Tuesday Morning Open Thread

Open Thread.

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    Exciting TL community news... (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 11:56:15 AM EST
    Got plans to meet the man, the legend, the hard writin' bard, the card player savant, my nominee for Secretary of the Treasury, our very own Dadler and family tomorrow night in NYC.

    Any other NYC TL'ers wanna get down the tentative plan is heaping mounds of glorious pastrami at Katz's...very cool sh*t!

    Jealous! That should be a great time. (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:10:04 PM EST
    Dadler, you could not ask for a better guide!

    Sounds like fun! (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:06:20 PM EST
    Secretary of Treasury :) (none / 0) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:27:45 PM EST
    Yes please!

    Nope, head of NEA. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:29:11 PM EST
    Do not order hot tea at Katz's! (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:28:16 PM EST
    Have a great time.  

    No worries... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:42:53 PM EST
    I like Dr. Brown's Black Cherry with my pastrami...while Emperor Bloomberg still allows it anyway.  Strike the hammer while the iron is still hot!

    What I want to know is which (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:50:40 PM EST
    New Yorkers are so fat that they must have intake monitoring?  The sidewalks there are packed with people needing a calorie :)  We don't even make sidewalks in Alabama :)

    We have sidewalks but they roll 'em (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:52:52 PM EST
    up at 10 p.m.  Sooooo wish I were in NY today.  

    LOL... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:55:55 PM EST
    you're telling me sister...I'm 5'10" 150 lbs. soaking wet, I can't buy a Big Gulp?  Get the f*ck outta here!  

    I know he "means well", but he's paving a road to hell with those good intentions nonetheless.

    Just be glad he ain't governor of Alabama, imagine the draconian measures!


    I'm looking at rare plants (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:46:26 PM EST
    There is a false cannabis.  Looks pretty real to me.  I grow a backyard full of that and I'll find out how draconian my governor really is :)  My nosey neighbor Martha would have the black helicopters here.

    Please encourage the Dadler family (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:54:07 PM EST
    to share their play reviews.  

    Enjoy. Did you see this? Coming (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:46:18 PM EST
    at you from every angle:  DEA/horse racing/cartels

    Glad to hear... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:51:40 PM EST
    somebody is making a large scale investing in horse racing, even if it is quarterhorse racing.

    I vote (none / 0) (#10)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:47:08 PM EST
    for Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray.

    Could you two brainstorm a (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:31:12 PM EST
    national meet up?  Not Peoria, please.  

    Logistics ain't our main hurdle... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:46:20 PM EST
    we need that benefactor, or a fat government grant.

    I can't believe for such a large diverse community there ain't one motherf*cker who works for the GSA up in here to help us make it happen;)


    Or a millionaire (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:52:21 PM EST
    who could finance it.  :)

    Yes. We need a rep. 1% to rail against. (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 12:53:26 PM EST
    If you can't (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:01:26 PM EST
    ...take their money, drink their whiskey, screw their women, and vote against `em anyway, you don't belong in [politics]."

    -paraphrasing Molly Ivins, who took it from Democratic California State Treasurer Jesse Unruh.


    The DKers are still talking about (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:05:50 PM EST
     terrific freebie in Las Vegas put on by a politician.  

    I'm sure they'd be howling (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    If Eric Cantor put gave away freebies at a Federalist Society convention.

    Those weenies (none / 0) (#32)
    by sj on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:00:35 PM EST
    are irresistable, aren't they.  Do you think they see the irony?

    Very nice! (none / 0) (#59)
    by ks on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:25:31 PM EST
    Have fun, ignore the rain and enjoy!  

    for your relics of the 1980s file (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by desmoinesdem on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    Iowa has a separate Office of Drug Control Policy, created as part of the war on drugs in the 1980s. The office currently has a staff of eight, which will shrink to four in the new fiscal year next month. The director of this office earns $90,000 a year (very good salary for Iowa), and our governor just handed the job to a retiring Republican state legislator who has no experience in the field but used to employ the governor's daughter-in-law as a clerk. The position was never advertised, no applications were accepted, nor was anyone other than this guy interviewed before the governor offered him the job.

    Governor Braindead (none / 0) (#57)
    by Rupe on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:18:37 PM EST
    sure is a gem.

    no kidding (none / 0) (#63)
    by desmoinesdem on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:38:24 PM EST
    and he's not even one of the worst five governors in the country--maybe not even in the worst ten.

    Rick Perry. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:46:56 PM EST
    Has to be on the list of top ten bad governors.

    Add Rick Scott of FL (none / 0) (#84)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 11:57:13 PM EST
    Not as exciting as the Zimmerman's (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:42:21 PM EST
    But we just put in the Gladys Austin iris and Abbey Chant.  Fingers crossed, toes crossed, would love them to be successful and add even more iris to the yard.

    My sister lives in NC and has stunning iris plants (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:43:39 PM EST
    all over her beautiful yard.  She sends me pics all the time.  

    What?! No paws crossed? (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:47:35 PM EST
    That's what some of my iris needed. Roxy! keeping her paws crossed and not trampling them (ok, so there was a opossum in the bush behind them!)

    I just love the ones in my yard. Don't know the variety though . . .


    Those are wonderful! (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by sj on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 06:10:57 PM EST
    I love iris.  That's one thing I miss from the old 'hood.  Lots of irises in the spring.  I've been missing them alot every spring since I moved to Baltimore.  

    And then!  a mini-miracle.  This year I saw a small planting of some beautiful purple ones in one of those little neighborhood parks that was restored last summer.  

    Dear God, Please help the irises take over the Spring flower plantings, Amen.


    I ordered some Superstition (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 04:25:01 AM EST
    A one gallon plant, very very dark colored...almost looks black.  Putting them in a shadier part of the yard, says that that might increase my chances of them being very dark in color from what I've read.  Direct sun can bleed out some of the color in some of the deeper hued iris.

    Anyone collect vinyl records here? (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Rupe on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:25:39 PM EST
    I've started recently (in the last year) after acquiring my brother's B&O Beogram 3300 turntable and a family friend's 300 record collection...he's a real audiophile so they're all in immaculate condition and some great records in there...like every ZZ Top album ever made it seems, plus a great live album from The Band, everything from WAR, Ry Cooder, lots of Jazz/Blues and folk music, local and national.

    But: I'm looking for a good record cleaning system, something a little better than the common brush and solution RCA sells.  Anyone have any setup they can recommend?

    Also loving my local Half Price Books, just picked up Led Zep [I], Springsteen's Nebraska and Stevie Wonder's Songs in the Key of Life for $5 each, and Nebraska is in near-mint condition!

    Check out Nitty Gritty (none / 0) (#74)
    by ks on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:30:29 PM EST
    I think you are using the standard Discwasher brush and solution, right?  That works fine for most uses and given the state of your collection might be all you need but it wouldn't hurt to check out Nitty Gritty.  Pricey but they are well reviewed.



    Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Angel on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:44:34 AM EST
    Study Says `Stand Your Ground' Laws Increase Homicides


    This is what I worry about (none / 0) (#107)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:59:47 AM EST
    My bold...

    As the authors note, the increase in homicides may not be viewed by everyone as "unambiguously bad." It could be driven by individuals protecting themselves from imminent harm by using lethal force. But it could also be driven by an escalation in violence that, absent the "castle doctrine," wouldn't have ended in serious injury for either party, they say.

    I think the reduction in legal sanctions against escalating the violence causes people to skip all the other options they may have and go right for the lethal force. Some people may think that is fine - if someone is in your home they deserve what they get. I just don't agree.


    I agree with you. (none / 0) (#114)
    by Angel on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:25:53 AM EST
    Have you heard about the case in Houston (currently being tried) where a man shot and killed his next-door neighbor over loud party noise?  The guy walked over to the neighbor's house with a gun and a video camera, called the police, shot the neighbor...then said he feared for his life even though he had plenty of opportunity to leave at any time.  Here is a link to that trial which is currently under way.  



    Zimmerman order filed (4.25 / 4) (#33)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:06:58 PM EST
    I hesitate to bring up Zimmerman in an open thread given the number of threads already devoted to him, but this seems pretty newsworthy.  According to the Orlando Sentinel, Judge Lester's written order revoking Zimmerman's bond was filed yesterday:

    The judge who revoked George Zimmerman's bond did so after he determined that it was "apparent" that Zimmerman's wife had lied under oath, and clear that Zimmerman "does not properly respect the law."


    "It is apparent that [Shellie] Zimmerman testified untruthfully at the bond hearing," the judge writes in his order. "The Defendant also testified, but did not alert the Court to the misinformation."


    The judge writes that his considered several factors, most of which weighed against Zimmerman.

    Among them, "this is a serious charge for which life may be imposed; the evidence against him is strong; he has been charged with one prior crime, for which he went through a pre-trial diversion program, and has had an injunction lodged against him" for domestic violence.

    "Most importantly, though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he does not properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process," Lester wrote.

    The only factors that "heavily weigh in his favor," Lester wrote, are "that he turned himself in upon the issuance of the original warrant and has kept authorities abreast of his current location."

    Shellie Zimmerman charged with perjury (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:37:03 PM EST
    Arrested. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:42:06 PM EST
    OMG. Let the firestorm begin. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:43:03 PM EST
    It may not be enough to have (3.67 / 3) (#46)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:50:53 PM EST
    "Open" threads - J may have to start designating some of them as "Non-GZ/TM," so those who don't want to get bogged down in it have somewhere to discuss other things.

    It's been quite a day; between those who want nothing to come between them and their guns, and those who want to purge the voter rolls of non-citizens, I feel like I wandered into Red State.  


    Me too. I'm thinking of wandering out. (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:52:25 PM EST
    I need to find a 12-step program.  

    better than a (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:57:25 PM EST
    12 gauge shotgun.

    Not that desperate yet. (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:01:10 PM EST
    Oh god, yes (none / 0) (#77)
    by sj on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:52:36 PM EST
    J may have to start designating some of them as "Non-GZ/TM,"
    Found myself in one of those Non-"Non-GZ/TM" threads inadvertantly the other day.  Ducked out as soon as I realized what I'd done.

    lol!~ (2.00 / 1) (#44)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:49:01 PM EST
    perhaps the Z's will gain a tad more respect for the system now . . . ?

    Yep. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:43:54 PM EST
    Talk about follow the money (none / 0) (#66)
    by ks on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:52:23 PM EST
    From the Orlando Sentinel:

    In an affidavit, prosecutors revealed new details about Shellie Zimmerman's alleged efforts to hide money from the court.

    Four days before she testified to having no knowledge of the funds, the affidavit says, Shellie Zimmerman began a series of transfers into her account -- totaling $74,000 between April 16 and April 19.

    The affidavit says about $47,000 more was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's. Shellie Zimmerman withdrew about $18,000 more cash, prosecutors say.

    Prosecutors say the Zimmermans used a rudimentary "code" to discuss the money in recorded jailhouse phone calls -- referring to $100,000, for example, as "$100." At least two of the calls, the state alleges, were made while Shellie Zimmerman and her husband's sister were at a local credit union making the transactions.

    "In my account do I have at least $100?" Zimmerman asked. "No... there's like $8. $8.60," she replied.

    Zimmerman told his wife to "pay off all the bills" with the money, prosecutors said, including an American Express card and a Sam's Club card. He also instructed her on how to pay for his bail.

    "According to the affidavit, after her husband was released on bond days after the bond hearing, she transferred more than $85,000 back into his account. A branch manager at their credit union told prosecutors he knew the couple, and saw Shellie Zimmerman talking to her husband on the phone on April 16.

    The manager said he'd helped Shellie Zimmerman transfer control of George Zimmerman's account, at one point speaking directly to George Zimmerman by phone.

    Yikes, if that holds up, SZ is in big trouble.


    I thought O'Mara said they were fearful and (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:27:26 PM EST
    confused and that's why she answered the questions the way she did in court.  They weren't too confused to discuss paying off the American Express and Sam's Club cards.  

    That's going to be a hard sell (none / 0) (#76)
    by ks on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:49:17 PM EST
    For whoever winds up defending SZ.  The report about the affadavit seems to show very active and careful planning rather than fear and confusion.  O'Mara will be lucky to aviod any collateral damage.  

    Judge, what do you really think? (3.50 / 2) (#42)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:45:42 PM EST
    That's sarcasm, btw. It seems unlikely that Lester is going to grant immunity to GZ since he already has decided the evidence against him is strong and GZ has no respect for the law. But I'll be interested to hear what Jeralyn and other lawyers say.  

    I'm thinking Mr. O'Mara now really (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 03:50:51 PM EST
    wishes he hadn't challenged assigned judge # 1.  

    prior charge & injunction back in? (2.00 / 1) (#50)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:01:05 PM EST
    Apparently, the judge does think that GZ's prior arrest and DV injunction are relevant. It didn't sound like that in the bond hearing.

    Since this is an open thread, I'd like to mention that GZ's cell is smaller than the one Bradley Manning occupied at Quantico. Let's not forget that, not only may he be kept in jail, but he may have little or no contact with others.


    For the record: (4.67 / 3) (#56)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:18:04 PM EST
    I don't think that even the most virulent anti-GZ poster feels that his confinement should be as barbaric as our society has allowed our prisons to become.

    guilty, or not; awaiting trial,or post trial, the loss of freedom is punishment enough. Xtra legal punishment by prison officials should be as vigorously investigated, prosecuted, and punished as that of the prisoner's in question.

    The barbaric sadism which aptly defines many of our institutions is a blight on any country that permits it, especially one that holds itself out as "a beacon of democracy."


    Pretty Sure He's Alone... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:18:31 PM EST
    ...so some idiot doesn't kill him.  They aren't doing it as a punishment.

    And as much as I agree with a lot of aspects of our prisons, when you start comparing us worldwide, we don't look that shabby.  Which is definitely not an endorsement of our treatment, more a statement of fact.


    Well said (none / 0) (#61)
    by ks on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:27:11 PM EST
    I expect he is constitutionally entitled (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:02:06 PM EST
    to one hour of 24 out of his cell.  Peter?  

    Answer: "it depends." (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:15:14 PM EST
    Pre-trial detention reviewed as possible due process violation:  link

    His comments (none / 0) (#53)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:04:29 PM EST
    have brought forth something that the Pro-GZ folks have deftly dismissed up till now, Z's prior acts. Excusing them with, "he was never convicted," as if "never convicted" meant the same as "never occurred."

    It also sheds some light, and raises some eyebrows about the SPD's "thorough investigation" and their determination...."squeaky clean."


    What the court may consider re setting (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:06:44 PM EST
    bond/bail/OR etc. is broader than what should come before the jury though.  

    OK I just need to get it out (4.25 / 4) (#62)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:35:44 PM EST

    1.  Instead of worrying about the statements by Martin's lawyers and family impacting the jury pool's view of credibility, maybe they should focus on keeping his wife from lying to protect him.

    2. "The judge who revoked George Zimmerman's bond did so after he determined that it was "apparent" that Zimmerman's wife had lied under oath, and clear that Zimmerman "does not properly respect the law."

    The idea that this bond/passport issue would have no impact on perceptions of Zimmerman's credibility looked good coming out of the gate.

    I think the judge in your case indicating that you do not respect the law before your trial is a bad thing. I hope Jeralyn doesn't try to spin this and just admits that the Zimmerman's screwed up.

    Except (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:50:13 PM EST
    IF Shellie Zimmerman actually committed perjury, that STILL does not have anything to do with whether or not George Zimmerman felt threatened enough to shoot someone to death who was allegedly beating the crap out of him.

    The only reason (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:15:59 PM EST
    he is safe is because of the way that their conversations went and the way the questioning went.

    The judge specifically said that the man did not properly respect the law after saying earlier that he had deceived the court.  Jeralyn and others jumped all over themselves trying to show that the passport and other issues were innocent slip ups, but the totality of the situation is that the guy and his wife were willing to play fast and loose with the facts to keep him out of jail.

    Which is kind of a bad image to project given that his version of the story seems designed in every way to keep him out of jail.


    That's Such a Powerful Statement (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:42:23 PM EST
    "Does not properly respect the law."

    At every turn GZ has done nothing bad made serious errors in judgement.  And now he's been called out on one of them by a judge.

    I don't see how this can go to trial.  They have to convince a jury that not only is he telling the truth, but that he made the right call that night.  Something that to me seems highly unlikely.  Every decision he has made has been wrong and not just a little wrong, it been the exact opposite of right.  He's lost his wife from taking the stand, the judge isn't exactly pleased, and I am sure his attorney is got lumps from banging his head against the wall.  And those tapes are going to be some pretty damning to GZ integrity.

    Really, GZ, the cops never thought of prisoners using code or taping their conversations.  And talking to the banker, damn, them is some big balls you carry.

    I wish we could get the non-attorney version of what a client like this brings to the table from a defense attorney, what they say to each other. I bet they even have some sort of name for a client who can't make a good decision to save his life.

    I will be shocked if this goes to trial.

    And I also wonder how those donors feel about GZ paying off his credit cards with their money.  That can not sit well.


    he said on his website (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 06:50:34 PM EST
    the money would be used for legal fees and to pay his living expenses.

    This has nothing to do with whether the case will go to trial.

    How about waiting to hear his explanation for why he didn't think the money was available for bond?


    I was thinking the other day that I doubt either (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 07:39:38 PM EST
    side wants a trial. I would not be surprised to see a manslaughter plea, with this onto in jail going a little way towards time served- it was a possible explanation for the delay in the new bond hearing.

    No, it doesn't. (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:28:27 PM EST
    However, if Shellie conspired with her husband to mislead the court regarding the couple's assets and the money in George's defense fund, then that reflects directly upon George's credibility as well.

    I would therefore think that the prosecution's discussion of George's alleged role in any such attempt to conspire would likely be admissible in his criminal trial, once he takes the stand to testify on his own behalf. While it wouldn't reflect directly upon his alleged criminal culpability in taking Trayvon Martin's life, it does strike at the heart of his credibility as a witness.

    But Shellie's alleged role in that attempt is tangential at best to the criminal proceedings against her husband, and ultimately irrelevant to the charges against him.


    Seems like (none / 0) (#86)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 07:36:27 AM EST
    You are now in a different area that has no charge pending - "attempted conspiracy".

    It all seems, to me, like (none / 0) (#67)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:53:56 PM EST
    this is an over-reach for a bond hearing.  As the judge did say, Zimmerman turned himself in (both times), and has kept the Court informed.  That should be it for now.  Other comments, including those related to a possible SYG hearing and/or trial seem injudicious and prejudicial.   As for Mrs. Zimmerman, the perjury charge seems unduly aggressive given the general difficulty in proving such charges.  As a nursing graduate, this could unfairly impact upon her licensure capabilities.  And, if Mrs. Zimmerman was possibly committing a crime,  Zimmerman taking a position other than that of a potted palm may have been interpreted as testifying against his wife, something he felt he could not do.

    SZ (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:58:35 PM EST
    Has already been released on $1000 bond.

    It's all just presure to make him take a... (none / 0) (#80)
    by redwolf on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 06:30:49 PM EST
    plea bargain.  It's becoming clear that the criminal justice simply system crushes the non rich and non politically connected.

    Quite frankly the very fact that's the bond hearing that driving all of this is just going to make the average person decide the whole system is rigged against em.


    Who made SZ testify falsely, if that is proven (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 07:04:10 PM EST
    to be the case?

    Equality Under the Law meets SYG... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:17:38 PM EST
    Indiana upping the ante...perpetrators of unlawful intrusions not immune from lethal force in self defense, even if they have a badge.

    Seems fair to me...an intruder is an intruder.  Authority worshipping gun nuts may be twisted into a pretzel with this one though.

    why not (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:58:56 PM EST
    Our country has let the Tea baggers turn it upside down anyway.

    They're going to rally around the Presidential candidate who makes firing cops (and firmen, teachers) the centerpiece of his platform.

    makes sense; fire cops, buy more handguns.


    Tea Baggers (none / 0) (#121)
    by Rojas on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:17:28 PM EST
    The bottom rail was placed on top long before they showed up on the radar.

    Fire the Civil rights division, put a hundred thousand cops on the street.


    Is this the Professor Louis Gates law? (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:21:28 PM EST
    Actually they (none / 0) (#22)
    by BTAL on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:23:27 PM EST
    are in support of your position.  The feeling is that LEOs have been stepping over the line, especially when it comes to no-knock warrants and over zealous home entries.

    Now, the discussion is how smart it will be to grab for your weapon when facing a group of heavily armed, vested, night goggle wearing, adrenalin pumped SWAT cops vs facing down a common punk burgler.  


    I know... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:27:26 PM EST
    I said it seems fair to me...more equality under the law is good, less different rules different fools is good.

    I'm just not sure if others inclined to support SYG laws will agree.  NRA is facing some backlash from typical supporters for supporting the law.


    Same re a person dealing drugs (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:29:23 PM EST
    from residence.  Dealer loses.  

    Wasn't Trayvon Martin the one whose constitutional (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dan the Man on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 01:34:52 PM EST
    rights were limited because he did not have the right to bear arms in Florida, and he could not exercise his right to bear arms to Stand His Ground and shoot and kill George Zimmerman?

    I don't understand why progressives have chosen this issue. Limiting any constitutional right is not progressive.

    Under Florida law, it would've been illegal for Trayvon Martin (a minor) to bear a firearm to defend himself against people who might harm him.  So if the government was "Limiting any constitutional right", it was Trayvon Martin whose rights were being limited because the government banned him from exercising his right to bear arms and stand his ground.

    If Trayvon Martin had the right to bear arms and Stand His Ground and Trayvon Martin was the one who shot and killed George Zimmerman instead of the other way around, an entirely different story might have been told by Martin which would've explained why he was the one should be able to Stand His Ground and not Zimmerman.

    I express my complete support for minors to have the equal right to bear arms and stand his ground in Florida.  Unfortunately, I have not heard of any other "supporters" of the right to bear arms say the same thing.

    Well, I for one would ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 02:33:29 PM EST
    ... feel so much safer, knowing that young adolescents could carry concealed weapons legally while hanging out at the mall.



    as long as they aren't swearing (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by CST on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 02:38:00 PM EST
    Thought of you when I read today's (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 02:40:38 PM EST
    poem at Writer's Almanac:
    How Baseball Saved My Marriage

    thanks! (none / 0) (#31)
    by CST on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 02:48:11 PM EST
    I love it.

    Quick check of DK reveals a (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:23:14 PM EST
    similar fascination with the Zimmerman matter.  But, kind of surprising, more comments skeptical of Mr. Zimmerman's credibility:  link

    2012 NCAA College World Series: (none / 0) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 05:13:00 PM EST
    The final three slots of the 2012 NCAA College World Series have been filled by Kent State (another mid-major upstart who knocked off No. 6 Oregon in Eugene last night), Arkansas (who upset No. 5 Baylor in Waco) and two-time defending NCAA national champion South Carolina (who eliminated Oklahoma).

    All games of this double-elimination tournament, which commences on Friday at TD Ameritrade Park in Omaha, have now been scheduled, and are as follows (the final regular season national rankings for CWS participants are included):

    Friday, June 15:
    Game 1 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Stony Brook (No. 89) v. UCLA (No. 1)
    Game 2 (9:00 p.m. EDT): Florida State (No. 3) v. Arizona (No. 14)

    Saturday, June 16:
    Game 3 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Arkansas (No. 19) v. Kent State (No. 74)
    Game 4 (9:00 p.m. EDT): Florida (No. 2) v. South Carolina (No. 11)

    Sunday, June 17:
    Game 5 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Game 1 loser v. Game 2 loser (loser of Game 5 is eliminated)
    Game 6 (9:00 p.m. EDT): Game 1 victor v. Game 2 victor

    Monday, June 18:
    Game 7 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Game 3 loser v. Game 4 loser (loser of Game 7 is eliminated)
    Game 8 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Game 3 victor v. Game 4 victor

    Tuesday, June 19:
    Game 9 (8:00 p.m. EDT): Game 5 victor v. Game 6 loser (loser of Game 9 is eliminated)

    Wednesday, June 20:
    Game 10 (8:00 p.m. EDT): Game 7 victor v. Game 8 loser (loser of Game 10 is eliminated)

    Thursday, June 21:
    Game 11 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Game 9 victor v. Game 6 victor (if Game 9 victor loses Game 11, Game 9 victor is eliminated, and Game 6 victor advances to championship series)
    Game 12 (9:00 p.m. EDT): Game 10 victor v. Game 8 victor (if Game 10 victor loses Game 12, Game 10 victor is eliminated, and Game 8 victor advances to championship series)

    Friday, June 22:
    Game 13 (5:00 p.m. EDT): Game 9 victor v. Game 6 victor (Necessary only if Game 6 victor loses on Thursday. Winner of Game 13 advances to championship series.)
    Game 14 (9:00 p.m. EDT): Game 10 victor v. Game 8 victor (Necessary only if Game 8 victor loses on Thursday. Winner of Game 14 advances to championship series.)

    The two surviving teams from Thursday and / or Friday will then meet for the NCAA College World Series championship, which is a best-of-three series.

    Game 1 of the championship series begins on Sunday, June 24 at 8:00 p.m. EDT. Game 2 is on Monday, June 25 at 8:00 p.m. If necessary, Game 3 will be played on Tuesday, June 26 at 8:00 p.m.

    All College World Series games will be carried live on the ESPN network (ESPN and ESPN2).

    WPS (none / 0) (#78)
    by Cylinder on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    Woo Pig Sooie!

    That is all.


    Jamie Dimon is testifying right now (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:28:38 AM EST
    before the Senate Banking Committee on C-span 1 if anyone else is interested.  I'll be watching

    Can you tell if Dimon's nose is (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:36:01 AM EST
    getting longer with each word that comes out of his mouth?

    Jim DeMint (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:13:36 AM EST
    Isn't asking any questions right now.  Doesn't want to focus on the "clawbacks" that will need to happen, you know standing in judgement..that's mean.  You have to take risks to make a profit.  All these government regulations haven't helped.  The banks should be allowed to develop their own voluntary rules.

    Oh, and there isn't anyway to distinguish between proprietary trading and hedging.


    I'm glad you are watching, as my (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:17:33 AM EST
    tolerance for what you are hearing and seeing is about non-existent.

    It's somewhat better for my blood pressure to get someone else's live-blog take on things!

    At this point, don't you feel like you could write the script these people will be reading from today?  


    Sherrod Brown now (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:14:26 AM EST
    Was the OCC told about the trades (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:17:15 AM EST
    taking place prior to April?  Mr. Dimon said that he had been "misinformed" and he let them know as soon as he knew.  Was the OCC told before the earnings call?  He doesn't know

    The OCC ought to be having to (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:19:36 AM EST
    account for its own inactions, in my opinion; it  seems to function less as a watchdog and more as a facilitator of whatever it is the banks want to do.

    5 regulators in London (none / 0) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:22:44 AM EST
    Brown insinuates that there are not enough regulators to oversee everything that must be overseen.  JPMorgan is too big and too complex

    Well he just doesn't know (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:18:01 AM EST
    much of anything about what the OCC was told when.

    Mike Johanns now (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:26:47 AM EST
    Wants to know how many onsite regulators Dimon has now.  Dimon says it must be 100s.  How much has Dimon's regulatory costs gone up due to Dodd/Frank meeting all the regulators needs.  Dimon says $1 billion....oy oy

    Mike wants to talk about this right now because he says that Jamie has apologized for what happened that brought them all here, and so that is all okay now.


    Jon Tester now (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:31:34 AM EST
    Just tore his a$$ up in the first sentence, literally said....Job Failure.  Now talking about MF Global's shell game, and why did it take JPMorgan 7 months to return the MF Global money they held while his farmers and ranchers suffered.  Tearing him up!

    Tearing him up too for being (none / 0) (#99)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:33:46 AM EST
    complicit in what MF Global did when JPMorgan suspected, was convinced that MF Global was raiding its clients account and put them on debit alert.

    Jerry Morgan R-Kansas (none / 0) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:42:04 AM EST
    can't wait to kiss Jamie's a$$.  How repulsive, he kissed it and put a cherry on top.

    Jamie Dimon says that his people treat the customers like they'd treat their own parents.

    Jerry Morgan believes in a free market system, and does imply that what JPMorgan does can affect how all of us view capitalism.  And now he is talking about the "Living Will" that protects us all from having to pay for JPMorgan's failure.  When Jamie Dimon can get all the liquidity he needs from the FED at any time to attempt to earn his way out of all his failures though, he destroys what my dollars is worth.  He destroys any incentive that I will ever have to save.

    Dimon says he's paid the FDIC 5 billion dollars too,  apparently for nothing if you listen to Jamie and I'm supposed to be impressed too with that.  Jamie Dimon is literally giving 5 billion dollars to people of the United States for nothing.


    Who knew (none / 0) (#117)
    by Mr Tuxedo on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 01:36:49 PM EST
    that all of Jamie Dimon's "people" are named Menendez?

    Jamie Dimon says that his people treat the customers like they'd treat their own parents.

    Did anyone check (none / 0) (#120)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:06:32 PM EST
    if their parents were chained to the floor in their basement, or in a homeless shelter?

    Herb Kohl (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:46:45 AM EST
    When are you going to loan to regular Americans?  JPMorgan's loan to deposits ratios sux.  Now he wants to know why JPMorgan keeps losing everybody's paperwork when they need to have modifications to their mortgages.  Jamie says to send him the particulars on the people that are being specifically discussed and he will oversee it personally.  They are simply overwhelmed.

    OMG, this is such a sh!t show, Tracy... (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:56:28 AM EST
    GOP is kissing Dimon's golden ass, the Dems are blustering and pummeling and shouting, and Dimon's staying calm, shining them on, secure in the knowledge that nobody's gonna do anything to him or his corporation.

    I bet he's been religiously practicing his "humble and regretful" facial expressions so we can all see how sincere and honest he is.

    Where's my trashcan - I need to barf.


    He shined like a diamond cast in silver (none / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:22:53 AM EST
    most of the time.  He almost glowed like that glow worm toy a few times.

    Roger Wicker (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:50:11 AM EST
    Too much regulation....too complex, and mentions Living Will.

    John Tester (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:54:01 AM EST
    In a very tight race for re-election.

    It was a miracle Montana ever (none / 0) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:56:04 AM EST
    gave him his office in the first place.  He already won one impossible race, by making the arguments that Montana needed made.

    Yep (none / 0) (#110)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:09:36 AM EST
    Another one in the GOP column this fall?

    I can't say that at this point (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:20:47 AM EST
    I have doubts because the farmers and ranchers and the simple folk of Montana like people that kick a$$ and take names.  They like leaders who fight for them.  He stands a chance again but it won't be any easier than the first time.

    Jeff Merkley (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:54:47 AM EST
    Lists all the "free money" JPMorgan has received from TARP and AIG.  Wouldn't JPMorgan have gone down without government intervention.  Jamie says he only took TARP because he was told he had to.  AIG would not have taken him down either.  Jamie says what Merkley is insinuating is NOT TRUE.

    JPMorgan is not in the hedge fund business he also insists to Merkley.  So Merkley reads off the facts that when Dimon built his CIO unit he is using government insured deposits to run something that falls under the definition of a hedge fund.


    David Vitter (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:02:47 AM EST
    Too much regulation, too confusing,  Dodd/Frank not working, need systemic changes.  Whenever I stare at him I still see a diaper, can't help it, I guess I'll never recover.

    Vitter won't quit touching his face as Dimon discusses what systemic changes would be conducive to him having the business that save the U.S. economy I guess....I can't imagine where this drivel is going....can only speculate that that is what would be improved if Dimon got his way.  It is creepy how much Vitter keeps touching and caressing his face while Dimon talks though.

    Vitter keeps talking about systemic change within the company needed, but what is that?  Do I just guess?  Is Dimon supposed to guess?  WTF was any of that about?  


    Kay Hagan wants to discuss the size of the trade (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:08:12 AM EST
    Dimon says the trade should have never got to that size :)

    Dimon says a "new model" has been put into place, but he said previously that this is really the "old model".  So the new old model, or the old new model is in place now.  Everything's fixed, nothing to see here :) The future is not the past, things change, the old model was a better predictor in April than the new model was, got that :)

    And management can't rely on models to run business okay?  Jamie says that too....you gotta go with your gut?  And Basel iii makes Jamie cry okay?


    Michael Bennet (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:15:23 AM EST
    Wants to discuss the make up of the CIO unit.  Why does it have hedging functions and investing functions in the same place?  Jamie says it was more cost efficient.

    Also Michael Bennet really liked that offer that Jamie made to Herb Kohl's constituents and if you are in Colorado and JPMorgan has been losing your paperwork and not returning your calls, give Michael Bennet's office a call and leave your name and contact info so that Jamie can take care of you personally too.

    U.S. Drones Hugely Unpopular Worldwide! (none / 0) (#115)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 11:42:33 AM EST
    From Greenwald article in Salon:

    The new multi-nation poll finds that "in predominantly Muslim nations, American anti-terrorism efforts are still widely unpopular." Beyond Muslim nations, "in nearly all countries, there is considerable opposition to a major component of the Obama administration's anti-terrorism policy: drone strikes." Specifically, "in 17 of 20 countries, more than half disapprove of U.S. drone attacks." As usual, "Americans are the clear outliers on this issue - 62% approve of the drone campaign, including most Republicans (74%), independents (60%) and Democrats (58%)." But in every other surveyed country besides India (which naturally supports any attacks in Pakistan), more people disapprove of Obama's drone strikes than approve, usually by very wide margins. Indeed, "the policy is unpopular in majority Muslim nations, but also in Europe and other regions as well"; specifically, "at least three-in-four [are opposed] in a diverse set of countries: Greece (90%), Egypt (89%), Jordan (85%), Turkey (81%), Spain (76%), Brazil (76%) and Japan (75%)."

    Wisconsin Talking point wiped away (none / 0) (#116)
    by Slado on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 12:11:19 PM EST
    New Poll has Mitt in lead.

    Ugh....and there is a diary up at DK (none / 0) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 02:46:09 PM EST
    about why someone wants Bob Kerrey to win.  Bob Kerrey is a crook, a horrible crook.  I know, pols are pols and do what they do but the man has zero ethos.  He would have sold his own mother when he was younger and he has given zero inclination that has changed.  Hell, that was before we found out that he was not a war hero and quite the opposite.  Is this really about governing?  I cannot stomach it.  I'd rather throw up for days straight.

    Haven't seen any recent polls (none / 0) (#119)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 03:26:08 PM EST
    But I don't think Bob Kerrey is especially well liked in Nebraska anymore.  And currently, Romney is leading all polls in the presidential sweepstakes in the state, so the mood does not look conducive for a Kerrey win.