Saturday Morning Open Thread

Having a good weekend so far?

Zimmmermanpalooza starts Monday! Are you stoked? I'll be deliberately AWOL during the trial (as opposed to the forced absence of work load.) Good luck to you all. (Added by Jeralyn: Note that this is written by Big Tent Democat. TalkLeft and I will definitely be following all developments.)

Open Thread.

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    CONSCIOUS vs. SUBCONSCIOUS, vol. 27 (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:45:27 PM EST
    If "stoked" means "makes me want to (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by Anne on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:58:52 PM EST
    stick needles in my eyes," then, yes, I guess I am.

    You could always chime in on the revelations about all the government efforts to collect information.  We're seeing a textbook case of wanting to have it both ways, with the government telling us, on the one hand, that these programs are supercalifragilistically VITAL to protecting us from EVIL, and on the other hand, telling us, hey, it's no big deal - it's not like we're actually listening to your calls or reading your e-mails.

    [I'm amazed - aren't you? - that with all this information, it seems the only plots we can ever interrupt are the ones we engineer ourselves.  And by "we," I mean the FBI.]

    They do apparently think we're too stupid to understand what "metadata" is and how it can be used - although they shouldn't, since there have to have been a gazillion Google searches on the term by now.

    In the NSA we trust, right?  No reason now not to go get that special chip - that way we can just give up all illusion that we actually have any rights.

    I can't wait to find out how much worse the GOP will be on this so I can start saving my money to help elect more Democrats like Obama...

    On twitter (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 01:08:07 PM EST

    Currently discussing stuff with Greenwald.


    Handy link (none / 0) (#5)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 03:25:27 PM EST
    Hmm (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 03:55:12 PM EST
    you might make me join twitter.

    I had the opposite reaction (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 04:42:19 PM EST
    Having read the Armando-GG thread, I am confirmed in my pre-existing anti-Twitter views. I much prefer to learn from BTD displaying analytical depth, rather than one necessarily conclusory mini-thought at a time.

    Same with (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 04:56:32 PM EST
    me, Peter.  I don't Tweet, and I don't read Twitter.   ;-)

    I hear ya, Mme. Zorba. (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 05:23:18 PM EST
    You know, it's hard enough nowadays keeping secret the location of our underground munitions bunker next to that abandoned airstrip, without giving the feds yet another means to track our every movemen--D'OH!!!

    LOL! (none / 0) (#13)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 06:36:55 PM EST
    Come on out to the Appalachians, Donald.  All kinds of munitions, plus enough stored food to carry us through the collapse of civilization and The End Times........

    I have (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 08:35:49 PM EST
    to agree with you after reading it. I said that thinking I would be able to follow what was going on but I simply just got lost. Twitter made me feel like i had ADHD.

    I'm with you, Peter. I do wish Armando (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 08:41:07 PM EST
    would start posting his thoughts on the politics of the day at TL again. I may not always agree with him, but I always find his thoughts interesting.

    I miss his presence at TL.

    Won't you come home, Armando? Won't you come home?


    I just tried (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 03:05:41 PM EST
    Looking at his Twitter stuff, using the link you provided, Peter.  I gave up after reading about six tweets.
    I prefer depth.  Twitter is just totally unappealing to me.  I don't like sound bites (or read bites, or whatever) in my news or news analyses, and I won't be returning to Twitter.

    Call me old-fashioned. But I really (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 05:04:28 PM EST
    Armando would resume posting here.

    Was the deceased alleged Boston (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 05:06:33 PM EST
    Marathon bomber using a server we don't  monitor?  Smart guy in some ways.

    Once a trial commences, I tend to ... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 03:56:56 PM EST
    ... not pay attention until the verdict is announced.

    That line will get me excused from jury duty every time.

    Aloha. :-D

    On a more somber note, ... (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 08:25:32 PM EST
    ... we should keep an eye turned toward South Africa, as an aged and frail former President Nelson Mandela was readmitted to a Pretoria hospital earlier today with a recurring lung infection. While he's breathing on his own, doctors have listed his condition as serious.

    Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika. (Lord Bless Africa.)

    Greenwald smacks down Mika Brezhinski (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by shoephone on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 11:53:45 AM EST
    this morning on MSNBC. He's really eating these people for breakfast.

    GO HEAT... (none / 0) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:32:19 PM EST

    Greenwald's source on NSA program (none / 0) (#17)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 02:59:16 PM EST
    identified. The person who leaked the information about the NSA data gathering programs is 29 year old Edward Snowden, a former undercover CIA employee.

    Snowden made the decision to go public with his identity.

    "I'm not going to hide," Snowden said Sunday afternoon. "Allowing the U.S. government to intimidate its people with threats of retaliation for revealing wrongdoing is contrary to the public interest."

    Asked whether he believed his disclosures would change anything, he said: "I think they already have. Everyone, everywhere now understands how bad things have gotten-- and they're talking about it. They have to power to decide for themselves whether they are willing to sacrifice their privacy to the surveillance state."

    Snowden left the country before the story broke. He is in Hong Kong and hopes to be given asylum somewhere in the world.

    Does Ecuador have an embassy in Hong Kong? What country would be willing to go against the U.S. by sheltering Snowden?

    While there are many nations in the world (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 03:22:09 PM EST
    that are not party to any extradition treaty with the U.S., there are other considerations.  First, as pointed out in the linked "wikianswer," any country can agree to extradite a given individual, treaty or no treaty, on a case by case basis.  Second, even where there is a treaty, there is the question of mutuality; the offense with which the target is charged in the U.S. (none at all against Mr. Snowden at this time, of course) must also be, or be equivalent to, a crime that exists in the "requested" country.  Third, under most treaties, extradition will not be granted for "offenses of a political character." And I'm sure there are others.

    As I recall, Mexico will not (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 04:49:48 PM EST
    extradite to the U.S. a person who  could possibly receive the death penalty here.  

    True, and also true of Canada (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 08:22:07 PM EST
    and many other civilized countries. But actually, it is not exactly that those nations won't extradite, but rather that they demand a condition before extraditing (which the U.S. will honor) that the defendant not face the death penalty upon his/her return for prosecution.

    It also doesn't mean (none / 0) (#23)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 08:49:52 AM EST
    That the Chinese government may not get a hold of him.  Since he did not expose the names of undercover agents and operations, they may still have some questions for him.

    CONSCIOUS vs. SUBCONSCIOUS, vol. 28 (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:56:07 PM EST
    For those non Twitter fans (none / 0) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 11:47:46 AM EST
    A little over an hour ago (Monday), Hillary looks like she has officially joined Twitter. With a single tweet she is picking up over 100 followers per minute.

    Twitter has verified the account. This is the profile she has listed:

    Wife, mom, lawyer, women & kids advocate, FLOAR, FLOTUS, US Senator, SecState, author, dog owner, hair icon, pantsuit aficionado, glass ceiling cracker, TBD...

    You can follow her HERE

    Word is obviously spreading (none / 0) (#26)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 11:58:12 AM EST
    as she has gained 12,000 new followers in the last ten minutes.

    CONSCIOUS vs. SUBCONSCIOUS, vol. 29 (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 12:24:03 PM EST