Obama on Quran Burning: No Crime

By Jeralyn, Section Obama Administration
Posted on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:27:57 PM EST
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Here's President Obama on ABC this morning (commercial free), saying Terry Jones should "listen to those better angels" and skip the Quran burning. Obama says it will endanger the troops and serve as a recruiting tool for al Qaida, including suicide bombers in American cities.

He also says "his understanding" is there's no crime if Jones proceeds, other than a citation for public burning. If Obama believes Jones' acts will serve as a recruiting tool for al Qaida, why doesn't he have him charged with conspiring or attempting to to provide material support to terrorists? Or attempt or conspiracy to violate 18 USC Section 2383, Rebellion and Insurrection?

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Maybe Obama should have Jones arrested on one of these charges and ask for detention, and then dismiss the case and release him on 9/12? [More...]

Or for a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2387: Activities affecting armed forces generally? Or 18 U.S.C. § 2388: Activities affecting armed forces during war? Here are the possibilities under Chapter 115, Treason, Sedition and Subversive Activities to choose from.

An attempt occurs when one takes a substantial step toward the commission of the crime. Acquiring the Qurans could be a substantial step. Since he's agreed with others to commit an act likely to be harmful to the armed services or assist al Qaida in recruiting, acquiring the Qurans could be an overt act.

I think Jones' "better angels" will advise him to abandon his plans. But today is 9/9, and if Obama wanted, he could have Jones arrested on one of these charges and request detention. The Government can ask for a three day extension to hold the detention hearing, during which time he would be held in custody. At the end of the three days, it could dismiss the charges and send him home. Drastic? Yes. Unfair? Yes. But that hasn't stopped the Government before.

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Obama on Quran Burning: No Crime | 90 comments (90 topical)

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There now is a travel advisory (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by Cream City on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:39:13 PM EST

to many countries, advising Americans to avoid them owing to the anger about burning Q'urans.

That would seem to set up some possible legal arguments? against the fool Jones if an American civilian is attacked in such countries. Or even small-claims civil suits against him by any who had to change travel plans?

Btw, good for the students in SDS at Gainesville who will protest this. The President has said his piece -- as have even Palin and Romney and others of all political persuasions -- so it's time to leave it to others to (lawfully) protest this.

But ya gotta love it when SDS is seen as on the same side of protecting the troops! (As we always were, but it wasn't seen that way. . . .)

I'm thinking out plan to see the changing (none / 0) (#56)
by oculus on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:10:47 PM EST

of the guard @ the India/Pakistan border ain't such a good one. Whose idea was this?


When traveling abroad... (none / 0) (#63)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:21:00 PM EST

in some countries, you should have been assuming the role of a Canadian for some time now...long before this clown's antics.

Aren't these travel advisories just adding more fuel to the fire? I really don't see how they help any.


: Funny. Several of us Amercan yahoos (5.00 / 1) (#65)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:24:21 PM EST

sewed Canadian flags on our backpacks back in my mid/late-1980's world travels. Just made everything much easier. And the Canadians were in on it too, they understood...

: I usually ignore the warnings and will (none / 0) (#64)
by oculus on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:22:30 PM EST

this time. May take a headscarf though.

I'm surprised... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:40:44 PM EST

are you really semi-advocating for a treason charge? Because it never stopped John Law before? Say it ain't so J!

It's times like this when we need to stick to our supposed principles more than ever...free speech demands we leave this clown alone and let him have his hate party.

And if Obama were really concerned about the safety of our troops he'd bring 'em home...or absent that start some damage control on this...which, if true, puts our troops in danger in ways the FLA clown could only dream of.

No I'm not advocating it (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:59:01 PM EST

I would have said so if I were. I'm pointing out the differential in standards we use when deciding who to charge. A "religious leader" gets a pass, John Q. Public rarely does.


I see... (none / 0) (#9)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:02:48 PM EST

thanks for clarifying...woulda been way out of character for you...your adherence to your principles, especially when challenging, is something I've long admired.


Just like Ed Koch used to sweep the streets (none / 0) (#25)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:23:02 PM EST

of NYC of all the wackos and homeless before the big celebration, then let them out come Monday.

I still remember how they had that little incident around the Statue of Liberty Centennial back in 86, where the guy they'd kept off the streets because he was both nuts and dangerous went wild with a samurai sword on the Staten Island Ferry the Monday or Tuesday after, about 12 hours after he was released from Bellvue.


I was in NYC in the 80s (none / 0) (#27)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:31:13 PM EST

and remember a big deal about a crazy woman who used to frighten people and sat around in her own excrement around the times square area.
they tried to put her in a nice clean hospital but the individual rights people came to her aid so she could continue to enjoy her god given right to marinate in her own excrement.
I think she died of exposure.


Well, if she's gone, she was replaced (none / 0) (#35)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:41:57 PM EST

I saw a woman doing her business in Madison Square Park - the Fifth Avenue side - on a warm late Saturday afternoon about 2 years ago. Biggest, scariest backside you've ever seen, all accompanied by her commentary.

FWIW, there are any number of people who die of exposure in NYC in every season of every year. Life in the Big City.


: of course (none / 0) (#38)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:44:02 PM EST

this was a big story that was the lead the local news for months. many high profile people got involved. on both sides.
I wish I could remember the name.

Exactly (none / 0) (#57)
by ruffian on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:11:08 PM EST

I was going to ask when the predator drones would be flying over Gainesville. I guess I can just look up.


"free speech" (none / 0) (#4)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:54:59 PM EST

is a very relative term..

This in-bred doofus burns a Koran and garners more media attention than people like Nader and Chomsky get in a year..

Maybe we should devote some time at some point to examining how that happens..

got an olberman segment (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:06:31 PM EST

sent to me today about a Memphis church and Islamic center working together.

wont hear much about that no doubt.


: If the Kristols, Krauthammers (none / 0) (#18)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:12:10 PM EST

and the WSJ op-ed wanted people to hear about it, they'd hear about it..
So much for Blessed are the Peacemakers. Speaking of ships that have sailed..

Ignoring him... (none / 0) (#7)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:59:05 PM EST

is the best option, to be sure...but that doesn't sell papers or improve ratings.

I'm guilty too, even discussing the buffoon. It's hard work not focusing on the train wreck that is hateful extremism...they get all the ink on all sides...one of our fundamental flaws I guess.


I think that ship has sailed (none / 0) (#8)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:01:21 PM EST

It's too late to ignore him, everyone already knows about it.

Now is the time to be louder, so the rest of the world hear's our voices too.


Well said... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:07:36 PM EST

In a way it is better to have it out out in the open...if they throw the korans in the fire in hiding, it can't be challenged.

The lemonade out of this lemon is a chance to shine a light on our better ideas...lets just hope the media doesn't ignore the light.


: Someone dressed as the J-Man (none / 0) (#23)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:18:27 PM EST

burning Bibles with a big sign that says "the letter killeth, but the spirit revealeth"..
And, of course, again, the very-much-out-of-style Blessed are the Peacemakers..
Fire with fire. And in a language the folks can understand.

absolutely (none / 0) (#20)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:13:33 PM EST

The Rev. Jones is probably eligible (5.00 / 3) (#10)
by oculus on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:03:27 PM EST

for rendition, torture, and indefinite detention. Isn't he as involved in nurturing terrorism as the guy in the Philippines rasing funds for Islamic charity? "Enemy combatant"--that's it. .

Surprised O hasn't planned a beer summit (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:06:02 PM EST

to solve this mighty issue.

That sounds like a pretty good way (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by andgarden on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:06:28 PM EST

to set the stage for cutting the good Rev. Jones a substantial check from the U.S. Treasury.

I am frankly tired of all things tolerence (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by Slado on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:19:58 PM EST

Call me intolerant but why are we even worried about this?

Why does this garner even a moments care from our collective conciousness?

Because many in Islam will beceom so enraged? Is that our fault or theirs?

I frankly hope he does it. So that Muslims world wide will learn that in America a religion must take itself less seriously and be open to criticism if not outright slander.

I seem to remember all sorts of things being done to Christian versions of revrence in the name of art and nobody was worried about backlash. They where simply offended or not. Simple as that.

I'm frankly tired of the one way street of telorence that so many feel is necesary towards Islam. They can believe whatever they want if they can't handle the occasional nutjob that says more about them then it does us.

Why is the president even commenting on this? What good does he hope it will acomplish? Once again he has more belief in the power of his voice then anyone else does.

It's a book with Arabic words in it. To the guy burning it it doesn't mean anything so those who believe in it should shut up and worry about what they are doing in their own house, not what a crazy nut job in Florida is doing in his.

I am the least PC person you know (none / 0) (#68)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:27:49 PM EST

it is not about that. it is about the fact that we could be at a crossroads with the muslim world.

military and political leaders speaking out against this are doing it because they think it could put our people in uniform at more risk. for what.

to make a point about free speech in a country where it is an article of faith?


I'm sorry but you don't get to choose (none / 0) (#96)
by Slado on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 12:23:49 PM EST

Who's first ammendment rights are more important then anothers.

How many stringed up versions of Clinton, Bush, Obama and American flags are burned on a monthly basis in the Muslim world? Too many to count.

Do you really think that it's our fault that burning a book of words sets an entire culture into a panic? Once again I ask whose fault is this? Our or theirs?

Yes the reality is a group of people are sitting in front of their TV screens waiting for an excuse to incite a riot but that pent up anxiety is only waiting for a match. A book, a cartoon or a book burning will set them off. It's not a matter of what but when and I'm not going to waste another minute worrying about it.

The troops will be killed and blown up because they are in the Middle East. Not because a book of Arabic words is burned in Gainesville.


: "Ours or theirs?" (none / 0) (#99)
by jondee on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 12:40:33 PM EST

Again Slado, do you think it's possible that the populace here might be a tad more hyper-sensitive than they presently are about certain things if this country had been shock-and-awed, invaded and dotted with the semi-permanent military bases of a much more powerful nation?
Under the present historical circumstances, when everything that's occurred in the last few decades is taken into account, I think you're being more than a tad cavalier about the "over-sensitivity" of Muslims around the world. But, putting yourself in the other person's shoes has never been the strong suit of you folks..

I'm frankly tired (none / 0) (#90)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:58:23 PM EST

of the arrogance-on-wheels-and-with-bells-on that assumes exceptional American "tolerance" would STILL reign supreme, even if we were forced to endure military occupations, foreign nation's bases on our soil and, or, the constant threat of invasion, the way so many Islamic nations do. Personally, I seriously doubt it.

As it is, we endured one major attack and half the citizenry's brains and sanity immediately flew out the window: I-raq done attacked us; yer with us or against us and it's a sure sign the Raptures at hand..

As for your "I hope he does it" Slado, that doesn't surprise me in the least..I'm sure Bill Kristol and Michelle Malkin were hoping he would do it as well..


: Frankly I think (none / 0) (#91)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:04:09 PM EST

if we were invaded and occupied, half the wingnuts would revert to acting like those flesh eaters in the movie The Road..in a white christian, uber-patriotic kinda way.

: You need to refocus your digust (none / 0) (#97)
by Slado on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 12:29:13 PM EST

This is not a question of poverty or social injustice.
This is a question of a group of people who adhere to a religion that causes much pain in their societies. Be it forced upon them or not.
I'm tired of looking the other way. You seem to think the root cause of their plight is our policies.
Last time I checked the ideology and the theocracy that causes much of the injustice in their region was created and applied hundreds of years before white men lived in this country.
We can forgive their collective society by blaming ourselves or we can come to the realization that nothing we do will matter in that part of the world good or bad until they choose to follow a different set of priciples.
Namely the secular ones in which we govern ourselves.

Whew....Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:52:54 PM EST

Comes right out swinging for the preventive detention fences :)

Sure, sounds like a super duper idea (none / 0) (#3)
by BTAL on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:52:36 PM EST

Then, just to make sure it all goes to plan, Jeppesen can be contracted to fly him somewhere else for said detention - right?

: Maybe they should fly him to Gitmo (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:03:52 PM EST

They could kidnap him to take him on a tour of Gitmo -- no charges necessary for extraordinary rendition -- and fly him home on the 12th? [s/snark]

: maybe just send him (none / 0) (#5)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 01:57:35 PM EST

to a seminar on fundamentalism-induced mental degeneration.

I'm not sure Terry Jones has any (none / 0) (#16)
by Anne on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:09:44 PM EST

"better angels;" he'd probably tell you that it was those angels who told him he needed to have the Quran-burning.

While he has the right to do it, the better angels of our nature should not be feeding his obvious need for attention.

There's way too much crazy in the air these days; it's a little worrisome.

good news (none / 0) (#19)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:12:30 PM EST

Interpol Issues Global Terror Alert If Koran Burning Happens

State Dept Issues Global Travel Warning Over Koran Burning

and some actual good news

Late update: TPMmuckraker confirms that the FBI sent "several" agents to the Dove World Outreach Center today. A spokesman would not comment on the nature of their meeting.

: I don't see what is good about... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:24:37 PM EST

the FBI harassing the guy...next time it might be somebody saying something controversially good.

Hell, why not go for the whole enchilada (none / 0) (#21)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:17:30 PM EST

(so to speak), TL?

I mean, why not just sweep this clown and all his friends up off the street and render him to Camp Greyhound or some similar analog, leave him there until you're tired of it and if anyone barks declare it all a state secret. Lord knows the Eleventh Circuit (which helped keep proof of Jose Padilla's torture out of his trial) will surely fall in line to support the Executive in this sensitive matter affecting international relations and the Wah on Terrah.

</sarcasm>

Let me be clear on this: I think this knucklehead "pastor" is well within his rights to spout whatever anti-Christian nonsense he wants. I've heard some of his sh8t on TV and he surely does not fall in with the Biblical injunction to turn the other cheek*. Not by any measure.

But this kind of chicanery does not get on the TV without the active complicity of the media, particularly the editors and directors and "suits" upstairs. (It's always useful to remember that everything on your devil box has to have passed muster with those editors and directors and suits, and the presenters usually err on the side of not offending them.) Yes, it makes "good TV", insofar as idiots labelled "Good" and "Evil" yelling at each other always makes "good TV" - TV which will draw and hold eyeballs. But there are any number of other stories which will equally support "good TV".

But, no, we have spent an entire summer getting pounded with one flavor of anti-Muslim bigotry after another. "Islam is not a religion, so they hae no religious freedom." "Ground Zero is sacred ground and allowing them to build a mosque there would defile it by rewarding the attackers." You name the screed and the REpublicans (and wussy Democrats) have spouted it. Some of the most vile religious bigotry this side of Nuremburg, 1935 has been put out over the American airwaves this summer.

And, I have to tell you, if you were to take some of the discussions and speeches and reportage from the German media of the mid-30s, switch out the references to Jews and put references to Muslims in their place, you would find it would fit right in with the spew on Fox and from Congresscritters' mouths which we've been treated to this summer.

Said another way, if people were saying about Jews the things being said on Fox and/or by Republicans about Muslims, all hell would have broken loose back about June, when Palin and Gingrich first started twitting about hte Muslim Community Center in Manhattan. And this all would have stopped within a couple days, among denunciations of the perpetrators as Nazis and long-term damage to their careers, reputations and livelihoods.

This Florida knucklehead is not an aberration - he is merely a high point - a tip of the iceberg, so to speak - emerging in our media consciousness because of the culture of anti-Muslim hate being aggressively cultivated by the Republican party. Not that the Republicans will admit to it - they are busy slinking away and denying responsibility at every turn. Fostering hate in this manner will, if allowed to go unchecked, further the great objective of the Republicans: eternal war and eternal profits from war.

This pastor thinks he's somebody, but he's too stupid to know he's a prop, too stupid to know he's spouting someone else's propaganda, too stupid to know this propaganda was designed to elicit a certain response, and too stupid to know he'll be tossed aside like a used tissue come next week. If he gets criminally charged, there will be no one there to help him and he'll stand around like a sheep wondering what the hell happened.

-
Unless you decide to count his rhetorically waving his butt cheeks in everyones' faces as fulfilling Scripture's prescription, in which he wins the grand prize. But I kinda doubt it. Face it - he's no Christian.

he's no Christian? (none / 0) (#24)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:20:09 PM EST

well, he is speaking for an alarmingly large segment of the population who SEE themselves (and virtually no one else) as christians.
I can tell you that.


revealed religion (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:32:05 PM EST

in-breeding, too much sun and bad whiskey don't mix..


Nope. (5.00 / 0) (#32)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:37:23 PM EST

He's basically an authoritarian cultist who uses the personage of Jesus (and surely not his commie teachings - this Pastor's theological development never made it past Leviticus, let alone to the New Testament) as the central figure in his idolatry.

In sum, he's no different than the guys in the past who worshipped bulls, or the sun, or the moon or trees. It's just that his particular idol is called Jesus.

Sadly, most of the self-named "Christians" - at least the ones who manage to find their way into the public consciousness - wind up falling into idolatry of the person Jesus, and pay no attention to (or even reject) most or all of his teachings (particularly the ones about forgiveness and "love thy enemy").

This is not to say that there are not a lot of people out there who consider or describe themselves as Christians or Evangelicals or whatever but still sincerely do adhere to and try to live the teachings of the New Testament. They unfortunately get lumped in with knuckleheaded idolators like this guy (at best) or (worse) used by these idolators for the idolators' temporal, political/financial goals. Remember that school board in Pennsylvania that tried to force "intelligent design" and lost, badly? There were a lot of well-meaning, sincere people who really try to live the message of the New Testament who got dragged along by a few of the Christianist/Jesus-cult idolators.


I do not disagree (none / 0) (#34)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:41:09 PM EST

with a single word of that. I am simply saying, as a person who grew up with these people, he is far from alone. but in fact speaks for a frighteningly large number of people who certainly consider THEMSELVES christians. and would probably shoot you if you told them they were not.


: Which is why I don't tell them (none / 0) (#39)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:46:47 PM EST

Would that they spent an ounce of their right-wing fervor on questions like "what does it mean to 'love my neighbor'?", "who is this neighbor I should love?", "what does it mean to 'turn the other cheek'?", "why do I have to turn the other cheek?"
Any one of those four - I could come up with a dozen if I spent 5 minutes on this - honestly adressed would yield them far more benefit than years of the right-wing anger they indulge in.
But, hey, I'm just a f*g retard, so what do I know.

for example (none / 0) (#36)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:42:29 PM EST

why do you think it took republicans so long to speak out against this?

and some, many in fact, still have not.


speaking out and then (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:49:57 PM EST

always immediately evoking the Cordoba Center in the very next sentence -- in a social liberal kinda way..

Odds are if Petreaus hadn't said anything, 2/3 of the always-on-the-same-script Rethugs STILL would be saying very little.


yeah (none / 0) (#45)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:52:50 PM EST

the convenient pivot to the Corboba Center by people like Boner is, well, convenient. isnt it?


: once again (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:02:15 PM EST

Jon Stewart was all over this. One group wants to burn the Quran, the other wants to read it. So you know, they're totally on the same level.
I feel like he's shouting into a vacuum but what else is new.

I wish just once (none / 0) (#52)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:03:32 PM EST

when someone invokes the Cordoba Center the interviewer of questioner or whoever would say, so, you consider an act that could possibly put our troops and even traveling americans in danger equal to an act that might pi$$ off some self righteous intolerant a-holes stateside? is that what you are saying?
or are you saying the a-holes may also be dangerous?


Because they're behind it (none / 0) (#40)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:48:37 PM EST

and they both needed to give it a couple days so their being mixed up in cultivating it would sink into plausibly deniable forgetfulness beneath a couple news cycles and because they support it.


Right. And all the Muslims that have not (none / 0) (#49)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:01:57 PM EST

spoken out against the 9/11 attacks were behind the attacks. And all the Germans who do not announce their love of Jews are Holocaust supporters. Etc.


just the (none / 0) (#53)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:05:08 PM EST

Cordoba center Muslims.


: Yep, they're the worst of the worst. (none / 0) (#55)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:08:48 PM EST

Naturally.

No, he's really not (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by jbindc on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:43:03 PM EST

He's speaking for himself and the members of his church who plan to join him. Rigious leaders of every stripe (including Evangelicals) have tried to talk him down and publicly stated that this is a disgrace.

Jones also told Sky News he might reconsider if Obama talked to him personally.

All about publicity.


: Beer summit. I knew that was his angle. (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:02:45 PM EST

the radical right should not be (none / 0) (#28)
by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:31:25 PM EST

imbued with legitimacy by using the label "Christian." That's why I never call them the Christian right. They are the radical right.


: I do not disagree (none / 0) (#31)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:35:15 PM EST

just sayin. he is the point of the spear.

: Please note, I did not call him Christian (none / 0) (#42)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:50:50 PM EST

I called him - once - anti-Christian. Which, as my later comment on the idolatrous nature of his cult discussed, is pretty accurate.
I agree wholeheartedly with not giving him the dignity of the description "Christian". He ain't that.

Must disagree Don... (none / 0) (#22)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:17:51 PM EST

where or what is the "crowded theater"? The Church of Hate's property? Afghanistan? Planet Earth?

If this is yelling fire in a crowded theater, no controversial speech is safe.

: Agreed (none / 0) (#98)
by Slado on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 12:33:19 PM EST

I find flag burnign offensive, Peeing on a statue of the Mother Mary offensive, pornographic movies of Jesus offensive, South Park fun making of Jesus offensive, on and on and on.
However no indecency or criticism of my chosen God would ever lead me to blow myself up or burn down the neighborhood in which I live.
I refuse to take part in the selective freedom of speech in order to placate a society that is completely intollerent of my own.

he has hinted he might not do it (none / 0) (#33)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:38:55 PM EST

if he is contacted by the president.

Obama should do it. IMO.

the people who think he is Muslim will think that no matter what he does.

Why not? (none / 0) (#44)
by kdog on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:52:12 PM EST

Reach out Obama...sarc joked about a beer summit but it might not be a bad idea.

It may be futile, it's almost definitely futile...but it would still be noble to attempt to reson with this man, as opposed to sicking the FBI on him....which risks making him a martyr for haters.


: WH hookah confab. Now that would (5.00 / 1) (#85)
by oculus on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:26:07 PM EST

be a photo op.

: really (none / 0) (#47)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:54:20 PM EST

even if the guy goes ahead, which I happen to think he would, at least he tried.

Arresting Him Will Not Help (none / 0) (#43)
by squeaky on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:51:22 PM EST

He is in it for the $$$ and power fame brings. He was ousted from his Church in Germany for financial improprieties, among other things. Clearly he is scamming for the publicity that results in $$$$$.

Arresting him, and releasing him, will just inspire him to schedule more and more outrageous events. Perhaps, if he gets a conviction and the Son of Sam law gets invoked he will move to another country... lol

The only way to stop him would be to send him to gitmo for indefinite detention. That is an interesting proposition, as the radical right may soon learn that their tactics can come to bite them in the a$$...

When the right learns that fascism can be used against them, they may join the left to get rid of the Patriot act, and the AUMF.

What's nauseating to me (none / 0) (#48)
by jondee on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:57:01 PM EST

is that the Kristols, Malkins, Gellers et al KNOW Obama isn't a Muslim, but they just cant contain that time-honored, rats-backed-into-a-corner, dirty tricks instinct..

And then they evoke Jesus in the very next breath..
Which becomes just another dirt ball strategy in their hands..

tax evasion (none / 0) (#59)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:11:46 PM EST

or something. if you read about the guy I am pretty sure they could find something.

he has a business that imports expensive furniture from europe that is run by his disciples who get not money and live in hovels he provides.

they could find something.

One of the "approved" ways to dispose (none / 0) (#61)
by oculus on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:18:39 PM EST

a Bible is by burning it. Just sayin'. link

Military burns unsolicited Bibles (none / 0) (#66)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:25:06 PM EST

sent to Afghanistan


man (none / 0) (#73)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:57:44 PM EST

this reminds me of a story/confession I should make.

When I was a teenager I once burned part of a bible. Not for any religious protest, or intent to offend. Just out of a need for very thin paper to burn. It was the only convenient object on hand.

If there is a Christian god, I'm totally going to hell for that.


: I thought that was (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:00:14 PM EST

why they PUT them in hotel rooms?

Copy Cat Burning (none / 0) (#70)
by squeaky on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:33:08 PM EST

Inspired By Florida Hate Pastor, Tennessee Minister Also Plans To Burn Qurans On 9/11
While everyone from President Obama to Fox News host Glenn Beck has strongly condemned a radical Florida church's plan to burn Qurans on September 11th, the idea has inspired at least one copy cat on the fringe Cristian-right. Rev. Bob Old of Springfield, TN told the The Tennessean that Rev. Terry Jones' hateful scheme to burn Qurans has inspired him to the same, because in his view, there should be no Muslims in America:

Which really speaks to what you (none / 0) (#71)
by Anne on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:44:28 PM EST

said earlier - that this is so much more about fame and money than it is about principle (haven't figured out what principle Jones could possibly be standing up for, since I'm pretty sure the whole free-speech thing is just an excuse to act out).

Just what we need: the "inspiration" of Terry Jones and the constant, 24/7, full-bore, klieg-lights blazing coverage of a couple men with delusions of grandeur and a few mentally suspect "followers."

Giving it any semblance of credibility may be more insane than the Quran-burning itself, and it wouldn't surprise me if this inspires a new push to plaster Jesus on and in every public building, square and space across the land.

It's just crazy.


: perhaps we disagree on the (none / 0) (#72)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:52:55 PM EST

definition of "few"

The whole worship time resembled more an aerobics class or a night club (it was Friday evening after all) and was very energetic. Three hundred people bouncing up and down are quite something to behold. In addition, there were a female dance group in white costumes and 15 people waving national flags performing in front of the stage. A gentleman behind me was loudly singing in tongues.

: Who is reporting it? (none / 0) (#76)
by me only on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:00:24 PM EST

Notice this additional story is not being reported by Fox News. Instead it is the lazy left. If you read the article you'll see that the Westboro church is upset because when they burned the Quran in 2008 it was ignored.
Make you wonder what the media was thinking this time...

Fox couldn't wait to fan flames (none / 0) (#94)
by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:56:05 PM EST

and now really bad crap starts happening, and now Glenn Beck condemns it? Really? That's rich!


What he Terry needs to burn (none / 0) (#74)
by vicndabx on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:59:31 PM EST

is some of that mustache off.

He reminds of this guy. Or maybe this guy.

/s
/nt

: Good lord (none / 0) (#77)
by vicndabx on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:05:53 PM EST

d@mn shame when poor typing ruins a perfectly sarcastic post.

: Joshua just saw him on the tube (none / 0) (#93)
by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:53:52 PM EST

and he says, "Wow, what a horrible mustache. Can't he do something with it?"

cancelled (none / 0) (#78)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:16:02 PM EST

Fla. minister cancels burning of Qurans on 9/11

but this is odd (none / 0) (#79)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:16:59 PM EST

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

true?


NPR reports that (none / 0) (#84)
by scribe on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:24:22 PM EST

(a) the FBI was at Pastor Florida's place today - "several carloads of them; ... more than would be needed if it was just a security" issue relative to the event;
(b) Pastor Florida met with a local imam for a while;
(c) Pastor Florida is going to NYC to meet with the Cordoba Center folks - says the local imam;
(d) Pastor Florida - and no one else - is saying the NYC folks have agreed to move their center in return for his not burning the Koran.

The last seems quite like extortion, BTW: "Buy this magazine or we'll kill this cat" kind of thing.


also (none / 0) (#86)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:26:24 PM EST

the imam has been all over the news lately talking about how he's not moving it.

So I doubt that will happen.


: I was wondering (none / 0) (#87)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:28:31 PM EST

if it was BS. so later he could say we are doing it anyway.

it was (none / 0) (#88)
by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:30:04 PM EST

a dog. but I get it.


Aaaaaaaand (none / 0) (#81)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:17:17 PM EST

just like that, this whole thing is over.

Just kidding guys! Not burning Qurans anymore.

He got what he wanted (none / 0) (#82)
by jbindc on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:22:21 PM EST

: So did I (none / 0) (#83)
by CST on Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:23:55 PM EST

Slippery slope (none / 0) (#95)
by lentinel on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 02:37:08 AM EST

If Obama believes Jones' acts will serve as a recruiting tool for al Qaida, why doesn't he have him charged with conspiring or attempting to to provide material support to terrorists?

Great.

What's next?

Any serious questioning of the government's war in Afghanistan, it's threats to Iran -- anything anywhere - can be labeled as seditious and criminal?

What about a progressive candidate campaigning aggressively against the wars - detailing the corruption of the government in Afghanistan. Arrest him or her for endangering the troops?

We have heard in the past that anti-war demonstrations "provide aid and comfort to the enemy". What a crock.

Predator drones killing civilians - now THAT is a recruiting tool for Al Qaeda or any nationalist. In fact one could argue convincingly that it is the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan themselves that continue to put us all in danger by engendering hatred towards us. And this has been done by American leaders boasting of their Christian beliefs! Gad!

Are we in store for HUAC again? Joe McCarthy? Putting people in the can for burning the flag?

What a revolving door going no place.

to answer your question jeralyn, (none / 0) (#100)
by cpinva on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 04:12:59 PM EST

because even the densest of judges would see it for what it was, a purely political act. and they'd be correct. talk about throwing red meat to the rightwingnutconspiracy masses!

then, there'd be the civil rights lawsuit filed against the federal government.

nope, better to just let this guy hang himself.