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Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 10:18:05 AM EST
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Chat time. You pick the topics. I'll be back sometime tonight. Thanks to America Blog for providing the audio of our blogger telephone conference call with Howard Dean yesterday.

< Congress' Reaction to Booker and FanFan | Round the Bloggerhood >

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    Open Thread | 57 comments (57 topical)
    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:13:19 AM EST
    I got one.... How about thoughts on a very 'ungrateful' Indonesian government requesting that Americans not be seen giving out aid???

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:22:29 AM EST
    I have a question regarding today's decisions from the U.S. Supreme Court in terms of how a federal inmate who is no longer on his direct appeal, and in light of the stringent AEDPA time and limited filing restrictions for Habeas relief, may receive relief from his clearly unconstitutional sentence. I have numerous friends in the federal prison system serving extreme sentences where these men went to trial and the government instructed the jury that they did not need to be concerned of drug type and/or quantity but merely make a finding beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether or not the defendant possessed a "measurable quantity of a controlled substance" with the intent to distribute. With such a low threshold of a burden of proof these men were convicted of crimes that could have carried a range of anywhere from less than a year to LIFE in prison - depending on the quantity and type of drugs they were ultimately held responsible for by the court under a preponderance standard. These cases are truly travesties of justice. Certainly these men deserved to go to prison - but not for the 20-30 year sentences they are serving. I know a lot about the law - but I do not know how to get these men back into court to receive relief under these new cases, which clearly demonstrate that their sentences are unconstitutional. If anyone can help me get them relief or at least point me in the right direction PLEASE advise. Feel free to call me at 316-265-2830. Thank you very much... Terry Brown

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:22:49 AM EST
    I had not seen this. I did read that they wanted foreign troops out in 3 months when they thought the major portion of the relief effort would be done. One most also consider that there's a war going on in the Aceh province with armed guerrilas there. So its a political sensitive area and time. So its always good to look at the situation from all angles instead of trying to find a justification for belittling a foreign country. But many people can only see things from the US's perspective and are anxious to stir up a crisis or situation where one doesn't really exist.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:23:40 AM EST
    The decisions to which I refer is US v Booker and US v Fanfan.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Patrick on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:41:10 AM EST
    The guerrilas in the Aceh has made public statements that they would support aid workers in any way possible. I think I read somewhere about a Dr that was allegedly kidnapped by the guerrilas, held for days and shot, and that was the reason the Gov't was wanting aid workers out. Of course one source was quoting the Dr as saying he had only been held for an hour and had not been shot. Hard to know what to believe and what is the official policy over there.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:46:41 AM EST
    soccerdad.. I heard they wanted the USS Abe Lincoln (carrier) out of their waters....will not allow Marines to carry weapons.... & will not allow people to see Americans actually handing out aid. (in other words...put your money on the sidewalk... go away... & I'll get it later when nobody is watching) Not sure how much of this is actually true...but if any of it is, I say, take the aid to people that will appreciate it & not put so many restrictions on who & how it's given. I'm assuming it has a lot to do with the Muslim (anti-american) population?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:54:22 AM EST
    In our efforts to move towards a state of more civil discourse in this country, I thought a group started by a bunch of college kids from Virginia has the right idea. They call it OrangeBand. They hand out orange strips of fabric that can be taken and personlized to represent an issue important to whomever decides to wear one. Then, when the band is displayed on a bag or somewhere else it can be used as a conversation starter. Together with educational forums, they are trying to bring us back into normal, constructive dialogue on a daily basis. Good ideas are always simple.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:56:16 AM EST
    Well B.B. why don't you spend some time trying to determine how much of your post is true before you get your panties in a wad.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:56:52 AM EST
    Here's my burning question of the week: Why do we care so much more about Tsunami victims than hundreds of thousands of people killed in other natural (china earthquake) and man-made disasters? Ted Koppel did an excellent piece on this two nights ago which I was so gratified to see, but I'm interested in people's thoughts on this (not to belittle the Tsunami survivors' struggles). It's just that so many other people have these same problems (Thinking sadly of Sudan).

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:58:34 AM EST
    B.B, how stupid are you? Aceh is fighting for independence from Indonesia that's why INDONESIA NOT ACEH don't want Americans there.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:01:33 PM EST
    Read some more before you comment on things you don´t have a clue about..

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:07:42 PM EST
    A Brief History of Aceh

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by desertswine on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:25:43 PM EST
    Together with educational forums, they are trying to bring us back into normal, constructive dialogue on a daily basis.
    Huh?? What's that? A rare commodity indeed.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:34:34 PM EST
    Dear no name.... Well B.B. why don't you spend some time trying to determine how much of your post is true before you get your panties in a wad. If you read my first post, you'd see I'm asking for opinions on this & was stating what I heard... BTW...I just checked & my panties are fine... calm down. Dear IM.... How stupid are you? I never mentioned ACEH. I was asking about Indonesia. Read the first post here. You can read can't you? Read some more before you comment on things you don´t have a clue about.. Yes... that goes double for you...try 'reading' something first BEFORE you comment. I was asking for opinions & never stated what I heard was fact. Try some dialog and don't be so angry over nothing.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:36:35 PM EST
    mfox.... Good question..... I think the UN should answer that...Isn't that suppose to be their mission?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:54:48 PM EST
    Why do we care so much more about Tsunami victims than hundreds of thousands of people killed in other natural (china earthquake) and man-made disasters? mfox Did Mr. Koppel mention the media's ability to fixate on particular stories to the exclusion of others, thus keeping the story in the mindset of the masses? NPR had a good story on a DNA sweep in Truro, Massachusetts. Would you submit to a swab?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    B.B., Look, I'm sorry,bad day.. temper got the better of me. But you still don´t got a clue about what you're talking about The tsunami hit Aceh, it's obvious why they don't wouldn't want america to stay too long in a breakout province striving for independence..they want to keep the US out of this

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Kitt on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:07:29 PM EST
    Unlike B.B., this got me panties in a wad...."Puerto Rican singer Ricky Martin landed on Thailand's Phuket island on Thursday with two film crews and an entourage filling four vans to find out what his foundation could do to help." Here, let's just get in the way, shall we. They won't mind; we're important. Try calling next time.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:13:56 PM EST
    he is the next geraldo. why do yu guys hate twinkie hispanics. now when miguel estrada becomes one of the supremes you will be sorry.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:16:40 PM EST
    since there is no topic, i can comment at will; kitt, when you said 'got me panties in a wad' you became a pirate to me forevermore. i know it was a typo, and i hope you don't mind. i haven't laughed that hard in a long time :) thanks, back to the serious conversation...

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:18:31 PM EST
    IM.... Apology accepted... I'm trying to get info on this which is why I brought the subject up in the first place. I never claimed to know the history of the area or what was going on.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:19:44 PM EST
    Kitt.... LOL

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:34:31 PM EST
    blu..no way I submit to a DNA swabbing, and in my opinion things are getting out of hand in regards to our privacy, specifically bodily fluids and excretions. Random dna swabs on the street, I'd hoped we would never see the day. Pardon the vulgarity, but the only way the state gets my DNA is to blow me.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:38:19 PM EST
    I noticed that Margaret Thatcher’s son Mark is going on trial in South Africa for backing a failed coup in Equatorial Guinea. His group was trying to install a new government in EG so they could control its oil reserves. Does that sound familiar, Mr Bush?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:38:21 PM EST
    kdog... LOL... you just topped kitt....

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:41:06 PM EST
    Blu, Re: your comment below
    Did Mr. Koppel mention the media's ability to fixate on particular stories to the exclusion of others, thus keeping the story in the mindset of the masses?
    He did, in fact, calling it a media lottery for who gets aid. Of course the media gives us what we, the buyers of their advertised products demand. A big wave is easier and more sensational than diptheria, aids, slavery and rape. What's your point? Re: your second comment,
    NPR had a good story on a DNA sweep in Truro, Massachusetts. Would you submit to a swab?
    To answer your question - not unless they put me in jail and assigned Charles Grainer to soften me up (although I do think my butt is way photogenic and I did do some cheerleading). But again, what's your point? Were you trying to tie this statement to your first point? If so, I lost you.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:48:10 PM EST
    mfox, your butt wouldn’t be photogenic after the United States military got done with it. It would be gaping bloody.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:50:30 PM EST
    Apparently, from the Graner threads on TL, one person's gaping bloody butt is another persons (and I use the term "person" loosly) Holiday Postcard.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:56:55 PM EST
    ...and one Military Policeman’s holiday postcard is another one’s hors d’oeuvre.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:13:47 PM EST
    "I'm assuming it has a lot to do with the Muslim (anti-american) population?" This anti-americanism has been CREATED by Bush and his fellows over the last 50 years, starting with the CIA coup against Mossadegh, democratically-elected ruler of Iran, and going on through the CIA coup against the president of Iraq, and installation of Saddam Hussein, followed by the arming of Hussein with chemical and biological weapons by Reagan/Bush, and the rest you probably remember. On 911, the footage supposedly showing Palestinians/Iraqis/Arabs "celebrating" the destruction was debunked long ago as file footage of a Jordanian wedding. The "anti-american slogans" being shouted on that tape, shown to all of America over and over and over, is "Allahu Akbar" (God is great). When you figure out that you're being played, come back for the advanced course in Bushliar treason. Or go the amoral route, and join the wingers, because the truth is too painful for someone WITH conscience, and the sociopathy is SO much fun instead. After all, soon you will be able to march with other morally empty racists...provided you don't LOOK at the Fuhrer, of course. --

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:20:51 PM EST
    We Are All Torturers Now A bit dated but worth a read if you missed this in the Times.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:40:24 PM EST
    Paul in LA... Yes... we all know about all of the indiscretions of this great country's illustrious past. Both Dems & Repubs did some very stupid things for many years ....(long before either Bush showed up on the scene)...so ok.. now what? Do we sit back & say ok... we deserve it.. go ahead & kill as many of us as pleases you? What's your solution?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:51:27 PM EST
    B.B., Are you saying that democracy and human rights are hindering our ability to fight those who oppose democracy and human rights???

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 03:26:23 PM EST
    The solution is to STOP THE USPNAC TERRORISM!! And that means stopping Bush and his cronies, by any and all nonviolent means available. As for 'Dems and $Rs,' yeah, Dems have participated in some of these antidemocratic actions, but keep the telescope turned the right way. We, as a party, ABHOR such actions by our gov't, and always will, regardless of what politicians say. USPNAC, on the other hand, has a vested, corrupt, direct interest in dismantling the ME, mostly for the oil revenue, but also to shield Israel's rightwing gov't. Shielding rightwing gov't is WHY there were death squads in Central America -- it was not to stop insurgents. The rightwing deathsquads in Colombia are responsible for the majority (by far) of terror in that country, and the same is true of Indonesia, with US-backed (mostly $R, but Carter comes in for some of that shame) deathsquads operating there, in E. Timor (part of Aceh) especially. So, to quote Chomsky, "the best way to stop terrorism is to stop doing it." Most of the 100,000+ innocent people Bush has killed were MODERATES who would happily turn terrorist information over given the chance. After all, few fathers want to have bombs from whatever source going off near their children, or anyone's children. As for 'we deserve it,' nothing of the kind. NO ONE deserves it. And no one deserves to have Bush using the US military to fight HIS business partners, and his business partner's wars for profit. Bush took all of August 01 off, in one of the longest vacations in POTUS history. He did NOTHING to alert the airlines to the imminent threat. This after threatening the Taliban with an October invasion, using the phrase: "a carpet of bombs, or a carpet of gold, your choice." While Kissinger and his assistant Bremer giggled. --

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Kitt on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 03:31:54 PM EST
    Ah, GEEZ! Did I need this mental picture?! "Pardon the vulgarity, but the only way the state gets my DNA is to blow me." Hang on to that one; it might be comment of the year.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 03:57:17 PM EST
    mfox, You wrote, "Of course the media gives us what we, the buyers of their advertised products demand." So, you're saying we (the buyers) demand certain disaster stories over others. You're saying we (the buyers) are in control of what the media dares to witness. I never knew I had so much power. As far as the DNA thing goes, it was merely an attempt to throw out another topic.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 04:16:38 PM EST
    attempts to blame it on 'society' or 'the media' are non-starters. unfortunately, society and the media are all made up of individuals. and if it didn't sell, it wouldn't get sold. trust me - there are gaggles of people out there dying to lap up the bloodiest and most sensationalized stories out there. really, i think it's arbitrary on the part of the news people. what story is ready first? which story is the bloodiest/most tearjerking/involves the most celebrities.......

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:22:00 PM EST
    Paul In LA writes - "On 911, the footage supposedly showing Palestinians/Iraqis/Arabs "celebrating" the destruction was debunked long ago as file footage of a Jordanian wedding. The "anti-american slogans" being shouted on that tape, shown to all of America over and over and over, is "Allahu Akbar" (God is great)." OK, let's the "debunking" information. GregZ - Mark Danner and you can speak for yourselves.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:27:50 PM EST
    "...E. Timor (part of Aceh)..." I hope you're not a geography teacher, Paul. 'So, to quote Chomsky, "the best way to stop terrorism is to stop doing it." ' Time to book Noam a trip to OBL's cave where he can deliver this notion in person.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:33:54 PM EST
    Time to book Noam a trip to OBL's cave where he can deliver this notion in person. Wasn't your favorite Cowboy Action Hero going to "smoke him out" of that cave about 3 years ago?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:05:34 PM EST
    The reason that the tsunami coverage is so big is that it’s the biggest natural disaster (by loss of life) in thirty years. There’s nothing to compare it to. Only the Chinese earthquake in the early 70s killed more, and it was under-reported at the time in the US, I remember Trudeau’s Doonesbury had a poignant cartoon about it, but that’s because we had less media saturation at the time. If it happened today, they’d be all over it.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:17:55 PM EST
    B.B., I just googled CIA Indonesia and picked this out. It was just a snippet of what we have been up to in Indonesia for decades. Indonesia's actions should not be held only in the context of the current WOT. Many today cannot look back to the roots of the post WWII US foreign policy and see why there is so much resentment worldwide. IMHO we should offer what help they will accept and hope that our action in this case will also be noticed. Just help the people. Ignore their posturing.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:29:03 PM EST
    Britain did their "social security" reform under Thatcher. It was very similar to what Bush wants to do now. So how did it go? see here Well they are going to do another reform. It looks like they are going to adopt a system similar to the one we have now.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 02:23:46 AM EST
    "So, to quote Chomsky, "the best way to stop terrorism is to stop doing it." ' Time to book Noam a trip to OBL's cave where he can deliver this notion in person." Yeah, too bad the US military under the C-in-C George Bush FAILED, UTTERLY to deliver ANY notion to OBL in his cave, except for the message that when cornered, his BROTHER'S BUSINESS PARTNER would let him go. Gee Thanks, George!! There are 150 US GIs in Afghanistan who would also like to thank him, but unfortunately they are DEAD. --

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 06:36:10 AM EST
    Is it hard to understand why Indonesions of all political persuasion might agree that US troops need to leave the country quickly? Maybe they have seen all the good work the US troops have been able to deliver in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fallujah, Aceh? Both hit pretty hard.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 07:55:18 AM EST
    mfox... Are you saying that democracy and human rights are hindering our ability to fight those who oppose democracy and human rights??? Well I didn't say that...but... yes, they certainly can. There comes a time when we must make a decision on what's more important at the time.... democracy & human rights won't mean too much to me here in Chicago if a nuke goes off because, heavin forbid, we tucked a prisoner in & kissed him goodnight instead of extracting info from him that might have prevented it.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:07:31 AM EST
    Paul in LA.... Well..I'm not sure what you're smoking there in La La land....but I'd like some.... The solution is to STOP THE USPNAC TERRORISM!! If you honestly think that all will be well if we pulled out today... you're sadly mistaken. This might come as a news flash to you, but they hated us long before GW arrived on the scene and many Dems are just as responsible for this. I know it's very 'hip' to blame him for ALL the world's ills, but you, once again are mistaken. We, as a party, ABHOR such actions by our gov't, and always will, regardless of what politicians say. Well,.... nice lip service but fact of the matter is, the Dem leaders are responsible for just as many f-ups! Most of the 100,000+ innocent people Bush has killed were MODERATES who would happily turn terrorist information over given the chance You apparently have info that nobody else has... I suggest you get in touch with the FBI ASAP! LOL If they would have cooperated they'd still be alive & this would be over! He did NOTHING to alert the airlines to the imminent threat. Yeah.... and he didn't warn me about the pothole I hit this AM....I'm really pissed about that too

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:09:47 AM EST
    Che... Thanks for the link. I agree with the following: IMHO we should offer what help they will accept and hope that our action in this case will also be noticed. Just help the people. Ignore their posturing. It's about all we can do (besides telling them to shove it that is.)

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:13:44 AM EST
    C.A. Maybe they have seen all the good work the US troops have been able to deliver in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah...Unfortunately, if they watch any of the liberal news media, they will NEVER see anthing good. might agree that US troops need to leave the country quickly? OK...and we should take our aid with us too!

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:14:07 AM EST
    man, this is depressing. if it's not afghanistan, it's iraq. if it's not iraq, it's the sudan. if it's not the sudan, it's equatorial guinea (talk about financing a monster). and on and on... do enough research and every elected official you can punch into google has some nefarious dealings in their past. so it's not just bush & co. although they have shown a particular flair for capitalizing on the suffering of others, many politicians before them were just as dirty. democrat, republican... how can any of us claim any moral high ground based on the actions of our depraved and indifferent political leaders? these power mad monsters - who must undergo the surgical removal of their conscience before taking office - are the only people we ever elect. how do you know who the good guys are? 'cause polticial affiliation isn't cutting it for me these days.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:44:27 AM EST
    To find the good guys kelite, you have to look outside the system of politics. Politics is alot of saying one thing, and doing quite another, basically being all talk and back to the business of being self-serving as usual. The "good guys" want nothing to do with politics.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:39:27 AM EST
    Why isn't the left blogosphere jumping all over Rummy's prevarication regarding special forces death squads in Iraq?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:07:27 AM EST
    The "good guys" want nothing to do with politics. right. exactly. so there are none, and we might as well put our head between our knees and kiss our butts good bye. if there are no good guys, where does the hope come from? why even argue? i am tempted sometimes to just lie down and say, 'yes. our democratic politicians are spineless scumbags. and our republican politicians are fanatical scumbags. as a matter of fact, poltician comes from the greek root word meaning pond scum. so there you go. i quit.' sorry, too much reading of blogs lately. maybe i'll take a break.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 03:32:54 PM EST
    "He did NOTHING to alert the airlines to the imminent threat. Yeah.... and he didn't warn me about the pothole I hit this AM....I'm really pissed about that too" You don't even make any sense. I guess your boozing has fried off too many braincells. Did you pothole kill 3,000 people? Did your pothole steal an election so you could fail all of America in a disastrous vacation, and a followup disastrous invasion that came up EMPTY? A pothole isn't so hard to fill. The shoes of the POTUS are quite a bit harder. Can't be done on vacation, or if some billionaire has his arm so far up your ass he is wiggling your fingers. --

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:40:03 AM EST
    Paul In LA - You know, you are as full of it as a Christmas Turkey. There were all kinds of alerts going out. Paul G - It was well covered here. Problem is, these aren't death squads, just local forces trained for special forces. BTW - BS only goes so far, then the truth runs it off. kelite - If you want, read "The Constant Gardner," by John le Carre. It'll make you cry with sadness and frustration. Paul In LA - BTW I would still like to see the source for your claim that the video's of various arab groups celebrating 9/11 are fake. You know, a link. Otherwise I'm gonna have to conclude you are telling a fib. A great big fib.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:46:15 AM EST
    They aren't death squads, just local special forces trained to assassinate Sunnis. PPJ you are a clown.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 08:08:43 AM EST
    It appears that some footage of Arabs celebrating were faked. There were celebrations that were denouced by moderaate Muslims. The story of celrbrating Arabs received much more attention than that of a few celebrating Israelis LINK Frankly given the history of US involvement in the ME its surprising to me that there were not more celebrations. Of course the clebration of 9/11 by a relatively few Arabs leads the neocons to call for a war against 1 billion Muslims.

    Open Thread | 57 comments (57 topical)