Tag: Michigan '08
Sen. Barack Obama has sent a letter to the DNC asking that the Florida and Michigan delegations be seated in full. As much as we knew this would happen, it still strikes a sore spot.
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The best article I've read on the Saturday debacle of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting in which it decided to seat Michigan and Florida delegates with 1/2 vote each and award delegates who voted for Hillary to Barack Obama, is Dana Milbank's in the Washington Post.
It's a great read, you will feel like you were in the room witnessing the dissension, the childishness and the pettiness of all involved, from the committee members to Rep. Robert Wexler, and the resentment it caused among the spectators, which by now has spread across the party.
It also brings home the utter political stupidity of the committee's final ruling. I'll put a few quotes below, but there are so many more just go read the whole thing. [More...]
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I love Markos, he's a very good friend, but this has to be the funniest version of the popular vote total.
By the way, in the real popular vote, including Florida which the DNC now accepts, and excluding Michigan, which the DNC now rejects, and including the caucus states (which Clinton and her camp want to disenfranchise), the numbers currently are Obama +183,067.
So, the DNC wants to count delegates from Michigan, including awarding 4 delegates to Obama that Hillary won, but give her none of the 328,309 votes she won in the state certified election?
Telling 328,309 voters from Michigan who voted for Hillary their vote doesn't count because another candidate voluntarily removed himself from the ballot has to be one of the dumbest moves ever.
From the Real Clear Politics popular vote total link that Markos cites :
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They are an hour and a half behind schedule. We smell a back room deal.
This is Big Tent Democrat's and my continuation of live-blogging the afternoon non-session of the Democratic Rules & Bylaw Committee meeting on seating Michigan and Florida.
The live-blog appears below the fold so it can be bigger. Comment in this thread as usual if you want others to see your comments. Only BTD and I can see those you submit through the live blog software.
here will open when they reconvene now closed.
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Big Tent Democrat and I will live-blog the afternoon session of debate over seating Michigan and Florida delegates here. Comments will open at 4:15 pm ET.
Back From Ohio will continue live-blogging from the meeting room here.
The blog is below the fold. You can comment as usual or send us comments through the live blog. If you want others to see your comments, comment below the normal way. Only BTD and I see those submitted on the live-blog.
Comments now closed.
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Bump and Update: Back From Ohio will continue live-blogging the afternoon session here.
A huge thanks to BackFromOhio, TalkLeft's credentialed blogger on site at the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting today.
BackFromOhio is an attorney well-versed in these kinds of hearings.
Please comment below as usual if you want to live blog along with BFO or post comments that all can see. If you use the commenter screen in the live-blogging software, only BFO will see the messages.
We'll start new threads when comments reach about 200. The live-blog is below the fold so that we can make it larger than the front page allows.
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There's a big storm in DC and the tv coverage blanks out occasionally. BackFromOhio is live-blogging for TalkLeft from the meeting room here.
I'm going to start with Hillary's representative arguing her case. On Obama, I was surprised he asked for 50% of the delegates when the news yesterday was he abandoned that in the spirit of compromise. Apparently not.Former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard is up for Hillary. I'll live blog below the fold:
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Big Tent Democrat and I will be live-blogging here.
Please comment below as usual if you want to live blog along with us or post comments. If you use the commenter screen in our live-blogging software, no one will see the messages but us.
We'll start new threads when comments reach about 200.
The live-blog is below the fold so that we could make it larger than the front page allows.
Comments now closed, new threads are up.
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Party officials and challengers will make presentations first Saturday, and the campaigns will then make their cases. Former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard and Arthenia Joyner, a Tampa, Fla., civil rights activist, will present Clinton's case, while Rep. Robert Wexler, D-Fla., and former Rep. David Bonior, D-Mich., will argue Obama's side. Levin is also expected to speak.
Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for the Florida party, said that while Democrats there want all delegates seated, Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., who will present the state's case, is expected to use a conciliatory tone. According to Bubriski, Nelson is likely to argue, "We want this to be over. Our goal is that this is the day to end it, to move on, to put this entire dark chapter behind us."
After hearing the arguments, the committee plans to break for a private lunch, followed by an afternoon of deliberations.
Legal arguments are not likely to hold sway tomorrow. Why? [More....]
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[W]hat is fair is that 73 pledged delegates be seated for Mrs. Clinton and 55 be free to vote for whomever they might wish (after all, they are 'Uncommitted'!)-- for Michigan constitutionally set its Presidential Primary date as 15 January 2008 under State law, held said election- again, under State law. The voters who wished to do so, thereby, voted on that date and the results, if the rules set for all jurisdictions under Democratic Party national rules be applied, would be 73 Clinton/55 Uncommitted... period!
....To my mind, the Michigan Democratic Party has done both their Party and their State a disservice by being so willing to advance a 69/59 split (that, and they are also ignoring the fact that, in the end, it is not really their "call" anyway...
On Florida: [More...]
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Update: FL State Senator Arthenia Joyner will argue for Hillary. Bill Nelson is arguing only for the Fla. Democratic Party. Katherine Seelye of the NY Times was mistaken.
Update: Florida Democratic Party Chair Karen Thurman sent out an email saying Bill Nelson will be arguing for the Florida Democratic Party. Is he arguing for both Hillary and the Florida Party? She says she expects the Committee will "restore at least half of our delegates." From the e-mail, which was forwarded to me:
The Party has not made any specific recommendations to the DNC since we submitted our delegate selection plan, but we have consistently noted that a record-breaking 1.75 million Florida Democrats voted in the state-run January 29th primary, which had all the candidates on the ballot.. [More...]
Tomorrow, the Rules & Bylaws Committee will hear an appeal written by Florida DNC Member Jon Ausman. I have asked our senior U.S. Senator, Bill Nelson, to present on behalf of Florida Democrats
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The Detroit Free Press reports that former Congressman and campaign manager for John Edwards, David Bonior and FL Rep. Robert Wexler will argue for Barack Obama at the Florida Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting Saturday.
Who is arguing for Hillary? The article doesn't say.
The hearing is televised and BTD and I will be live-blogging from our respective locations while TalkLeft commenter (and attorney) BackFromOhio will be TalkLeft's credentialed blogger at the meeting and live-blogging on scene.
Should be a big day, I hope you'll join us.
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Bump and Update: I just received permission to publish the materials. Here they are. By the way, TalkLeft will have a live-blogger credentialed at the meeting. S/he is BackFromOhio. So we will have two live-blogs going, BTD and I will live-blog together watching tv and BackFromOhio will live-blog from the meeting room.
I have just received the 38 page DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee Meeting Materials on Florida and Michigan. The DNC asks that we not publish them so I will honor their request. Here's what their e-mail says about them:
- This document contains copies of the MI and FL challenges, a staff analysis of each challenge, and the overall timeline.
- The documents are intentionally neutral. They do not make specific recommendations. The analysis seeks to provide a rules framework for each argument and the issues raised within each challenge.
- The analysis maintains that the RBC did have proper authority and jurisdiction in imposing the 100% sanction. The RBC had wide latidude in that decsion.
- According to the rules, the automatic sanctions was 50%, the RBC has within its authority to impose a sanction up to 100%.
We will go review them and update here with any observations. Here's what Big Tent Democrat wrote this morning on their conclusions. Comments are closed on his post, but you can comment here. [More...]
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Here's the gist of Lanny Davis' eminently fair proposal for seating Florida and Michigan delegates.
In Michigan, Clinton received 55 percent of the vote. According to Thegreenpapers.com, she thus should receive 73 pledged delegates based on that percentage.
What about the 50 remaining uncommitted delegates, and 7 collectively cast for Sen. Chris Dodd and Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, who were also on the ballot? Some of those 50 delegates might have been for Clinton as a second choice to candidates other than Obama, so it would be totally unfair to award all 50 delegates to Obama....Obama was not forced by party rules to remove his name — he chose to do so.
The Rules Committee has several options. The fairest would be to allocate those 57 pledged delegates, to Clinton and Obama by the same ratio of their standing to one another in the average of the most recent Michigan statewide polls prior to the Jan. 15 primary. [More...]
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I disagree with Big Tent Democrat on Obama's statement today on FL and MI. It's woefully inadequate and nothing he and the party haven't said before. It doesn't address the issue.
The issue is not seating the delegates at the convention. It's counting their votes and awarding delegates based on their votes BEFORE the nominee is chosen. It's about giving 2.3 million voters who took the time to go to the polls and who did nothing wrong have their votes count in deciding our party's nominee.
Obama is playing the same games he's always played on Michigan and Florida. He's not agreeing to let their votes count.
Saying they can be seated at the convention means they can cheer for the nominee and sit in on party platform and rules meetings. Big deal. If they can't have their votes count in determining the nominee, it's a shell game.
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