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Justice Ginsberg on Judicial Diversity

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, asked whether criticisms of Judge Sonia Sotomayor's intelligence and attitude are gender-based, gave this spot-on answer:

I can’t say that it was just that she was a woman. There are some people in Congress who would criticize severely anyone President Obama nominated. They’ll seize on any handle. One is that she’s a woman, another is that she made the remark about Latina women. [In 2001 Sotomayor said: “I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.”] And I thought it was ridiculous for them to make a big deal out of that. Think of how many times you’ve said something that you didn’t get out quite right, and you would edit your statement if you could. I’m sure she meant no more than what I mean when I say: Yes, women bring a different life experience to the table. All of our differences make the conference better. That I’m a woman, that’s part of it, that I’m Jewish, that’s part of it, that I grew up in Brooklyn, N.Y., and I went to summer camp in the Adirondacks, all these things are part of me.

The importance of judicial diversity is exactly the point conservatives refuse to acknowledge when they contend that only conservative judges (who not coincidentally are overwhelmingly white males) "follow the law." [more ...]

Republicans contend that conservative judges follow the law while liberal activist judges make the law. As TalkLeft posts have often discussed, that argument is absurd. Interpreting ambiguous laws and applying statutes and constitutional provisions to new fact situations is a judicial responsibility. Each time an appellate court addresses a legal question that has not been squarely answered by binding precedent or legislation, it is "making law."

Republican complaints about judicial activism foster the myth that there is only one "correct" answer to an unsettled legal question. The first year of law school disabuses surviving students of the misguided notion that difficult questions of law have a single answer. The prevalence of dissenting opinions is proof that there are often two or more reasonable resolutions of legal issues. The "best" answer depends upon how the judge balances competing values. For instance, judges who give greater weight to public safety than civil liberties are more likely to favor the interests of law enforcement than those of criminal defendants, while judges who value individual rights more than deference to executive power are less likely to be swayed by a prosecutor's arguments.

A judge's background and experience necessarily shapes that judge's view of the law. As Justice Ginsberg noted, female judges have a keener appreciation of sex discrimination and sexual harassment than male judges. Their experiences give them first-hand knowledge of the problems that remedial civil rights legislation attempts to address. Appellate judges who are willing to listen and learn from each other gain a deeper appreciation of the law's function and impact when colleagues from from different backgrounds bring their "different life experience[s] to the table."

Only a diverse judiciary can reflect the nation's diversity. The law belongs to everyone, not just conservatives who happen to be white and male. In the words of Justice Ginsberg:

I always thought that there was nothing an antifeminist would want more than to have women only in women’s organizations, in their own little corner empathizing with each other and not touching a man’s world. If you’re going to change things, you have to be with the people who hold the levers.

Judge Sotomayor, like Justice Ginsberg, belongs "with the people who hold the levers."

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  • Display: Sort:
    Check out what she says about the Ricci case (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by BernieO on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 07:15:38 AM EST
    From what I saw on the Colbert Report the test was about things like spelling - a necessary skill for fireman, apparently. Ginsberg points out the it is unions who usually wanted that kind of test because they wanted to protect their white members from competition from minorities.

    It frustrates me that liberals rarely give enough details for people to understand issues like this. To most people, a surface description of the test does sound like it was Ricci who was being discriminated against. I did not see anyone talking about whether the test addressed skills that were relevant to the job being sought.

    As for diversity, I have noticed that most men do not "get" sex discrimination until it happens to their daughters, something Ginsberg touches on when discussing Rehnquist. As for the assumption that thirteen year old boys would not have as big of a problem with being strip searched, I beg to differ. I remember my son and his friends complaining that the boys' bathroom stalls in their middle school did not have doors but the girls' did. All kids deserve to have their privacy respected.

    "whites want written tests" (2.00 / 0) (#28)
    by diogenes on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:43:32 PM EST
    Are you a racist or something, saying that blacks can't learn to spell as well as whites do?  These guys had plenty of time to study for this test.
    If you gave a civil service test on rap music, a guy like Ricci would still have studied his butt off and got the top score.  

    [ Parent ]
    Talk about a racially stereotyped comment. (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by TChris on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 03:00:28 AM EST
    Not all blacks listen to rap and hip hop, and many whites (including this older white male blogger) do.

    [ Parent ]
    Uncalled for all the way around, diogenes (none / 0) (#30)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:36:12 PM EST
    How in the world did you manage to dissect that comment to come to the conclusion you did?

    [ Parent ]
    You want diversity (2.00 / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:48:59 AM EST
    So Ginsberg grew up in Brooklyn... Sotomayor grew up in Brooklyn....

    How about we find one from Cut 'n Shoot, Texas instead...

    Good point (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Dark Avenger on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:53:36 AM EST
    We need someone to represent 19th Century views, perhaps Gov Perry would do.

    [ Parent ]
    My p[ersonal troll. shows up ;-) (2.00 / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:54:29 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sotomayor grew up in .... (none / 0) (#7)
    by nycstray on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:51:45 AM EST
    da Bronx.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:58:48 AM EST
    Dodger country vs. Yankee country...may as well be different planets:)

    [ Parent ]
    heh (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:46:16 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I still say Cut n' Shoot... (2.00 / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:56:44 AM EST
    Wow. One from Brooklyn and one from the Bronx and none from the rest of the country..

    BTW - How far apart are the two B's??

    [ Parent ]

    in mindset and attitude. (none / 0) (#24)
    by byteb on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:59:18 AM EST
    a million miles or so.   ;)

    [ Parent ]
    I agree between C&S and either B or B (2.00 / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 06:50:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Gov Perry was born in Paint Creek, TX (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dark Avenger on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:14:11 AM EST
    So he sounds like the kind of guy you're talking about, PPJ.  Can't trust any of them city slickers like Alioto, Scalia, or Roberts, after all.

    [ Parent ]
    I wonder if Bish even qualifies (none / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:17:42 AM EST
    I find it incredible that he has a Texas accent considering his background.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#19)
    by CST on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:17:58 AM EST
    Bush*

    [ Parent ]
    Bush isn't a 'native-born' Texan (none / 0) (#20)
    by Dark Avenger on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:30:05 AM EST
    but I can't see PPJ disqualifying him on the basis of having been born in New Haven, CN. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    None of that (2.00 / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 06:52:06 PM EST
    has anything to do with my point.. but nice reframe.

    [ Parent ]
    I offered up Gov Perry as a suitable (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dark Avenger on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:22:33 PM EST
    candidate, PPJ, unless you happen to think that a town like Paint Creek, TX, which doesn't even have its own zip code, is somehow snootier than Cut'n' Shoot, TX.

    I've relatives from Windom, Bonham, and McKinley TX., I'm sure any of them could do better than the first 500 members of the Heritage Foundation.  

    [ Parent ]

    You have relatives?? (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 07:25:01 PM EST
    Gosh.......surely not....

    [ Parent ]
    Heh. ;-) (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 09:06:31 PM EST
    And if I told you that one of my great-grandfathers went to the same elementary school as did Sam Rayburn, you'd be at the head of the line to send me to a psychiatric hospital, no doubt.

    Sam Rayburn (1882-1961), Texas legislator, congressman, and longtime speaker of the United States House of Representatives, was born near the Clinch River in Roane County, eastern Tennessee, on January 6, 1882, son of William Marion and Martha (Waller) Rayburn. In 1887 the family moved from Tennessee to a forty-acre cotton farm near Windom in Fannin County, Texas. Bonham, in the same county, eventually became Rayburn's permanent residence.

    Any other questions, comments, rotten tomatoes, etc?

    Link may be NSFW.


    [ Parent ]

    Gee, I am totally impressed (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 10:33:42 AM EST
    All I can say is I once flew on a flight with Jimmy Carter...

    Oh well, I now why you think yourself so intelligent...

    [ Parent ]

    That's not a difficult accomplishment (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 11:43:15 AM EST
    All I can say is I once flew on a flight with Jimmy Carter...

    At last, something we can both agree on.

    Did you bore him like you're boring me and possibly everyone here with that revelation?

    Oh well, I now why you think yourself so intelligent...

    Pioneer stock:  Don't leave home without it!

    BTW

    If you keep posting here, you'll be doing all the work for me, making my case. So my only question to you is: Do you charge by the hour or the snark?

    This is why, folks, whenever PPJ decides to engage me in a battle of wits, as he perhaps has already suspected, I only use half of mine, in order to level the playing field ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    Your abilties are (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 03:26:31 PM EST
    only exceeded by your ability to boast.

    [ Parent ]
    And that the fellow who has the monicker (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 04:31:22 PM EST
    PPJ for Poker Playing Jim because he feels it is an important accomplishment tells me I'm boastful when I merely relate my family history.

    Cool.

    [ Parent ]

    Also, PPJ and others should keep in mind (none / 0) (#52)
    by Dark Avenger on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 01:36:04 AM EST
    "When you point the finger at someone, you have at least three of them pointing back at you."

    [ Parent ]
    Diversity overrated (1.00 / 1) (#1)
    by pluege on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 05:18:46 AM EST
    a) Among 9 people you are not going to get close to true diversity.

    b) Only a diverse judiciary can reflect the nation's diversity. It can or can't. Thomas is the opposite of a advocate for blacks, going out of his way to denounce his culture, his, heritage, his blackness.

    c) it is wrong to assume a person can not empathize the conditions of anyone other than their own race and gender. Identity politics is generally a bad thing.

    I disagree. (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by TChris on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 06:23:14 AM EST
    There are 179 federal court of appeals judgeships, more or less.  It is possible to reflect the diverse backgrounds of Americans (more or less) with that many judgeships to fill.  Even if we focus just on the Supreme Court, it's fairly easy to achieve an accurate reflection of gender diversity by putting four or five women on the Court.

    I do not assume that white males cannot empathize with anyone other than white males.  It's difficult for a male to empathize with a victim of sex discrimination, however, if he's never talked to a woman who has experienced sex discrimination.  Diverse judges bring different experiences to the conference room, experiences that a group of white males will likely never have had.

    Clarence Thomas was the closest Republicans could come to a conservative white male without nominating and confirming a conservative white male.  Of course black judges will not all agree on every legal issue, just as female judges won't agree about every issue.  Justice O'Conner didn't always agree with Justice Ginsberg.  The point is not that a female Justice represents all women or that a black Justice represents all blacks.  The point is that we are not a nation of white male conservatives.  We are a diverse nation, and our people are entitled to see that diversity reflected in our judiciary.

    Diversity isn't a question of "identity politics."  It's a recognition that the judiciary is enriched by judges who come from different backgrounds.  If you're happy with a "white boy's club" judiciary, fine.  I'm not.

    [ Parent ]

    But about the topic, gender diversity (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Cream City on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:37:35 AM EST
    and with only two genders, it really ought not be so tough to achieve, wouldn't you say?  After more than 200 years, and hundreds of justices, only two women -- and especially considering that's the gender that has been the majority of Americans in all that time?

    After all, as Ginsburg said a couple of times in her best snark in this interview, Canada has been far better at this -- as have many other nations less, well, backward than our own.

    [ Parent ]

    Yea (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by CST on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:46:13 AM EST
    I think the question to me is "why not?"

    It's not like we have a lack of qualified, diverse candidates.  Why shouldn't the court be balanced?

    On a personal level I have never found diversity to be over-rated, rather I have found quite the opposite.  People are much more likely to be open-minded when surrounded by people who are different from them.

    Not to mention that when you have a group of people who all have similar backgrounds, I find people are much more likely to make fun of or disparage others since no one is watching.  It's kind of a "frat" mentality, whether that group is all male, all female, all white, or all black, etc...

    [ Parent ]

    Disagree on all three points. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 11:28:16 AM EST
    a) Among 9 slots, you can do a whole lot better on true diversity than 7 white males very, very easily in this country.

    b) Thomas is an outlier that people bring up to deny diversity arguments in a classic case of logical fallacy - arguing to generalizations.

    c) It is wrong to be blind to the centuries of evidence that demonstrate that people with privileged backgrounds do not often have the ability or the interest to understand the challenges faced by other groups of people. Women, blacks, gays have known this for a long time - it is why we need advocates like NOW, the NAACP, etc. Otherwise, we wouldn't need them because the white males would have actually fought for equality but they didn't, and often still don't.

    Finally, white male dominance is a form of identity politics as well. Choosing people of diverse ethnic and gender backgrounds for important positions is no more identity politics than choosing white males.

    [ Parent ]

    "diversity" (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by diogenes on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:50:40 PM EST
    If diversity means not having gone to college in elite Ivy league schools, the both Sotomayor and Obama are disqualified.
    Sotomayor went to a rigorous high school (Cardinal Spellman--too bad more poor kids don't have vouchers so that they can attend such schools), then Princeton and Yale Law School.  She lives in a fancy NY condo.  She is upper middle class all the way.
    Funny how no one clamors for "diversity" to be served by appointing an Asian judge to the Supreme Court.  

    Considering that (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by TChris on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 03:13:11 AM EST
    Asian Americans make up nearly 5 percent of the nation's population, they are seriously underrepresented on the federal bench.  Nobody is advocating a quota system, but there's no reason judgeships shouldn't reflect a rough approximation of the nation's demographics.

    As to your earlier point about the Bronx v. Brooklyn, district and court of appeals judges are chosen from within the district or circuit in which they will serve, so (except for the Supreme Court) the federal bench is geographically diverse.

    [ Parent ]

    You just did (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 07:25:51 PM EST
    Nobody is advocating a quota system, but there's no reason judgeships shouldn't reflect a rough approximation of the nation's demographics.

    [ Parent ]
    Funny how appointing a Latina judge (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 12:01:43 AM EST
    If diversity means not having gone to college in elite Ivy league schools, the both Sotomayor and Obama are disqualified.

    Nice try, but that's not a usual meaning of diversity, but if so, would that mean that Harriet Myers was qualified, based on the above definition.

    Sotomayor went to a rigorous high school (Cardinal Spellman--too bad more poor kids don't have vouchers so that they can attend such schools), then Princeton and Yale Law School.  She lives in a fancy NY condo.  She is upper middle class all the way.

    Yes, she is now, but she's the 21st Century equivalent of the old 19th Century Presidential candidate who was "born in a Log Cabin".

    You have something against people who worked hard and long to achieve something in their lives?

    Funny how no one clamors for "diversity" to be served by appointing an Asian judge to the Supreme Court.

    And if Sotomayor's name was Sato, no doubt you'd had written the same paragraph with Latino substituted for Asian.

    [ Parent ]

    White fireman to testify against Sotomayor . . . (none / 0) (#21)
    by Doc Rock on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:38:36 AM EST
    . . . to show Sotomayor favors minorities because of her decision against the so-called "New Haven 20." By the same type of tortured logic, one SHOULD argue, therefore, that the five Supreme Court Justices who voted to overturn the lower court's decision, should be deemed unworthy of the office as favoring whites!

    Conservatives didn't have a hissy fit with this (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Dark Avenger on Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:45:12 AM EST
    candidate:

    "When a case comes before me involving, let's say, someone who is an immigrant," said the nominee for the Supreme Court, "I can`t help but think of my own ancestors because it wasn`t that long ago when they were in that position.  I have to say to myself and I do say to myself, you know, this could be your grandfather.  This could be your grandmother."

    "When I get a case about discrimination," the nominee continued, "I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender and I do take that into account."

    Our fifth story on the COUNTDOWN: The smoking gun, the damming confirmation of reverse racism and reverse sexism from Judge Sonia Sotomayor?  No, those quotes were from then-Supreme Court nominee, conservative judge, Samuel Alito, during his confirmation hearing in January 2006 when he was answering a question from Republican Senator Coburn.

    So conservatives predicating their attempt at character-assassination of Judge Sotomayor on those exact points?  You can collect your backsides from the coat check after the show because they`ve been handed to you.




    [ Parent ]
    Your quote leaves out (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 10:53:27 AM EST
    the part where he says he has to apply the law...it comes right after he says "I can't help.." at around the 1:40 mark.

    I find your use of the incomplete quote to be dishonest. You need to give up on Olberman..

    His words, when you hear him say that he has to apply the law, clearly show that while he understands and has empathy, his job is to apply the law.

    The Left's current heroine didn't say that. And that is a vast difference.

    Here's a linl to KOS that provides a video of what he actually said.

    [ Parent ]

    Gersh, PPJ first of all, I was (none / 0) (#45)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 01:22:54 PM EST
    quoted Olbermann quoting Alito, so your quarrel is with Olbermann, not with me who quoted and relied upon him.

    Or perhaps not:

    I find your use of the incomplete quote to be dishonest. You need to give up on Olberman..

    Says the fellow who regularly runs silly Photoshopped pictures  of Obamie, as you like to call Obama, when you excoriate him for everything from Adultery to Zoonooses on your blog depending on your mood that day.

    "Pot calling kettle, pot calling kettle, come in, please."

    I realize that for you there is no proof sufficient that Sotomayor won't apply the law as Alito promised to because of her Wise Latina comment,(thus your batty "objection") but then I'm not worried enough to start adhering to your standards, because frankly I'm not interested in going so low I could limbo under a snake.

    Here's a complete quote about the Sotomayor nomination, and I think you'll agree that I'm not leaving out anything this time:

    Well, I watched Obamie this morning announcing that after deep reflections he had decided to nominate a racist for the SC.

    You know, this guy is always reflecting. I mean he has the exact angle of holding his head so that the reflection will let him reach that exact spot that's hard to shave... I mention this to be sure you don't think that I think you think that I think reflecting isn't serious business.... But based on the results, I sure wish he would shoot from the hip...

    And it will be interesting to see who in the Repub world has guts enough to condemn this person who obviously doesn't believe in the Constitution. I hope I'm wrong but after watching them roll over for the past three months I am not encouraged. Of course I am sure the Repub who voted for Obamie, aka Powell, will in the lead position telling us we should be more inclusive....

    Now that is an interesting word... "inclusive." I have a question, dear chums. If I was a Repub and had to change for you to come to my party... Why in the hell would I want you???

    And just in case the Repub Party leadership happens to read this... (Fat chance you say, but with Google you never know!)...... Reagan didn't win by being "inclusive." He won by offering a different vision, a different future, a different strategy...

    Grow a set dear Repub leaders.... You might even win with'em... And you damn sure will lose without them!

    The Left's current heroine didn't say that. And that is a vast difference.

    That's the kind of prose that won't make you anyone's hero, from a stylistic point of view.

    No, she only said this:

    I don't believe we should bend the Constitution under any circumstance. It says what it says. We should do honor to it.

        1997 Senate confirmation hearing, reported in Deborah Tedford, ""Senate Will Have To Confirm Court Choice", NPR (2009-05-26).
    ..........................

       I understand Justice Scalia's jurisprudence to begin with a proposition that we should all agree to -- namely, that judges should try to interpret the law correctly, and without personal or political bias.
              2000 speech, reported in Sotomayor's jackpot win, court rulings revealed, MSNBC (June 5, 2009).

        I find the speech in this case patently offensive, hateful, and insulting. The Court should not, however, gloss over three decades of jurisprudence and the centrality of First Amendment freedoms in our lives because it is confronted with speech it does not like.
              Pappas v. Giuliani, 290 F.3d 143 (2002) (dissenting).

    The Wiki on Pappas v Giuliani:

    Sotomayor argued that Supreme Court precedent required the court to consider not only the NYPD's mission and community relations but also that Pappas was neither a policymaker nor a cop on the beat. Moreover, Pappas's speech was anonymous, "occur[ring] away from the office on [his] own time." She expressed sympathy for the NYPD's "concerns about race relations in the community," which she described as "especially poignant," but at the same time emphasized that the NYPD had substantially contributed to the problem by disclosing the results of its investigation into the racist mailings to the public. In the end, she concluded, the NYPD's race relations concerns "are so removed from the effective functioning of the public employer that they cannot prevail over the free speech rights of the public employee."[3]

    Yep, she sure sounds like a racist to me.

    Have a nice day, PPJ, I have a feeling you're going to need it.

    [ Parent ]

    So your defense is.... (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 03:24:39 PM EST
    I was quoted Olbermann quoting Alito, so your quarrel is with Olbermann, not with me who quoted and relied upon him.

    Simpler.... You say you didn't know the gun was loaded....

    That is the same defense many on the Left have also used when called to task in their attacks on Palin's children.

    That you keep such company is of no surprise...

    And it was so sweet to use KOS to expose you and Olberman...

    [ Parent ]

    What Jeralyn said in another thread: (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 04:24:24 PM EST
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion and the ability to state it without fear of being attacked.

    Simpler.... You say you didn't know the gun was loaded...

    You seem to have a great familiarity with alibis, PPJ.  Is that from your own personal necessity?

    One would think that with your own experiences you'd be a bit more charitable in attitude than you demonstrate here.

    Can't you give me credit for learning from my mistake, and trying to do better afterwards?  I thought you actually had some management experience aside from intimidating subordinates, could that be another mistake on my part?

    That is the same defense many on the Left have also used when called to task in their attacks on Palin's children.

    Oh, you bring Palin's children in because you're sensing that the direction of this thread since I brought up the Sotomayor quotes isn't going in a direction to your liking, so, "BAAAAAAAAAAAD LEFTIES!" "BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD LEFTIES!"

    Cool.

    That you keep such company is of no surprise..

    Sure, I know all kinds of people:

    I really don't respond (1.00 / 1) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 10:20:55 AM EST
    well to your snarky comments, DA.

    So why do you bother??

    Do you have this burning desire to be dismissed with sarcasm and nonsesne??

    Do you like pain?

    And it was so sweet to use KOS to expose you and Olberman.

    Except for the fact that what Alito said:

    And so it's my job to apply the law. It's not my job to change the law or to bend the law to achieve any result.

    Is identical to what I quoted Sotomayor as being on the record as saying, and which I'll have to post again, so that it will be unmistakable to even the dullest lurker what is going on:

    I don't believe we should bend the Constitution under any circumstance. It says what it says. We should do honor to it.

            1997 Senate confirmation hearing, reported in Deborah Tedford, ""Senate Will Have To Confirm Court Choice", NPR (2009-05-26).
        ..........................

           I understand Justice Scalia's jurisprudence to begin with a proposition that we should all agree to -- namely, that judges should try to interpret the law correctly, and without personal or political bias.
                  2000 speech, reported in Sotomayor's jackpot win, court rulings revealed, MSNBC (June 5, 2009).

            I find the speech in this case patently offensive, hateful, and insulting. The Court should not, however, gloss over three decades of jurisprudence and the centrality of First Amendment freedoms in our lives because it is confronted with speech it does not like.
                  Pappas v. Giuliani, 290 F.3d 143 (2002) (dissenting).

    Now, remember, folks, this is the DISSENT, in which she held that a NY cop SHOULDN'T BE FIRED for racist speech that she didn't like because he didn't do it on the job, and he had a First Amendment right to express his opinion, regardless of what she or anyone else thinks about it.

    The defense rests.

    [ Parent ]

    heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 07:37:49 AM EST
    (I had written) Simpler.... You say you didn't know the gun was loaded...

    You seem to have a great familiarity with alibis, PPJ.  Is that from your own personal necessity?

    Facts be facts. You have been using a quote from Olberman that leaves out a very important statement. With the statement out it is then used to defend Sotomayor's "wise Latino woman" statement. Blame Olbermann, not the person who caught you.

    The question with Sotomayor is what she considers "bending the Constitution." In the New Haven ruling she broke it. In the NY case you offer she appears to agree with it but can't resist commenting on the content. I wonder what the cop actually said. In her "wise Latino woman" she exposes her beliefs. The question becomes, once the SC is no longer holding her in check, is it not reasonable to believe she will do what she believes is right??

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, there a lot of laughs in this thread (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Dark Avenger on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 09:44:59 AM EST
    thanks for each and everyone of them.

    Facts be facts

    Yes, you had a chance to learn that lesson a long time ago, didn't you?:

    PPJ - granted there is a lot of dissemination from the leftists here, but aren't you twisting the facts somewhat in terms of Byrd using the "n" word? I watched the interview (both parts) and he doesn't use it except in a rerun clip from the incident in 2001. Ergo, he only made that mistake once (publicly).

    You have been using a quote from Olberman that leaves out a very important statement

    Except I've demonstrated that Sotomayor has expressed virtually the same sentiment in her previous conformation hearings in 1997, in a statement agreeing with one of Scalia's in 2000, and in her dissent I quoted from above.

    Blame Olbermann, not the person who caught you.

    Except for the fact that you caught me at nothing, but then your pathetic
    attempt to find me guilty of something is par for the course.

    That you cannot recognize that your derriere has
    been handed to you on a silver platter, along with
    your overwrought, pitiable and futile attempt to lash back at me at that fetid swamp you call a blog, both demonstrate what happens when your psychopathology gets ahead of your common sense, not that I'm complaining, mind you.  ;-)

    In the New Haven ruling she broke it

    Actually, the other two judges on the panel agreed with her:

    Judge Sotomayor (who was subsequently nominated to the U.S. Supreme Court) vigorously questioned the attorneys in the case, and repeatedly discussed whether the city had a right to attempt to reformulate its test if it was afraid that the original test was discriminatory.[15] The three-judge panel then affirmed the district court's ruling in a summary order, without opinion, on February 15, 2008.[16]

    However, after a judge of the Second Circuit requested that the court hear the case en banc, the panel withdrew its summary order and on June 9, 2008 issued instead a unanimous per curiam opinion.[17] The panel's June 9, 2008 per curiam opinion was eight sentences long. It characterized the trial court's decision as "thorough, thoughtful and well-reasoned" while also lamenting that there were "no good alternatives" in the case. The panel expressed sympathy to the plaintiffs' situation, particularly Ricci's, but ultimately concluded that the Civil Service Board was acting to "fulfill its obligations under Title VII [of the Civil Rights Act]". The panel concluded by adopting the trial court's opinion in its entirety.[17]

    and the ruling was overturned not because it was unconstitional:

    The Supreme Court heard the case on April 22, 2009 and issued its decision on June 29, 2009. The Court held 5-4 that New Haven's decision to ignore the test results violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    You'll notice that the Constitution wasn't involved, just the interpretation of a subsection of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

    In the NY case you offer she appears to agree with it but can't resist commenting on the content.

    Actually, you'll find that true in a lot of cases of that sort, many times a judge will state that the speech or conduct in question isn't palatable to him/her, but that it doesn't reach the level where action is required by the legal system.  

    See Hustler Magazine vs. Falwell:

    To be sure, in other areas of the law, the specific intent to inflict emotional harm enjoys no protection. But with respect to speech concerning public figures, penalizing the intent to inflict emotional harm, without also requiring that the speech that inflicts that harm to be false, would subject political cartoonists and other satirists to large damage awards. "The appeal of the political cartoon or caricature is often based on exploitation of unfortunate physical traits or politically embarrassing events - an exploitation often calculated to injure the feelings of the subject of the portrayal. This was certainly true of the cartoons of Thomas Nast, who skewered Boss Tweed in the pages of Harper's Weekly. From a historical perspective, political discourse would have been considerably poorer without such cartoons.

    Even if Nast's cartoons were not particularly offensive, Falwell argued that the Hustler parody advertisement in this case was so "outrageous" as to take it outside the scope of First Amendment protection. But "outrageous" is an inherently subjective term, susceptible to the personal taste of the jury empaneled to decide a case. Such a standard "runs afoul of our longstanding refusal to allow damages to be awarded because the speech in question may have an adverse emotional impact on the audience". So long as the speech at issue is not "obscene" and thus not subject to First Amendment protection, it should be subject to the actual-malice standard when it concerns public figures

    I wonder what the cop actually said

    Too bad that you apparently don't know how to find things on the Wikipedia.

    Thomas Pappas was dismissed by the New York City Police Department for anonymously mailing from his home racially offensive political materials to political and other groups that had solicited him for donations. Pappas was fired for mailing out the material. The Appeals court held that the Police Department's action had not infringed on the plaintiff's Pappas's rights under the First Amendment.[1][2]

    Gasp!!!  She actually stood for someone's First Amendment rights??

    As the farmer who was settling up the year with his sharecropper and found he owed the sharecropper said, "That can't be right!!!"

    In her "wise Latino woman" she exposes her beliefs. The question becomes, once the SC is no longer holding her in check, is it not reasonable to believe she will do what she believes is right??

    Yes, it's not reasonable to believe that she will only do what she believes is right:

    Sotomayor subsequently clarified her remark via Senate Judiciary Committee chair Patrick Leahy, saying that while life experience shapes who one is, "ultimately and completely" a judge follows the law regardless of personal background.[180]

    Thanks for the entertainment PPJ, as they say, you're more fun than a barrel of monkeys. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    hehe (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 09:49:22 PM EST
    Look. You got caught out. Please continue to allow me to make the point that your quote from Olbermann was incomplete and inaccurate in a very important way by trying to defend a laughable position.

    You were wrong. Live with it.

    Thanks again.

    [ Parent ]

    ROTFLMFAO (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 12:24:15 AM EST
    Look. You got caught out.

    "But officer, I was only going with the flow of traffic............"

    Oh, that one doesn't work as well?

    You're a tough customer, PPJ.  Is your goal, as you once formulated in your unmistakable, characteristically feeble and inarticulate style, to shame me into silence ?

    Anyway, this is my reply to you:

    Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:59:09 AM PTD

    In the past I have noted time and again how you have nothing to say, just showing up late and making some trivial point. I call it ankle biting.

    Of course, unlike the writer of the above at that time, you seem bent on proving that I've messed up by committing a major omission that disproved my entire quote, yaddah-yadda-yadda, as though I had said Michaelangelo painted the Mona Lisa, or praised Monet for his incorporation of Cubism in his late works.

    SFW?

    The problem is that you forget, as you usually do,that your attacks aren't the kind of dialog that JM wants to promote with Talkleft.

    Please continue to allow me

    To make a fool out of yourself?  No Problem

    to make the point that your quote from Olbermann was incomplete and inaccurate in a very important way by trying to defend a laughable position.

    Using JLs online magazine to further your own goals and knowing that she gives you a pass to behave like a petulant adolescent, demonstrates that you are truly shameless, a  cantankerous, captious, churlish, querulous fellow whose lack of a healthy sense of humor is only overshadowed by a staggering deficit of good sense in defending a laughable position.

    You were wrong. Live with it.

    You're start sounding like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

    (the Black Knight continues to threaten Arthur despite getting both his arms and one of his legs cut off)

    Black Knight: Right, I'll do you for that!

    King Arthur: You'll what?

    Black Knight: Come here!

    King Arthur: What are you gonna do, bleed on me?

    Black Knight: I'm invincible!

    King Arthur: ...You're a loony.

    Thanks again.

    My pleasure, :-)

    [ Parent ]

    8 of 9 SCOTUS Ivy League (none / 0) (#35)
    by diogenes on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 05:31:34 PM EST
    Ruth Bader Ginsberg, attended Harvard Law but graduated from Columbia.
    But with the appointment of Yale Law grad Samuel Alito, and Sotomayor in line to replace Harvard Law grad David Souter, the score could fall back to Harvard 4 (Roberts, Kennedy, Scalia, Breyer), Yale 3 (Thomas, Alito, Sotomayor). Justice John Paul Stevens attended Northwestern Law School.
    If you pick'em by their "merits" (i.e. going to the "best" law school), then what do the "merits" have to do with color, sex, etc?

    That's a structural problem (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 10:14:15 PM EST
    that needs to be addressed, without naming names I've been aware of this and related problems when I had an application to an undergraduate institution rejected 32 years ago.

    OTOH if you're using it to say that Sotomayor should be deep-sixed as part of the solution, well, my mother raised no fools, so nice try.

    what do you think of Scalia's POV in his testimony I cited above?

    Good, bad, irrelevant, trolling?

    [ Parent ]

    heh (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 10:56:20 AM EST
    well, my mother raised no fools, so nice try.

    Present company excepted??

    [ Parent ]

    True, PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 11:28:05 AM EST
    she definitely didn't raise you :-)

    [ Parent ]
    And I am thankful (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 03:18:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm sure she'd be as well. ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 04:32:32 PM EST


    [ Parent ]