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Taser Death in Phoenix

by TChris

Another person -- this one in Phoenix -- has died after being shot with a Taser. TalkLeft's prior coverage of the controversy surrounding police reliance on Tasers is collected here.

An ongoing Arizona Republic investigation has found that at least 109 people have died in the United States and Canada following police Taser strikes since 1999.

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  • Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    Several million-dollar lawsuits are in the pipe, and after they pay out to grieving families, these new toys will join the others on the trash pile. And then we can all thank Rudy Giuliani and Bernie Kerik for pushing these little death boxes, and making millions (somehow). Kerik sold $8 million in stock -- where did he get that kind of money on his commish salary? Or did he get the money from his one month Iraq boondoggle? Making money killing people. It's a Republican value.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#2)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    I Think Paul in LA, Is dead on the money.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#3)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    I'm getting pretty sick of folks who say this is a 'less lethal' weapon. taser int'l's own website and press releases refer to it as "a market leader and manufacturer of advanced non-lethal technology" Non-lethal my foot! taser deaths are up 3 fold in this quarter from 2004 1st q.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#4)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    They are not deaths as a result of tasers, they are deaths after a taser has been used. There is a big difference. There are few, if any, actual deaths attributed directly and solely to the taser. They are truly less lethal. Someone here, if they feel so compelled can retrieve the stats from the internet easily enough. As the number of tasers that issued to law enforcement increase, so will the number of deaths that occur after they are used. Correlation does not equal causation. The real question is has the number of in-custody deaths increased in relationship to the number of arrests or is the ratio fairly stable?

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#5)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    Oh, of course all of those people would have died anyway. Drink some more kool-aid pat. Deaths up after tasering 3 fold over last year. Yep, no statistical significance there. And actually, fewer PD's are using them now so the uptick is VERY significant. Instead of channeling darly gates, try to learn some math. Taser Int'l says "less than lethal". They lied.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    BTW, try posting links for your absurd statement that " Correlation does not equal causation." Correlation can exactly equal causation, when the amount of use correlates to number of deaths.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#7)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    Oh, of course all of those people would have died anyway. Drink some more kool-aid pat.
    That's exactly the question that needs to be answered. Why don't you answer it instead of attacking me?
    And actually, fewer PD's are using them now so the uptick is VERY significant.
    Without calling you names, I'll ask that you provide a link which proves this comment, which I believe to be totally false. Is Daryl Gates dead? and yes, I should have said, correlation does not necessarily equal causation. I should have known a hairsplitter would have taken issue with that, but I figured my point was obvious enough that an adult would have gotten it.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    These things are perfect weapons for a police state.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    Patrick, why would you presume that just because you can have fit officers Tasering themselves and call that a study, WHERE is the study of the population to determine which persons have weak hearts, vulnerable anatomy and development (CHILDREN), or impairments like asthma that the stress of being shocked can trigger? Plenty of people, like several famous footballers, have died from congenital defects they were ignorant of. Plenty of people won't survive the cerebral impact of the blood pressure changes resulting from being shocked. They'll have strokes. So, nice pretense of logic and science, but a tiny amount of medical knowledge is sufficient to see how FOOLHARDY this kind of untested weaponry is. It will cost the cities who use it MILLIONS. And Giuliani won't refund a penny.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    The culture of torture.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    Hey, Patrick, it's off topic, but the FBI is leading the investigation of possible beating of Esteban Carpio. We are still on the record on that, right?

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#12)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    That's the trouble with experiments...they don't often replicate field conditions. When there is an issue as critical as life or death, although you cannot scientifically and unequivocally state that tasering "caused" all those deaths, the fact that over a hundred people died directly after they were tasered should be enough to pull tasers out of the hands of the police. Ban them. That is what a compassionate administration should do. IMHO.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#13)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    CA, Yes we are, and after his last incident, I'd say my position is looking pretty good.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#14)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    use nets, not electricity.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:43 PM EST
    patrick, i didn't call you names, I merely used a shorthand for the fact that you always tout the company line. WRT taser int'l, here is a link about how their stock has fallen due to the deaths.
    Taser International on Tuesday said its first-quarter earnings were zapped by questions about the safety of its stun guns. Sales dropped for the period, and the earnings news dragged shares down 1.4% in morning trading. The company's quarterly income was a mere $168,000 in the quarter, down from $3.6 million in the year-ago period.
    and
    Taser's stock has retreated more than 75 percent from an all-time high of $32.59 in late December as mounting pressure from critics prompted police departments nationwide to reconsider whether Tasers are necessary.
    WRT daryl gates; it was wishful thinking;-)

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#16)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:43 PM EST
    Sailor, The fact that one company's stock is lower is not proof that there are less tasers being used in arrest situations.

    Re: Taser Death in Phoenix (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:43 PM EST
    I think Carpio continues to be in a "florid" state of psychosis. His paranoia will not be helped by incarceration. He was off the deepend before he shot and killed Allen. I think he was nuts to jump from a third story window, but I still believe, and I bet the investigation is going to indicate that he took a major league thumping by the police when he was caught. I am not saying turn this guy loose. He's nuts and dangerous. Don't let him have a weapon under any circumstances right now. Let's get him diagnosed and treated like his family tried and let's try not to pound on him because he's nuts. I don't think a taser would help his mental state either. He needs anti-psychotic medication.