Acknowledging Progressive Failure On The Health Bills

Via FDL, in this segment on Countdown, Markos recognizes that progressives failed in the health bill negotiations. In a short segment, it is too much to ask that he explain how he thinks the failure occurred, but an important first step is recognizing you have a problem.

Speaking for me only

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    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:42:55 AM EST
    it hasn't passed yet has it? They can still walk away but they won't will they? They're going to whine about how they lost but then vote for it? Well, they can just continue to raise the white flag and while Obama guts medicare next I guess. After all it's not about whether the people in this country get good legislation but all about Obama's feelings. Whatever.

    Well, the activists were certainly (none / 0) (#1)
    by masslib on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:19:58 AM EST
    no help, not many of the popular opinion makers, the HCAN types, and the unions at least.  They conceded too much at the gate.

    They all caved. It is that simple. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Buckeye on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:24:07 AM EST
    I will give Kucinich credit, he was the last dog to die.  But...he still caved.

    Kucinich's Capitulation (none / 0) (#19)
    by norris morris on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 11:10:27 PM EST
    A very cynical collapse of real values and convictions. Kucinich's stated convictions about HVR have no merit.

    It's easy to talk...it's harder to walk.


    Vote pushed back (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:28:31 AM EST
    No CBO score - vote unlikely Saturday, possibly Sunday is if gets scored today.  So, now does Obama push back his trip?

    Score will be out today (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:33:25 AM EST
    HuffPo says 130 billion deficit reduction, $940 billion cost, 32 million get insurance. Generally a good report.

    Do you know the breakdown of (none / 0) (#6)
    by observed on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:38:59 AM EST
    the newly insured? How many of those are people mandated to buy insurance, and how many are covered by other provisions.

    Nope (none / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:43:09 AM EST
    The "progressive" victory in this (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by observed on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:46:19 AM EST
    bill is supposed to be that 30 million new people are insured. If those are mostly people mandated to buy insuranced, then I think it's more relevant to know how many people who want insuranced today but can't get it, will be covered under the bill..
    NOt to mention that the mandated buys will probably be for very crappy coverage.

    Score is out (none / 0) (#10)
    by star on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:47:33 AM EST
    How relevent is this score? I am not much of a political junkie ..but have been told by many around me that CBO works with what is given to them in terms of assumptions and nothing BUT a good report to dems liking will be released..
    AM tired of all the drama , and nothing much to show for it in terms of true dem agenda. It all seems to be such a sham.. Would like to know your opinion BTD  on CBO and its credibility. Being a registerd dem in Florida, I get a lot of grief from friends and colleuges :(

    CBO is pretty weak (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:55:04 AM EST
    but its political importance is huge.

    You're being given (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 10:26:06 AM EST
    a classic and pervasive GOP talking point about CBO.  When they like the CBO results, then it's gospel.  When they don't like them, then it's untrustworthy because "they can only work with what they're given" and of course the Dems. give them funny business.

    The people around you are listening to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh et al.


    There's this too (none / 0) (#12)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:56:20 AM EST
    The bill is more expensive than the healthcare measures passed by both the House and the Senate last year, though the CBO said that the current bill would make larger reductions in the deficit

    We'll see.

    Vote could take place Sunday as 72 hours clock has started.


    That's wrong I tihink (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 09:08:16 AM EST
    The House bill was $956 billion iirc.

    I read that the excise tax will (none / 0) (#4)
    by observed on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 08:30:40 AM EST
    have to be raised for the bill to meet Obama's self-imposed budget guidelines.
    That's why the CBO score is not out.

    I'll bet they agree to vote on Saturday evening (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 09:04:11 AM EST
    Though I expect some headless chickens to scream 72 hrs! for a while.

    They will vote (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 10:29:41 AM EST
    when Nancy Pelosi decides it's the right time for them to vote.  She's completely in charge of this right now.  Obama will do what she tells him to do about taking his trip or postponing it again.  If it's between 72 hours and Obama's trip, they'll do the 72 hours.  If it's between 72 hours and risking losing a waverer, they'll skip the 72 hours.

    Nope (none / 0) (#17)
    by BTAL on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 12:57:33 PM EST
    The trip has now been moved to June.

    Pelosi still doesn't have the votes and the PRELIMINARY CBO score isn't swaying alot of votes.

    In fact, the Dems were over-reaching a bit with those CBO projections:

    UPDATE: The CBO says its estimates are preliminary. It estimates the bill will reduce the deficit by {strikeout}$118{/strikeout} $138 billion over the next decade, but cautions that it has not yet analyzed all the provisions. So far, it has analyzed $82 billion worth of savings.

    Nope? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 01:53:38 PM EST
    That's what I said, Nancy decides when to take the vote and whether she needs Obama to hang around.  She's not scheduling the vote until Sunday earliest, and Obama's now basically canceled his trip altogether.

    And excuse me, but you have no idea whether the CBO report has or hasn't swayed any votes because the ones in question aren't talking and are essentially invisible to you.

    OF COURSE it's not going to sway anybody who's already made up his/her mind.

    She's got a handful of reluctant "If you really need me" votes in her pocket, and she's working now on another handful who are still undecided or leaning one way or the other to see how many of them she can win over.  The CBO will certainly help.

    She has enough votes already, IMHO, with the "If you really need me" ones, but she's working to see if she can get another vote or two so that some of those can be let off the hook.  You can't call on those "if you really need me" folks unless you really can't get the votes anywhere else, so she had to try and be able to show them she tried everything she could.