Tag: Florida '08
They are an hour and a half behind schedule. We smell a back room deal.
This is Big Tent Democrat's and my continuation of live-blogging the afternoon non-session of the Democratic Rules & Bylaw Committee meeting on seating Michigan and Florida.
The live-blog appears below the fold so it can be bigger. Comment in this thread as usual if you want others to see your comments. Only BTD and I can see those you submit through the live blog software.
here will open when they reconvene now closed.
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Big Tent Democrat and I will live-blog the afternoon session of debate over seating Michigan and Florida delegates here. Comments will open at 4:15 pm ET.
Back From Ohio will continue live-blogging from the meeting room here.
The blog is below the fold. You can comment as usual or send us comments through the live blog. If you want others to see your comments, comment below the normal way. Only BTD and I see those submitted on the live-blog.
Comments now closed.
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Bump and Update: Back From Ohio will continue live-blogging the afternoon session here.
A huge thanks to BackFromOhio, TalkLeft's credentialed blogger on site at the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting today.
BackFromOhio is an attorney well-versed in these kinds of hearings.
Please comment below as usual if you want to live blog along with BFO or post comments that all can see. If you use the commenter screen in the live-blogging software, only BFO will see the messages.
We'll start new threads when comments reach about 200. The live-blog is below the fold so that we can make it larger than the front page allows.
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Big Tent Democrat and I will be live-blogging here.
Please comment below as usual if you want to live blog along with us or post comments. If you use the commenter screen in our live-blogging software, no one will see the messages but us.
We'll start new threads when comments reach about 200.
The live-blog is below the fold so that we could make it larger than the front page allows.
Comments now closed, new threads are up.
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Party officials and challengers will make presentations first Saturday, and the campaigns will then make their cases. Former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard and Arthenia Joyner, a Tampa, Fla., civil rights activist, will present Clinton's case, while Rep. Robert Wexler, D-Fla., and former Rep. David Bonior, D-Mich., will argue Obama's side. Levin is also expected to speak.
Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for the Florida party, said that while Democrats there want all delegates seated, Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., who will present the state's case, is expected to use a conciliatory tone. According to Bubriski, Nelson is likely to argue, "We want this to be over. Our goal is that this is the day to end it, to move on, to put this entire dark chapter behind us."
After hearing the arguments, the committee plans to break for a private lunch, followed by an afternoon of deliberations.
Legal arguments are not likely to hold sway tomorrow. Why? [More....]
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[W]hat is fair is that 73 pledged delegates be seated for Mrs. Clinton and 55 be free to vote for whomever they might wish (after all, they are 'Uncommitted'!)-- for Michigan constitutionally set its Presidential Primary date as 15 January 2008 under State law, held said election- again, under State law. The voters who wished to do so, thereby, voted on that date and the results, if the rules set for all jurisdictions under Democratic Party national rules be applied, would be 73 Clinton/55 Uncommitted... period!
....To my mind, the Michigan Democratic Party has done both their Party and their State a disservice by being so willing to advance a 69/59 split (that, and they are also ignoring the fact that, in the end, it is not really their "call" anyway...
On Florida: [More...]
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Update: FL State Senator Arthenia Joyner will argue for Hillary. Bill Nelson is arguing only for the Fla. Democratic Party. Katherine Seelye of the NY Times was mistaken.
Update: Florida Democratic Party Chair Karen Thurman sent out an email saying Bill Nelson will be arguing for the Florida Democratic Party. Is he arguing for both Hillary and the Florida Party? She says she expects the Committee will "restore at least half of our delegates." From the e-mail, which was forwarded to me:
The Party has not made any specific recommendations to the DNC since we submitted our delegate selection plan, but we have consistently noted that a record-breaking 1.75 million Florida Democrats voted in the state-run January 29th primary, which had all the candidates on the ballot.. [More...]
Tomorrow, the Rules & Bylaws Committee will hear an appeal written by Florida DNC Member Jon Ausman. I have asked our senior U.S. Senator, Bill Nelson, to present on behalf of Florida Democrats
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The Detroit Free Press reports that former Congressman and campaign manager for John Edwards, David Bonior and FL Rep. Robert Wexler will argue for Barack Obama at the Florida Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting Saturday.
Who is arguing for Hillary? The article doesn't say.
The hearing is televised and BTD and I will be live-blogging from our respective locations while TalkLeft commenter (and attorney) BackFromOhio will be TalkLeft's credentialed blogger at the meeting and live-blogging on scene.
Should be a big day, I hope you'll join us.
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Bump and Update: I just received permission to publish the materials. Here they are. By the way, TalkLeft will have a live-blogger credentialed at the meeting. S/he is BackFromOhio. So we will have two live-blogs going, BTD and I will live-blog together watching tv and BackFromOhio will live-blog from the meeting room.
I have just received the 38 page DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee Meeting Materials on Florida and Michigan. The DNC asks that we not publish them so I will honor their request. Here's what their e-mail says about them:
- This document contains copies of the MI and FL challenges, a staff analysis of each challenge, and the overall timeline.
- The documents are intentionally neutral. They do not make specific recommendations. The analysis seeks to provide a rules framework for each argument and the issues raised within each challenge.
- The analysis maintains that the RBC did have proper authority and jurisdiction in imposing the 100% sanction. The RBC had wide latidude in that decsion.
- According to the rules, the automatic sanctions was 50%, the RBC has within its authority to impose a sanction up to 100%.
We will go review them and update here with any observations. Here's what Big Tent Democrat wrote this morning on their conclusions. Comments are closed on his post, but you can comment here. [More...]
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I disagree with Big Tent Democrat on Obama's statement today on FL and MI. It's woefully inadequate and nothing he and the party haven't said before. It doesn't address the issue.
The issue is not seating the delegates at the convention. It's counting their votes and awarding delegates based on their votes BEFORE the nominee is chosen. It's about giving 2.3 million voters who took the time to go to the polls and who did nothing wrong have their votes count in deciding our party's nominee.
Obama is playing the same games he's always played on Michigan and Florida. He's not agreeing to let their votes count.
Saying they can be seated at the convention means they can cheer for the nominee and sit in on party platform and rules meetings. Big deal. If they can't have their votes count in determining the nominee, it's a shell game.
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You'll be hearing this a lot in coming days. The true delegate number and the one Barack Obama must surpass is 2209, not 2025. Litigator Mom over at The Confluence explains, beginning with the correct calculation:
50% + 1 of all the delegates, pledged and SDs, alloted to the 50 states, Guam and Puerto Rico.
Not 48 states, but 50 states. She explains: [More...]
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Hillary Clinton has no secret plan to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates. She's been totally transparent on her efforts to seat both delegations. Here's her plan, according to her campaign on May 4:
There is no secret plan. In fact, this story misrepresents the process laid out in the DNC rules for resolving the questions surrounding the seating of the Michigan and Florida delegations.
The Clinton campaign has been vocal in stating that the votes of 2.5 million people must be respected. Hardly a day goes by when a Clinton official doesn’t publicly declare that the votes of Michigan and Florida count and that the delegations from those states should be seated.
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A new Rasmussen poll out today, taken Saturday, before Bitter-Gate dominated the news:
The new poll, which was conducted Saturday and has a 4.5 percent margin of error, shows McCain with a 53-to-38 percent lead over Obama in Florida. If Clinton is the Democratic nominee, the poll shows her edging McCain 45 percent to 44 percent in the state.
The poll's results are similar to a Quinnipiac University poll of Floridians released this month that showed McCain topping Obama 46 percent to 37 percent but losing to Clinton, 44 percent to 42 percent.
The poll finds support slipping for Obama and that his unfavorability rating is 56%.
If he doesn't stand up for the right of Floridians to have their votes counted in time to select the nominee, I suspect they won't stand up for him in November.
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