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California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Over 14 as Adults

By Jeralyn, Section Juvenile Offenders
Posted on Thu May 12, 2005 at 06:09:26 PM EST
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In response to a rape, a California legislator has introduced a bill that would require all juveniles 14 and over to be charged as adults for felony sex offenses--and other crimes, including crimes involving sale of more than 1/2 ounce of a controlled substance. It would take away deferred judgments. The bill was defeated twice in Committee, but its sponsors are not giving up.

The purpose of this bill is to 1) statutorily exclude minors alleged to have committed specified sex offenses from eligibility for deferred entry of judgment, as enacted by Proposition 21 in 2000; and 2) change a provision of Proposition 21, concerning the eligibility of minors to be tried directly in adult court, by lowering a cited age from 16 to 14, as specified.

Ian of Political Teen has put up the video of my debate with Hannity and Colmes the other night. It was the two of them against me, and it was....spirited.

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    California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Over 14 as Adults | 13 comments (13 topical)
    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Wow, what morons. They really do just talk right past you. I like how at the end it seemed like Hannity was agreeing with you, saying "I don't get that" but then it turned into "I think it's time for a commercial break." Keep giving 'em hell. :)

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#2)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    ...but yeah, ultimately it's the same old Republican bait-and-switch. You call them on the specifics of the bill, they answer "But how can you let this crime happen again?!" Even if you go out of your way to point out that accounting for this crime and trying all juveniles as adults are completely unrelated ideas, they pretend not to notice, and then go to a commercial. What a big man that Hannity is. Just like the Patriot Act - there's no legislation bad enough that Republicans won't pretend it is designed to make up for some notorious event.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#3)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    There is a time to dance.... and a time not to dance. Did I just make that up? The drug issue aside, how young is adult, do you think, for things like getting an abortion without parental consent, consenting to sex with an adult (so as to avoid the older person getting the statutory rape thingy), signing a contract? Is there any reason to have different ages for these things, and, if so, what is it, and why is rape to be yanked up their toward the older ages while others are fourteen, or twelve?

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#4)
    by expertlaw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    I have to say this - I cannot believe that Sean Hannity did not understand your argument. If he did, he doesn't have the intellect to have risen to his present position. I think he's actually smart enough to know that his viewers appreciate his snarkiness over any form of reasoned debate. The larger question is whether his fan base has the intellect to understand your argument, or the deficiencies of his; I don't know - perhaps they watch it for the snark factor - but it does appear that Hannity assumes that his fans lack that capacity.
    Is there any reason to have different ages for these things, and, if so, what is it, and why is rape to be yanked up their toward the older ages while others are fourteen, or twelve?
    Perhaps you think people drive at fourteen or twelve? Purchase alcohol at fourteen or twelve? Vote at fourteen or twelve? Drive at fourteen or twelve? Can enlist in the armed forces at fourteen or twelve? Can purchase cigarettes at fourteen or twelve? Can drop out of school at fourteen or twelve? Sign a non-voidable contract at fourteen or twelve? C'mon. Without delving into the history of the various ages, and the rather obvious public policy behind both setting minimum ages and behind applying different ages for different activities, if you want to propose that children should be treated as adults at an early age, you should present an argument as to why that age should be at the lower end of the scale.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Alan Colmes is a major neocon butt licker.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#6)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    According to my sources, AB 520 was pulled from the education committee this morning, which I believe effectively kills it.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#7)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    the fact is my state has been doing its best to put little insane kids in adult prisons for years now and i mean in the same cell as adults, in fact many juveniles are now behind bars in adult prisons but not yet in the same cell's, but we will see this soon in the land of freedom and justice. but don't "miss-understand me" many of the kids now inside the walls of our political gang ran prison system, have it "coming" but not all the kids are as evil as you think, it is culture that has no understanding of why so much crime is happening inside is little world, don't be fooled by the left or right, see it for what it is, not what you think it is.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Richard, Do a tad bit of homework on the adolescent brain. It is NOT and adult brain, and can be scientifically proven so. And if you think a thirteen or fourteen year-old should be forced to have a baby against their will, well, we have more than a major disagreement. Peace, my friend.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Dadler, Using science to argue with RA is a WOT.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    che, one can always try. the high ground does get lonely, tho. jeralyn, bless you, my child. i can't imagine having to attempt a rational discussion with those two nitwits. colmes is either entirely a fraud or almost entirely retarded. does he need his job on fox that much that he has to pretend he doesn't get your point? or that what he's arguing is so inarguable and off the actual point that it's not even debate anymore, it's let's see who can agree the fastest.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    one more point, and this is very ironic now that i've thought about it. all these folks who think young teens should be tried as adults, how many of them do you think have ever visited junenile court or, worse, juvenile hall. there was something so much more desperate and depressing about juvie than adult prison or courts. because these are kids, and they're not adults, and most of the adults in their lives haven't done a damn thing to raise them. of course there are exceptions, but my mother has been working with at-risk youth her entire career, kids so f'd up you can hardly imagine, and do you think most of them come from functional, loving families? and do you think, in lieu of that, society offers them any kind of lifeboat or safety net? we offer them a very heavy anchor and say "hang on" as we toss it into the water.

    Re: California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Ov (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Richard, I'm not ready to give up on you yet lol. Your point is valid in that it is often raised. As a developmental psychologist I can tell you that 14 year old brains are not finished growing physically. The part of the brain that "processes" decision making (the pre-frontal cortex) is not developed enough to process all the information coming into it and sort it all out into "the right thing to do". On an anecdotal level this translates into me running away from my abusive family at 14 and deciding to walk to New Hampshire and live on apples in the orchards. Clearly no long-term rational thinking there. Perhaps you can recall an idiotic thing or two you did at 14 for which the consequences are dire. Additionally you are in the midst of raging hormones that affect problem solving and decision making. Now that's the average juvenile, who usually manages, through good upbringing and sheer luck to survive these years relatively unscathed. If you were abused as a child, or not given a sense of selfworth, or if the world seems confusing or scary to you, this sudden brain growth and hormone rushes can get you into a lot of situations where you have no real view of the consequences - or don't think you care. In other words, if you're a bad parent, ages 13-15 is when the hens are going to come home to roost. Many 14 year olds exhibit defiance and self destructive attitudes. The world doesn't care about them so they don't care about it. However, Richard, at what age are we willing to throw away people. If you're living with a tribe in a jungle and your life expectancy is 40 (with limited career options!) then 14 is the "coming of age" to manhood - a 14 year old can get married, have a family and is considered "responsible" and adult. However, if I had married my first boyfriend, given how much I have changed and grown since 14 (with about 30 years to do it!)I think, especially for a victim of sexual abuse who might be acting out inappropriately, sending this kid to be further victimized in jail is the State engaging in child abuse. Can't we do better than this, Richard?

    For some crimes perhaps (none / 0) (#13)
    by katmandu on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 06:16:02 PM EST
    Even a 14 year old should know rape, murder,
    and other major crimes are wrong.
    I don't see the point of a 14 year old getting
    out of prison for rape just because he reaches
    18.
    My sympathies are with the victims, and rape can
    destroy a life.  Why should the perp be handled
    with kid gloves?
    California Bill to Charge All Sex Offenders Over 14 as Adults | 13 comments (13 topical)