radar of a rapist through a simple change in habit instigated by a registry. Obviously the registry didn’t keep these particular children from harms way. This is terribly far from showing the registry didn’t work or otherwise contributed to his criminal behavior. What can be said about a man who only need be branded a child rapist on the internet to take ‘revenge’ by raping and murdering children? Simply the mans life has no positive value, but rather a deficit of value; better dead than alive. Justice failed long before this man was registered.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Jl - unless and until it can be proven that the registeries don't prevent crime, rather than didn't in some specific cases, they will likely continue to exist. And, unless and until it can be proven that registeries caused this jerkoff - or any jerkoff - to be more violent, and that the violence was not entirely the domain of the jerkoff himself, they will likely continue to exist.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    PW, sound argument but does not prove or disprove the assertion. He murdered in Idaho, lived in Fargo, what good did the registry do? He molested a boy in Minnesota, he lived in Fargo. With 34000 people on the registry I would say that you and your wife would have a hard time memorizing every one of them. I cannot find one single statistic nor any anecdotal information supporting a reduction in repeat offenses or crime prevention as a result of the registry. What it does create is a sense of fear and paranoia and vigilantism for the neighbors and desperation and isolationism for the accused. I have no idea why the jerkoff flipped, other than he felt stigmatized and ostracized as a result of the registry. Could be that he was just a time bomb and would have reoffended anyway, but let's at least maintain some intellectual honesty here. It is not just the branding, it is trying to regain some sense of normalcy in your life with a great portion of your neighbors hating you and wishing you were dead or gone. Again, what good do the registries do and how have they reduced reoffending and are they causing more violence from repeat offenders?

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    SU: I don't think it will ever be proven either way, don't know how they would really. As far as whether or not it makes offenders more prone to violence and reoffending, there has been some discussion on that very topic although it may be several years before there is any level of consensus in the psychiatric community. Until then i guess it is wait and see.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#36)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    “With 34000 people on the registry I would say that you and your wife would have a hard time memorizing every one of them.” I believe there is value in avoiding the forefront of a rapists notice. Given the option of trivial alterations in routine to avoid a violent rapist I think most would make the change. It is more likely common sense than paranoia. “He murdered in Idaho, lived in Fargo, what good did the registry do?” As I noted in my earlier post it didn’t help these particular children. Neither of us knows what changes his previous neighbors made and what may have been if they had acted otherwise. Lets say I knew my neighbor’s kid had been jailed a couple of times for stealing car stereos and further I just installed one in my own car. What would you think of my judgment if I did all of the work in plain view over the course of a couple of days? Would you think better if I had taken precautions to hide the work and further concealed the equipment whenever the thief was nearby? It seems self evident that I have a greater likelihood of having my equipment taken had I unknowingly advertised the installation in the presence of a thief than the analogous ‘revenge’ scenario; the thief was outed on the internet, I took the precautions I described, but angry with being marked a thief he took ‘revenge’ by breaking into my car as a random act despite my precautions.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    PW, so let me see if i have this correct. you are comparing putting a stereo in your car in front of a stereo thief with jogging near a sex offender? I will assume that it has nothing to do with what your wife is wearing and simply all to do with someone running alone thereby making them vulnerable. I for one would like to see statistics as to how many violent sexual assaults happen near the perpetrators home. My guess is that most are happening away from their residence for obvious reasons (identification is the most obvious). Being that i am speculating about the proximity of assault to their home residence the argument would appear to fall flat. However, every one of the abduction murder of kids that I have read about in the past 2 years have been people that were not residing close to the victim (save for the family friend in Florida). As far as the stereo thief...If he is not finding work, is being harassed by his neighbors, is feeling hopeless that he cannot find a job or friends because he is a radio thief, my guess is he will steal your radio. This analogy does not work because there is not much stigma attached to a radio thief, most in the neighborhood would ignore it and say "aw, he just made a mistake". With our kids at stake and our wives, we are a lot less forgiving. So please forgive me if I say that the analogy is ridiculous. I agree with you in principle about what steps the neighbors took from his neighborhood and there is no way of knowing if it prevented a crime there. PW, you seem to have a decent grip on basic psychiatric principles (from other posts) I cannot understand why you are not seeing any cause effect on this one.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#38)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    “so let me see if i have this correct. you are comparing putting a stereo in your car in front of a stereo thief with jogging near a sex offender?” Yes. Both criminals have a character deficit, although we can agree one is worse. “I for one would like to see statistics as to how many violent sexual assaults happen near the perpetrators home.” From an FBI sponsored study of serial offenders …“rapists living and raping within one city or urban area generally lived within 3.14 miles of their offenses, and traveled no farther than 4.93 miles to perpetrate their crimes. Almost half of all rapists attacked within one half mile of their home.” Most women are raped by a family member or acquaintance and consequently most rapes occur in or near the victim’s home. The proximity argument works equally well for relational proximity as well as geographic. One could just as easily search the database for an acquaintance. Run a prospective date or employee through the database. “I cannot understand why you are not seeing any cause effect on this one.” If a potential rapist's brace against indulging their sadistic appetite is so tenuous that this kind of frustration and anger can prompt them to rape they either belong in jail or dead. Your argument would have a bit more weight if you were instead advocating life terms while bemoaning the ineffectiveness of the registry as a sideline.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    JL - you are trying to pin this guy's violent behavior on the registry, and make a generalization that the registry causes otherwise non-violent sexual offenders to become violent. That's going to be a tough sell. Regardless of the self-serving rationalizations he made public on his blog, he chose his actions of his own free will - the only "cause" was that he wanted to do these things, and then chose, of his own free will, to do them. For example, of the 34,000 on the list that you speak of, how many can you say with certainty were non-violent before the registery, and have become violent after? And how may of those can you say with certainty became violent because of the registery? Regardless of the actual number, that even one of the 34,000 was a previously non-violent sex offender and yet has not become violent after his registration, proves that violence is a personal choice - some choose to be violent and some choose not to. I'm sure that all who do choose violence feel their actions are justified, but that sure doesn't mean their actions are justified. Plenty of folks are dealt much worse hands in life than than an RSO, and they don't choose to be violent.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    I specifically noted "violent" sexual assaults as I know that statistics are available for rape, my problem with that statistic is that it includes family and date rape, which I don't believe we are talking about here. PW: Look at my first post, which clearly implies TOUGHER sentencing. Perhaps you missed that as I did not put it in every post but I am all for fewer laws and stricter enforcement. I see we disagree on cause and effect and the level of difficulty in leading any type of life upon release. I can accept that, although I think you are wrong. Most women are raped by a family member or acquaintance and consequently most rapes occur in or near the victim’s home. I think this says it all. I want to know about violent rapes where they are not being date raped (still bad) or raped by a relative, or raped by the guy who had 12 cats but seemed so sweet. I have yet to find any statistics on violent offenders and proximity. Perhaps you know of one and can direct me.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#41)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    SU: I am sorry if it sounds as if I am pinning it on the registry, I am not. I believe I said that I do not know what set the jerkoff off, but I do not believe that the registry helped. I think the registry is a contributing factor and will continue to be so. I don't disagree with the free will argument either SU, he could have gone to a priest, a social worker a shrink hell anyone and talked it out, but the problem of being labeled with the letter M (molester) would have always haunted him. You are also correct that I have no idea what the statistics are, it is too early to tell and it is just starting to catch some tread. Maybe I am wrong, but maybe I am not. I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why the registries work and that is the crux of my argument. The rest are tantamount to sidebars...

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#42)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    “I want to know about violent rapes where they are not being date raped (still bad) or raped by a relative, or raped by the guy who had 12 cats but seemed so sweet. I have yet to find any statistics on violent offenders and proximity.” That was the subject of the study I cited, again …” rapists living and raping within one city or urban area generally lived within 3.14 miles of their offenses, and traveled no farther than 4.93 miles to perpetrate their crimes. Almost half of all rapists attacked within one half mile of their home.” Temporal Sequencing and Cognitive Mapping of Serial Rapists

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    "I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why the registries work" Well, it's certainly your choice as to what's compelling or not to you.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    Thanks PW. I missed the "serial" which was definitely the operative word there and critical to your argument. I guess I am moving to your side of the argument for Level 2-3 offenders and repeat offenders although it does seem to me to be a "life-time" sentence. I guess I can move with some reticence to the efficacy of listing Level 2-3 offenders and re-offenders to the registry but I cannot move on my thinking to one time offenders or non-violent offenders. However, I still believe that the registry will be a strong factor in reoffending which causes me serious concern. SU: Thanks for the argument, I know some people ride you in here but I don't believe I have ever had a discussion with you where I did not think you were being disingenuous or malicious. I disagree with you often and PW on occasion but your arguments are consistently coherent and sans emotional hyperbole.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#45)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    For those who consider the science of mental health next to physics, it turns out the guy got a get-out-of-jail-free card from the witch doctors. Not a threat.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#46)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    RA, was that the parole board or a psychiatrist?

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#47)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    JL. The paper I read referred to a mental health professional--or board--not clear. Did not refer to a parole board. If they had, come to think of it, referred to a parole board, then maybe we should think seriously of replacing parole boards with a coin. For tossing. This is going uphill against my parochialism. When I needed a degree for OCS, I chose to major in psychology. Where, among other things, I learned how little anybody knows for sure, which is different from holding strong opinions. That's why I am more than suspicious about trying to figure out whether somebody is going to reform himself. We don't know jack about such things.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#48)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    I read it as a member of the parole board so I am still unclear so I am hesitant to call for a review of psych evals. I still believe they tend to err on the side of conservativeness as opposed to "giving someone a chance". I don't think that one case serves as an indictment for parole boards or the psych profession, but certainly this guy should not have been released to the general public. I am far more incensed that he got parole in Minnesota which just seems indefensible to me.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#49)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    As I read it, the parole board took the shrink(s) word for the situation. If the parole board did this all by themselves, we have a problem. If the mental health professionals gave the parole board the green light, we have a problem. Both problems are systemic. And this is in no way a "single" case, but is representative of many, many others. IMO, if a parole board could be said to know their business, they'd be able to get malpractice insurance. Instead, we have sovereign immunity. That ought to tell you something.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:57 PM EST
    I guess the question than RA is how many? And how is representative of the number of offenders released every year and statistically how do the numbers vary on the associative levels of classification. Not that one is not too many because I agree with you that the heinousness of this crime is incredible. I believe that lifetime assessments (bi-monthly) would be far more conducive to reducing the threat than the registries and stricter sentencing although he was sentenced to 20 years and served 14. I don't think the answer would be natural life for every offender but it does seem that some, especially in this case should be monitored much more closely. I know the argument about who pays for the bi-monthly psych evals will come up but it has to be less than incarcerating the person.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#51)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:57 PM EST
    Crap. Damn all pop-ups to hell. Starting over. JL. One thing I learned in studying psychology is that it is easy to game an eval. The bad guys game parole boards all the time. They game the classes they have to take in prison. They learn what the instructors want to hear. I learned elsewhere (your, your parents' or your grandparents' tax dollars at work) that it isn't easy to game a polygraph, but it can be done, and how. I've had sodium pentothal and don't think it will work all that well, although it has possibilities. But drugging a perp six times a year, or interpreting a lie detector read-out (not to mention administering one) bi-monthly would be prohibitive and a likely target for civil libertarians and cost-cutters. And, as I say, it probably wouldn't work very well. For all the certainty with which the mental health professionals speak--they don't have much more than an elementary clue.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:58 PM EST
    JL - thanks for the kind words. I am, by careful design, who I want to be here on TL. I used to post under a different moniker on TL, and found that as I developed relationships (if you can call them that) with the others on this board, I was unable to be as honest with them as I would have liked to be - kind of an Emperor's New Clothes syndrome. So now, absent that baggage, I speak the truth (as I see it) bluntly and clearly. Anyway: "but I cannot move on my thinking to [requiring the registration of] one time offenders or non-violent offenders." You are speaking here in the abstract, as I said yesterday, every state has different RSO laws. Which states have RSO laws that you disagree with? You might find that you disagree with fewer than you imagine.

    Re: Sex Offender Was a Blogger (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    I am a convicted sex offender and is in counseling now for what i have done. i take full responsibility for what i have done. i serve time in prison and currently on the sex offender registry in my state.i obey all of the rules of my probation,counseling and the registry. all i here is that all sex offenders will reoffend again. why do you always talk about the offenders who reoffend again and not hte ones who never do it again. all of you are putting us in one catagory and not looking at each indiviual one. that's like putting all whites,blacks, mexicanes,etc. in one catagory. they are all different and should not be catagorized.that's my opinion and if you do not like tough. i could care less.