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The Pres and the Press

by TChris

The President's past drug use (like the past drug use of everyone else lucky enough to avoid arrest) is no big deal, although his hypocrisy on the subject is hard to stomach. Of greater interest -- at least to the Washington Post -- is the decision by most of the domestic mainstream media to downplay the story while the foreign press finds it noteworthy.

The divergent coverage of Bush's apparent drug use is a textbook study in the difference between the international online media and their American counterparts. On the issue of youthful illicit drug use, most U.S. news editors -- liberal, conservative or other -- defer to Bush in a way that their foreign counterparts do not.

Also interesting is the disparate domestic coverage of President Clinton (who never inhaled) versus President Bush (who never admits he inhaled). Can the difference be attributed to the success that conservatives have had in their efforts to perpetuate the myth of a "liberal media bias," and the media's fear that full coverage of the story would prompt more right-wing attacks?

If the big-name newspapers had played up the drug angle it's reasonable to assume that Republicans and conservatives on talk radio would renew such accusations. They might say liberal editors were dredging up an old story from a disloyal friend to thwart the agenda of a popular conservative president. Foreign editors (and local TV) have no such worries. They have a simpler view: George Bush using illegal drugs is worth a headline.

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  • Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 10:36:11 AM EST
    Bush can do no wrong!! He's built of teflon, didn't you know that???? And you know what, no one believed Clinton either!!!

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 10:39:39 AM EST
    Bush the real Entertainment and joy for us all, Bush the real entertaintment for the family. Yes my boy Bush, is a one of a kind, and god help us all. lets all hear it for Bush the head. pot anyone? lies anyone? business, political, death anyone, jobs anyone? no way its the Bush way! Or its the Mexican way! "nothing to see here move along" its only Bush with his God ways! "BCCI" And the control of the mass Media. By the way Bush needs to inhale something.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#3)
    by jerry on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 10:41:48 AM EST
    Maybe the reason the "mainstream" media isn't pouncing on Bush's past drug use is because the media realize they've spent four years trashing President Bush and trying to get Lurch elected. Didn't work out.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#4)
    by cp on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 10:46:08 AM EST
    not to be nitpicky or any thing, but why should the msm care what the mp's on conservative talk radio think? do they control their finances? they may well be trying to thwart this president's agenda. so? that doesn't make it any less of a story. if people don't like it, they will stop reading and paying, and advertizers will as well. i believe that's the real concern, fear of lost revenue, rather than fear of what limpdickbaugh thinks. nixon is rolling in his grave, pissed that he was 30 years too early. had watergate occurred now, no one would know about it, because the times, post, et al would be too fearful to publish it.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#5)
    by wishful on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 10:57:25 AM EST
    This is really about the tacit approval of the two-class system in the US. There are people in prison for what Bush and Clinton admitted to getting away with. Differen laws for different folks... And we're all proceeding as if there is no problem with this. Willful ignorance, anyone? Why anyone thinks this reflects well on democracy is beyond me. Several years ago, my old mother, as apolitical as they come but who lived richly, raised children and hepled to raise grandchildren, had an interesting experience. She refused to vote to convict a 19-yr.-old on a marijuana charge in the face of evidence that he did indeed have a joint in his sock at the time of a traffic stop (he was not the driver--I don't know if the driver was charged or not). She still doesn't know that there is actually a term for this--jury nullification. She said that she was convinced that he would not be able to afford to stay in college without the federal aid, which would be denied with this particular conviction. Would that we had more rational citizens.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 10:57:33 AM EST
    Damn that liberal media!

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:05:56 AM EST
    On a related note, I think there's a story behind how fast Doug Wead recanted, and turned his tapes over to the White House. Remember when Treasury Sec. O'Neill came out with his book, said he knows the Bush crowd can be vengeful but they can't scare him -- and then recanted a couple days later? Same thing with Bush's "faith-based" advisor DiIulio and others.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:08:18 AM EST
    Quick, somebody call Rush Limbaugh!

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:09:20 AM EST
    wishful - Your mom must be a brave person.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#10)
    by wishful on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:14:46 AM EST
    desertswine, you would like her. She doesn't know she's brave. She's just pure of heart. Even though she's 78 now, she still hasn't been corrupted by the world. Think Edith Bunker, without being so deferential.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:28:33 AM EST
    These days, honesty and compassion are very brave

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#12)
    by Molly on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:35:54 AM EST
    There are two scandals. One is Gannon and the other is the media. Different set of rules for dems. and repubs. Same as the justice system. Rush is still rushing and thousands have had their lives ruined for a joint.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#13)
    by nolo on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:46:03 AM EST
    Wishful -- great story!! I bet the prosecutors had no idea that your mom would be the "rogue" juror.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#14)
    by Patrick on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:46:07 AM EST
    Roger, What about personal responsibility? Yeah. Nice to see you posting again...

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:48:34 AM EST
    Money - and Influence - ride; Justice has to limp along as best it can. As at least a half million prisoners in the US know this the hard way, being punished for doing what both Clinton and Bush have apparently done and gotten away with. Which serves to point out that the DrugWar was and always has been a bipartisan affair. Those who wish to heap calumnies on only Bush in this regard had best ask their supposedly 'progressive' politicians why they have supported this madness year after year. Dumbos and Jackasses both deserve a sound drubbing for this.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:08:32 PM EST
    No question Bush has gotten special treatment. That "didn't inhale" comment of Clinton's came during an interview when the reporter (Marcia Kramer of CBS local in New York) told Clinton that he wouldn't get any other question until he answered about drug use; they would just sit in silence. When did Bush ever get treated like that? Of course, people who got to interview Bush always made it clear beforehand that they wouldn't ever ask him anything he didn't want to be asked. In fact, they would try to frame the question to make Bush look good.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:20:01 PM EST
    President Clinton (who never inhaled) Do you really believe this? I have no problem admitting that our press is unfair and unbalanced in many ways, but do you really believe Clinton when he said he didn't inhale?

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:39:09 PM EST
    I don't sarc, seems like an obvious political white lie to me. All that bothers me is the hypocrisy of Clinton and Bush. They both used drugs, and both endorse(d) policies to inprison drug users. What they put in their bodies is their business and no one elses, but you can't then turn around and inprison others for their lifestyle choices....textbook hypocrisy.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:39:41 PM EST
    Do I really believe Clinton never inhaled? Yes. At the time he was offered it in London--if you know the whole story--mary jane was often mixed with tobacco. It was cheap nasty weed and tobacco, so he passed on it but tried to get along by puffing it. It's such a stupid thing to say that I believe Clinton told the truth, for he is no dummy. I believe it, yes, but I could care less. Who does? It's none of my business. I hate the insanity around drug policy in this country. Any idiot on this thread who really believes there is a "liberal media" should just look at the way the Gannon story has been covered--hardly at all. Had Clinton been in office and the White House shoved in a prostitute to the press room to plant fake stories and lob softball questions the screaming from every outlet would have been non-stop. Instead all we get is silence. It's rankly disgusting the way the filthy republicans stay silent about this just out of loyalty. Why in the hell are you being loyal to war felons who hire prostitutes as fake press people? What shinging priniciples, what morals and integrity the Republicans have. Gawd. The whole "liberal media" canard simply came out of the Republican's horror that the media tells the truth, or at least used to. The truth hurts Republicans, so they hate it.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#20)
    by Rich on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:40:19 PM EST
    The sad thing is that past drug use is relevant especially if drug treatment, drug interdiction, or senetencing of drug offenders are public policy issues, which they are. The irony of the MSM (which in public health stands for "men who have sex with men, BTW) is that they get so concerned with "access", yet they are totally shut out of any meaningful news. Well, unless they are a connected male sex worker. The real issue is probably corporate control. Otherwise, a very smart news organization would send its skilled reporters to be like Seymour Hirsch and find the news in the government and send nobodies and newbies to the WH to do dictation.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:40:29 PM EST
    As to the press, it seems obvious to me that Bush is getting an easier go of it than Clinton did.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#22)
    by roy on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:44:32 PM EST
    I wonder how this looks to the right... Bush smoked pot, never lied about it, and kept it a secret to protect(*) the children by being a drug-free role model. Clinton smoked pot, lied about inhaling(**), and set a bad example for the children by hiding behind technicalities. The media is giving about the same, small, amount of coverage to Bush as it did to Clinton. Not counting comedians, because Clinton's lines were funnier. Probably seems fair overall. (*)Yes, it's hypocritical to protect the children by hiding his own drug use while breaking up families to imprison drug offenders. (**)No, there's no real evidence he inhaled, but it seems obvious to anybody who didn't already like Clinton.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#23)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 12:50:52 PM EST
    ďAs to the press, it seems obvious to me that Bush is getting an easier go of it than Clinton did.Ē Iíve noticed a marked move to the right in the so-called MSM since Nov.2 . Just a few years ago there was a very noticeable liberal bias in most news outlets, now I see many curbing this or an outright right bias. It makes it that much more difficult to sort through the crap; now that it is coming from all sides.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#24)
    by wishful on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    What was that Bush quote about drugs? He wanted to protect the children from drugs by pretending he never indulged, saying he never wanted to hear a child say, "Daddy, President Bush used illegal drugs..." I suppose, like roy points out, it doesn't bother Bush a bit to hear a little child say, "Mommy, why is daddy going to be in prison till I'm 28 years old, and why can't we get me that operation I need to fix my arm? And why can't we have three meals a day like Johnny?"

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:13:39 PM EST
    Iíve noticed a marked move to the right in the so-called MSM since Nov.2
    access is required so its probably because of the don't piss on the hand that feeds you, or don't bite the wind or some sheeesh like that.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:14:50 PM EST
    Or, god forbid, Bush or Clinton admit experimenting with drugs is no friggin' big deal, and certainly not worth sending someone poor slob to jail.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:15:18 PM EST
    s/b some poor slob.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#28)
    by roy on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:16:38 PM EST
    I suppose, like roy points out....
    I said he was a hypocrite, not a heartless automaton. You misunderstand your enemy when you demonize Bush like that. It's not that he doesn't care, he just has different answers than you do.
    why is daddy going to be in prison....
    Because he screwd up, and we need to set an example that discourages others from screwing up.
    why can't we get me that operation I need to fix my arm....
    Because doctors can't make much profit offering services at low prices.
    And why can't we have three meals a day like Johnny?
    Because mommy shagged(*) a deadbeat.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:20:33 PM EST
    (**)No, there's no real evidence he inhaled, but it seems obvious to anybody who didn't already like Clinton.
    but you take bushCo's word at value, and spread it like gospel, regardless of the evidence, which suggest he may be less than truthful. while it seems obvious to anybody who didn't already like W. (hardTruth) because he's actually being a f@@@king liar!!! (/hardTruth)

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:24:33 PM EST
    roy at February 24, 2005 02:16 PM certifies himself as troll. note: idiotic nonsense presented as logic is still idiotic nonsense.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:41:43 PM EST
    kdog I went through a period of shoplifting when I was younger, but I sure don't enodorse theft today. Does that make me a hypocrit? If so, I gladly take the label.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:45:20 PM EST
    idiotic nonsense presented as logic is still idiotic nonsense. As "Hardleft" demonstrates on a semi-regular basis. PS: Go easy on the bold, it makes you look like a frothing moron.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#33)
    by wishful on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:47:58 PM EST
    why is daddy going to be in prison.... Because he screwd up, and we need to set an example that discourages others from screwing up.
    The idea of setting an example that discourages others from screwing up needs to be consistent to be effective. Unless you meant that the example of poor slobs who screw up go to prison, whereas well-positioned hypocrites who screw up get to pretend that they didn't screw up so that they don't set a bad example. This is just too rich.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#34)
    by wishful on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:50:52 PM EST
    sarcastic, do you know the difference between "endorse", and "suffer the consequences as proscribed by law"?

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:55:32 PM EST
    sarc....shoplifting is a crime with a victim...big difference. And I'm not saying they should endorse drug use...I'm just saying they shouldn't endorse putting people in jail over it. And admit it is quite common and not the "end of the world". Our last two presidents experimented in their youth (Bush into middle age), and they grew up to be president! Can't be all bad, eh?

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:56:26 PM EST
    This is just too rich.
    I hear that wishful, you can't make this stuff up!

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:03:59 PM EST
    Our last two presidents experimented in their youth (Bush into middle age), and they grew up to be president! Can't be all bad, eh? Thats exactly the kind of simplistic, irresponsible, juvenile line of thinking Bush had the decency to preempt. Ironic. (You're still tops Kdog).

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:05:08 PM EST
    Like Jesus Christ dying for us, I believe George Bush smoked for us. I believe it was the hand of God that lit his doobies, just as it was God who first made him a drunkard. I believe God had President Bush arrested three times. Only by being a despicable youth, trying all the temptations that Satan can throw at a person, could George W. Bush know what he's talking about when he tells us now how to live our lives virtuously.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#39)
    by Johnny on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:08:39 PM EST
    Do as I say, not as I do. Sorry Bush, until you actually get asked questions like: "How many times and for what have you been arrested?" "How many times and what kind of drugs have you done?" And most importantly: "Under what grounds do you chalk up your past to 'youthful indiscretion' while maintaining a near zero tolerance today?" Bush needs to be hardballed, and he needs to tell the truth. Most people are not gonna care if he toked in the 60's, who didn't? But I think a lot of people are going to care if he continues his BS...

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:10:25 PM EST
    kdog Fair enough. My example probably wasn't the greatest, but my main point is that for most of us there things we willingly did in the past and which we now disapprove of. If that makes us hypocrits, so be it.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:16:50 PM EST
    ...makes you look like a frothing moron.
    from experience no doubt.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:37:13 PM EST
    I'm surprised that Bush is not a product of Catholic School, as we were so well trained for the real world. In Catholic school, you weren't punished for wrongdoing. It was accepted that no one but the Holy Trinity could obey all the rules set forth for us. You were, however, punished for being caught. Therefore, I, who was unapologetic for my indiscretions and not very sneaky by nature, suffered the consequences of my actions constantly, while my (although I love her) sneaky, lying, teachers pet sister got away with everything: (famous quote from my dad after sister has wild beer bash in cellar while parents are away - "Gee - this rug smells mouldy"). We would also have episodes in school where, to catch offenders when the crime is discovered, students were ordered to come forward if they were guilty. Those who came forward were punished in front of everyone to teach a lesson. Those who kept their mouth shut got off scott free. This fu**ing truth thing has been doggin me ever since... So, what I learned from Catholic School was how to be a good citizen and president. Truth, bad. Lies, good (as long as you're good enough to not get caught). Interesting take on American History: George Washington Senior: "Son, did you cut down that Cherry Tree?" George Washington Jr. "I cannot tell a lie - I did, Dad" Clinton "I tried to, but aren't good enough at chopping to actually get the job done" Bush "If I did, I wouldn't admit it. What would my constituents the Cherry Lobby think - I'd lose all those donations". Country headed in the right direction? I'll let you know after I've finished this spliff (BTW, I do inhale).

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:47:01 PM EST
    Hardleft Sorry, didn't mean to hurt your feelings. On second thought, please keep using the bold, any credibility your opinion suffers is more than compensated by the style, flair and, er, boldness it brings to your writing. Mfox Your attitude has been tainted by human corruption. We have no control over others, only ourselves. Stop being a cry-baby.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:52:12 PM EST
    A college buddy of Clinton's backed him up on the fact that he didn't inhale pot... he baked with it.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#45)
    by roy on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:30:47 PM EST
    I wonder if the half-hearted media coverage has more to do with the source than with the contents. Maybe the major new companies realize the president needs a certain amount of privacy to do his job, and they don't want to encourage people to spy on him and leak the results.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:50:24 PM EST
    Mfox taught me to diagram today! 1. She begins with a little sarcastic teaser: I'm surprised that Bush is not a product of Catholic School, as we were so well trained for the real world. 2. Next, a tiny lie, or perhaps a little oversimplification. Lets agree to call it "artistic liscense" In Catholic school, you weren't punished for wrongdoing ... You were, however, punished for being caught. 3. Self Revealed Truth #1. Notice the predictiblity of being unapologetic and suffering the consequences. Therefore, I, who was unapologetic for my indiscretions and not very sneaky by nature, suffered the consequences of my actions constantly 4. Her obvious contempt for her sister is palpable despite the disclaimer in parenthesis while my (although I love her) sneaky, lying, teachers pet sister got away with everything: 5. Self Revealed Truth #2. An unnecessary anecdote demonstrating her sister's wily ways (famous quote from my dad after sister has wild beer bash in cellar while parents are away - "Gee - this rug smells mouldy"). 6. Self Revealed Truth #3. Mfox's contempt for the truth is illustrated by the fact that she could not resist dropping the F-bomb This fu**ing truth thing has been doggin me ever since... 7. Self Revealed Truth #4. Mfox reveals her twisted moral code, a product of her yearning to be like those devious, lying kids who were never caught. So, what I learned from Catholic School was ... Truth, bad. Lies, good. 8. Next, an intentional misrepresentation of Bush, whose stated concerns were for "little kids", not his consituancy What would my constituents the Cherry Lobby think - I'd lose all those donations 9. Self Revealed Truth #5. Underscoring her contempt for laws she deems inapproriate, and her unrepentant ways (See #3, Self Revealed Truth #1) I'll let you know after I've finished this spliff (BTW, I do inhale). So what have we learned here? 1. Mfox likes talking about herself. 2. Mfox blames her immoral value system on the Catholic Church. 3. Mfox's posts are way too f*cking long winded to diagram!

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 05:20:18 PM EST
    ?imitation, the sincerest form of _____?

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 05:23:36 PM EST
    except when its NOT! lol

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 05:26:49 PM EST
    et al - The "difference" is simply this. 1992. 2005. Thirteen years is about one half of a generation.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:09:42 PM EST
    40 years is commonly accepted as a generation, biblically too.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:13:12 PM EST
    Sarc...To clarify, because I think we might agree on this. President "X" endorses the incarceration of drug users, when he himself used to use drugs. Also, he publicly denies having used drugs. He would be a hypocrite. President "Y used to have a drug problem (or simply experimented) and publicly acknowledges it, he then advocates for drug law reform with an increased focus on education and treatment. He would not be a hypocrite at all, he would have learned a life lesson.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#53)
    by wishful on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:24:20 PM EST
    kdog, you are being generous. It is actually quite a bit worse. Pres X has all of the attributes you described. Then he has the additional attributes of President Y, but limits his newfound drug law reform advocacy, no, actual enforcement, to apply only to people like his neice and others of his station. All the rest can go to he..I mean, prison. I think that makes president X a super double extra hypocrite.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#54)
    by roy on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:25:46 PM EST
    President "X" endorses the incarceration of drug users, when he himself used to use drugs. Also, he publicly denies having used drugs. He would be a hypocrite.
    When did Bush deny smoking pot? I thought he just dodged the questions.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:28:57 PM EST
    mfox...love the washington/clinton/bush anolgy...spot on. Catholic school kid too, eh. You're a better person than me, I found it much more convenient to pull the wool over their eyes. It's too bad our leaders act like deviant high schoolers these days. Then again, maybe politicians always have.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:43:18 PM EST
    I didn't say Bush was X. Lie, dodge...can we agree on less than honest? wishful..generous indeed...just trying to find some common ground. Let's face it, both these rotten parties have a miserable track record when it comes to drug policy. The media is no help either, though I did happen to catch a clip of an elderly person smoking a pinner on CNN this morning. Something about treating Alzheimers. The Ny Post made some snark remark about dope smoking grannies though. I guess Murdoch is the new Hearst.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:52:49 PM EST
    Dearest No Name - A new generation is born about every 25 years. The point, of course, is that what is acceptable today, such as the public discussion of BJ's, was not in 1992. Things change.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 09:04:25 PM EST
    It is such an obvious bias, it hardly requires comment. I knew the second the story was released that "no one" would care. By "no one" I mean the 20,000 unaccountable Corporate media professionals that dominate the global conversation and tell 300 million Americans what is acceptable to believe. Bush & Co. will continue to talk about "role models" while demonizing marijuana users. Not that I think it should be legal, but it is his fellow ideologues who wish to imprison and permanently make a meaningful career impossible for anyone found with a roach in his/her ashtray. Seems to me that anyone who believes Conservative zero sum thinking should believe that he should recuse himself for being a bad role model.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 01:03:04 AM EST
    Bush's heavy cocaine (and amphetamine?) use, along with his heavy drinking, is a lot of the reason why he is so incoherent half the time (the other part of that reason is that he is a habitual liar). His marijuana use is not the issue. Those two hard drugs ARE. Frying his brain was not a qualification for running the country, coups or no coups. Neither is Schwartz.' heavy drug use, his cocaine and amphetamine (and steroid!) use is a disqualification for gov't service, coups or no coups.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 07:50:12 AM EST
    You're right, Bush never denied smoking pot or doing coke, either.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#61)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 08:09:02 AM EST
    TA- ďNot that I think it should be legalĒ Frankly Iím a bit taken back. Of course I understand that you think the state should have this kind of arbitrary power to revoke liberty at will; Iím just not accustomed to hear this particular endorsement from the left.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#62)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 08:17:05 AM EST
    All- Before you all pass judgment on President Bush for his seeming hypocrisy, perhaps we should know if he is square with his younger self-suffering the same punishments had he been caught. However, as I see it irrelevant; most certainly drug prohibition isnít justified by any of the enumerated powers; the left has been tossed by their own power hungry federal petard. (TS excluded)

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 09:16:23 AM EST
    PW, If he is to be known as an honest person and not a hypocrite, he would have turned himself in to face his due, you know, personal responsibility and all. If that is asking to much (honesty), he can now make it his business to advocate that others do not face punishment that he himself decided not to avail himself of for the self-same offenses.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#64)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 09:46:40 AM EST
    ďhe would have turned himself in to face his due, you know, personal responsibility and all.Ē I think it is clear that he believes that he has changed. And I agree; he certainly isnít using drugs now. Perhaps even now he may wish he would have been caught and, in his mind, rehabilitated. When younger I believed and acted very different than I do now, and am, in many cases, ashamed of my past behavior. President Bush is made a hypocrite over many counts, i.e. fiscal conservatism. Itís not clear he has been inconsistent here. Iíll point out once again that the President believes the authority to punish drug users comes from the same foundation that proponents of rehabilitation believe the authority to mandate their pet solution stems. They are both wrong and, in my mind, just as evil.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 10:45:43 AM EST
    "Posted by pigwiggle: "I think it is clear that he believes that he has changed. And I agree; he certainly isnít using drugs now." Really! And you know this...how? When he was in Peru, he came out for the photo op WITH HIS ZIPPER DOWN, laughing and giggling like his Peruvian rightwing friends had given him the BEST cocaine they have available. Otherwise, why was his zipper down? Is it possible that he has no staff? No, he has a staff. Is it possible they don't approve his appearance before he appears? Not if he is toasted and won't let them.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 11:27:02 AM EST
    kdog - HYPOCRITE n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold AFAIK, Bush believes that drug use should be illegal. And that it should be punishable. And he professes the same. There is no hypocrisy there. Past beliefs, actions, or whatever, do not make one a hypocrite today. I think we're arguing semantics here.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 11:35:32 AM EST
    Touche, Hound (er, Jim?) I was waiting for you. My Cherry Lobby analogy wasn't right on, I admit it. Also, I do seem to be a bit long-winded, always surprising to me. I admire kdog, who seems to be able to say in two sentences what it takes me ten paragraphs to write. However, my basic point was that, according to better political minds, (and a lot of Jesuits), the rule of survival is to not admit anything - someone will always believe you. Also that you get punished for getting caught (a la Clinton) not for wrongdoing. My opinions are formed by my experiences. Just thought I'd share one with you. I would rather have a pot smoker than a liar as president any day. BTW, I am flattered, Jim. Feel free to save your format to apply to my future posts, 'cause I'm savin' mine. W...(*sniff*).. still the President!

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#68)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 03:15:22 PM EST
    Of course I understand that you think the state should have this kind of arbitrary power to revoke liberty at will Of course I understand that you think that those with the most wealth should have this kind of arbitrary power to revoke liberty at will... Perhaps in a nation where moderation is not only absent, but actively discouraged, there is a need for government to add it to the social contract. I don't believe legalizing illegal drugs will quell use. The people I've known who use drugs would most assuredly use even more if it were more easily accessible. More drug use would make their lives harder, not easier. Which leads to more hopelessness, and more drug use. We should reduce the hopelessness that leads to self medication rather than have blind faith in the supposed "Free Market" to fix everything for us. The only ones who have the credibility to argue the comparison between alcohol and marijuana to me are those who smoke marijuana for "the taste" of it (virtually nobody). Some alcoholic beverages have value as a beverage. Having said that, perhaps we don't need our teenagers "shotgunning" Everclear and PGA. Perhaps society would be better off without it. Especially given all of the tripwires that Corporate America has placed in young people's way to ensure that the entitled/wealthy get careers where work is minimal and pay is plentiful while the rest toil away for scraps. Having said that, alcohol abuse is also caused by hopelessness. Those without hope are most susceptible to, say, beer advertising with half-naked women, expensive cars, and expensive lifestyles. Work to reduce hopelessness, reduce Alcohol and Drug Abuse. You think Joe Camel marketing carcinogens to teens was offensive. Wait until Corporations get to market Marijuana.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 03:33:04 PM EST
    Having said all of that, moderation is called for in sentencing. Those deemed criminal should have the ability to re-enter society ***and retain hope for a comfortable life/retirement*** once a reasonable debt has been repaid / rehabilitation.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#70)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 04:15:19 PM EST
    You think Joe Camel marketing carcinogens to teens was offensive. Wait until Corporations get to market Marijuana. I agree. That kind of advertising is extremely harmful.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#71)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 04:40:14 PM EST
    et al, but especially PIL - Some links, please on his supposed coke use. Betcha can't do it. mfix - You are as screwed up as usual. "Hound" isn't me. I comment only under my own moniker. Besides, I would have said: So what's your point? You went to a catholic school? Aint my fault.

    Re: The Pres and the Press (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 01:05:42 AM EST
    It's not about marijuana. Bush snorted a TON of cocaine (and probably a lot of amphetamines). And in Peru this last year, he came out for a diplomatic photo-shoot with his zipper down, his underwear protruding from his pants, and he was walking funny with his knees apart, giggling like a debutante. In Peru. This cokehead goes to Peru and then he thinks it's funny to pull his zipper down in front of the representatives of our ally Koizumi and a lot of other nations of importance, like Russia. If he wasn't coked up, then he is JUST an egomaniac who brings disrespect on the nation by lowering himself to underwear jokes. Or he was tits to the wind and thought it was genius. Which is it?