KS Abortion Clinic Doctor Killed At Church, Suspect Arrested

Bump and Update: Dr. Tiller's family released this statement through his defense lawyer, Dan Monnat. Planned Parenthood's statement is here. The arrested suspect is a white male. President Obama's statement:
"However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence."

Breaking....Kansas abortion clinic doctor George Tiller was shot and killed at his church this morning. [More...]

Tiller was shot just after 10 a.m. at Reformation Lutheran Church at 7601 E. 13th, where he was a member of the congregation. Witnesses and a police source confirmed Tiller was the victim. No information has been released about whether a suspect is in custody.

Tiller's clinic was vandalized two weeks ago.

UPDATE (BTD) - A suspect has been arrested.

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    God help us all!!!! (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:37:24 AM EST
    Just as horrifying as blowing up a clinic, murdering a man who is sensitive and humane about the suffering of women while he is in the middle of church services.

    Let's send you to god instead (1.00 / 0) (#82)
    by MrConservative on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:11:13 PM EST
    You can tell me if he's there later on.

    Work of the "real America," no doubt (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:38:21 AM EST

    Yes (none / 0) (#33)
    by jnicola on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:47:21 PM EST
    A doctor who performed abortions (5.00 / 9) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:39:59 AM EST
    Not an abortion doctor.

    the assault was just not on Tiller, but on a woman's right to choose.

    It is despicable.

    I can't believe I have tears in my eyes (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:42:24 AM EST
    but I do.......it's a woman thing.  Probably has something to do with the fact that I'm crazy because I menstruate.

    Didn't the person who murdered the dr (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:48:59 PM EST
    just prove two wrongs do not make a right? Must we add a third level of killing? NO to the death penalty!!

    People better not in this world (1.00 / 0) (#83)
    by MrConservative on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:11:51 PM EST
    People like you.

    BTW, this is domestic terrorism (5.00 / 9) (#5)
    by andgarden on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:46:01 AM EST

    I think I just revised my opinion (3.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Radiowalla on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:54:13 PM EST
    about closing Guantanamo.  

    Except that nobody from any crazy lobe (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:57:48 PM EST
    of America's Christian right will be subjected to the torture they sanction.  That's only for brown people for whom Jesus is not their savior.

    Syria (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:59:04 PM EST
    Oh God No. (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Sweet Sue on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:22:16 PM EST
    There's no debate about whether or not the shooting of Dr. Tiller (in front of his family?)is murder.
    How long can we tolerate the power mad spoon feeding the right to life garbage to the unstable and deranged?
    What's the matter with Kansas? Beats me all to hell.

    Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by KeysDan on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:09:31 PM EST
    should re-think her decision on that domestic security report.  This is a serious threat, no politics, no apologizing.

    Seriously (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:48:02 PM EST
    every time the right wing loses power they start killing people.

    I understand what you are getting at, (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by KeysDan on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:06:29 PM EST
    but that proclivity does not disappear from some wingers, even when in power--really a scary lot.

    This was a good man. (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by Sweet Sue on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:19:25 PM EST
    It is my understanding that late term abortions are only performed in extreme cases. No one in her right mind would wish to undergo that unless it was absolutely necessary.
    Dr. Tiller was gunned down in his church for daring to do what he was trained to do-provide patients with medical help.

    Is this what they call "pro-life"? (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by KoolJeffrey on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:37:20 PM EST

    To be pro-life, you also (4.00 / 3) (#38)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 03:40:43 PM EST
    have to advocate torture and the war in Iraq.

    Please don't (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by indy in sc on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:28:53 PM EST
    paint all pro-life people with the brush of this individual who appears to be a violent extremist.  A depraved act like this is in direct opposition of the "culture of life" and only sets back the pro-life movement.

    This murder was tragic and inexcusable and I hope the person or persons behind it are brought to justice. I also hope it teaches the truly pro-life to find ways to express their views that do not encourage the lunatics to commit murders in the name of life.


    I am referring to religious conservatives (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:37:55 PM EST
    who are quite comfortable with torture and the Iraq war--not only anecdotally but according to scientific polling.

    The acceptance of torture among the pro-life group is particularly galling.


    Once again, (none / 0) (#111)
    by KoolJeffrey on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 01:12:19 PM EST
    Who are the "truly pro-life"?

    I also hope it teaches the truly pro-life to find ways to express their views that do not encourage the lunatics to commit murders in the name of life.

    I'm willing to wager that up to 30% of people who say they are pro-life don't find this "tragic".


    Who would Jesus Shoot? (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Doc Rock on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:39:21 PM EST

    Actually, (none / 0) (#48)
    by Lil on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:15:47 PM EST
    from what I've heard, his weapon of choice is a sword while riding on horseback to smite us all.

    You know what (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:46:56 PM EST
    I'm all for reasoned debate, but this is neither the time nor the place, so may be you should stf up.

    This is just awful; I'm sick about it. (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Anne on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:47:47 PM EST
    Sick for his family, sick for what it means for reproductive choice, sick for the inevitable rationalizations that will no doubt follow.

    I do not believe there is a woman alive who would want to be in a position to have needed Dr. Tiller's services, because doing so meant that a new life conceived and begun in happiness was found to be irreparably and severely damaged, with little hope for any significant quality of life.  Dr. Tiller helped women deal with tragedy, not triumph.  Those who came to him knew there would be no happy ending for them, even if they ultimately decided against a late-term procedure.

    This was not a man intent on ending life, but a man intent on honoring the lives of the women who sought his help.  I know there are many who saw him as evil, as one who had the gall to interfere in God's plan; I guess no one considered that maybe George Tiller was part of that plan all along.

    Peace to his family and those who loved and worked with him.

    Out of curiousity (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:51:14 PM EST
    when the plane hit the pentagon on 9-11 were you one of those people who talked about how the soldiers deserved it?

    The sad thing is you don't know what you are (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:07:09 PM EST
    talking about.  Late term abortion is 99.9% of the time a way to protect the mother or to abort a fetus that has SEVERE problems.  Should we force a woman to have a give birth to a child without a head (still has a beating heart?).  

    Ask yourself before you speak or write, why would a woman decide to have an abortion after the 26th week (I unlike you, will define my term- Late term abortion= a point at which the fetus is viable- thus can survive on its own).  At the 26th week an abortion is not a form a birth control, it is a way to save a life, and allow the majority of these woman (who are most likely devistated), to try again.

    And another thing (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Sweet Sue on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:10:15 PM EST
    Maybe our romantic President can have his very best friend, Rick Warren, make sense of it all for us.

    I would have hoped to hear (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Cream City on Sun May 31, 2009 at 05:52:40 PM EST
    from a Dem president by now, speaking out about this -- after all, this is about a principle in the platform of the party.

    But yes, perhaps the president is practicing what he preaches about abortion and is consulting his spiritual advisor.


    Here: (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Tony on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:12:28 PM EST

    I am shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller as he attended church services this morning. However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence.

    I'll say again (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:42:11 PM EST
    the issue is not abortion.  Nobody is "pro-abortion" (that I know of).

    The issue, the party platform of TRUE Democrats is the right to choose.  

    The right to CHOOSE, is that so hard for Obama, a Democratic President to say?


    Good. And I hope he sees (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Cream City on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    how well it went, two weeks ago, to attempt "common ground."  That may work with moderates.  But the one whom he honored with his inaugural invocation is not a moderate.  That encouraged those extremists, and that is abhorrent for a president to do.  It has got to stop.

    I want to see what he'll do (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by andgarden on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:46:05 PM EST
    about right wing terrorism in America.

    In an international context (none / 0) (#74)
    by Lolis on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:48:30 PM EST
    Terrorist always try to ruin peace negotiations with violence. I believe that Obama's outreach has the potential to improve access to birth control/sex ed for millions of women and create a more honest dialogue between people of good faith. I also believe it has the potential to improve conditions for doctors who perform abortions. His outreach further marginalize people like the shooter who are extremists and have no respect for the law. I hope his effort is not halted by this tragic murder.

    Ah, our passive-aggressive (3.25 / 4) (#76)
    by Cream City on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:29:48 PM EST
    pseudo-intellectual downrater is lurking again!

    cream city (2.60 / 5) (#88)
    by sher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 08:45:22 AM EST
    I/m not lurking; I don't care to engage with you.  I experience you as condescending, patronizing, and yes, "passive-aggressive" under a superficial gloss of second rate academia pseudo-intellectualism.  My opinion of your comments should not matter or bother you.

    You most certainly ARE lurking (4.33 / 6) (#89)
    by sj on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 09:43:28 AM EST
    You commented twice in April, once in January, a three times in November, etc.  That makes you a lurker.  Now in general, I see absolutely nothing wrong with being a lurker.  There is more than one site that I visit to read only, and not engage.

    But as for this:

    I don't care to engage with you

    What you say is, frankly, dishonest because you engage via ratings, happily downrating along without bothering to present a viewpoint at all.  Because you never have to defend whatever views you may actually have, in my view, that contributes far less then "pseudo-intellectualism".  

    And I think it's a testament the quality of the commenters here that they aren't taking the opportunity to use this comment to downrate you just for fun.  I suspect that I am not the only one who experiences you much like a [disease-free] mosquito: irksome and irritating, but with no long term effects.  I find you doubly irritating, because you share a name with one of my favorite people, but that's not your fault.

    But go ahead.  Downrate away.  As you say, they do no harm here as they do on some other sites.  I've got lots of mental hydrocortisone to deal with the itching of your bytes.

    * * * * *

    ha!  This was much more fun than a simple downrating.


    your problem (3.00 / 4) (#90)
    by sher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 09:59:41 AM EST
    is that I don't share your opinion on many matters.  Many of those that I downrate I also frequently give "5s" such as Anne who I experience as thoughtful and honest although I frequently disagree with her. It should also be noted that I do not downrate comments merely because I disagree with the opinion stated. Finally, I don't believe in redundancy and many of the commenters here say better than I can what I think.  I suggest that if you have a problem with the comment function on this blog take it up with someone else.

    My problem (3.66 / 3) (#91)
    by sj on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 10:24:09 AM EST
    is that I have no idea what your opinions are.  You never voice them.  And where the heck did this come from?

    I suggest that if you have a problem with the comment function on this blog take it up with someone else.

    If that's an example of your reading comprehension I take back what I said about your method of engaging.  I now believe you know yourself better than most, and agree that you should trust others to say things better than you can.  

    And to think:  I was genuinely interested in what you really do think.  Oh well.


    Ok... (1.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Thanin on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:33:41 PM EST
    this is really personal for someone not affected by any of this, and quite uncalled for.  Now you're just being an AH.

    Why are you being such a jerk? (none / 0) (#96)
    by Thanin on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:50:45 PM EST
    The more you freak out about downranking the more obvious it is how much it hurts your feelings.

    Not freaking :) (none / 0) (#99)
    by sj on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:16:22 PM EST
    I'm enjoying myself.  

    Neither your nor sher's actions have any affect on me, my comments, my life, or my emotional well-being whatsoever.  Except that when you comment (and Thanin you actually do comment, which I appreciate, even if I don't always agree) it opens the door to actual engagement.  Which I'm doing.  And enjoying.  

    Or was.  Now it's getting boring and I have real thoughts to go read.

    Ta for now.


    Good retort... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Thanin on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:26:08 PM EST
    though I think my post still stands, but well played sir/madam, well played.

    Your opinion is (3.25 / 4) (#92)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:00:52 AM EST
    what is missing.  It only comes out in attacks like the one I quoted -- and in clicks on little circles.  And a review of your ratings shows that those clicks land on comments that aren't even opinions but clearly have other causes.  

    Of course, when you do emerge to make comments like the ones here -- that's why I find you funny.


    I'd rank this a 10 if I could. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Thanin on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:51:55 PM EST
    Honest question, Thanin (1.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 09:16:55 PM EST
    sher comments once every few months and has very few total comments. Regular readers and commenters only know her through her ratings. You seem to know her well enough to give pretty high accolades to her opinions. Are you friends in real life? Could you convince her to let us get to know her a bit better and comment regularly?

    Bitter. (none / 0) (#95)
    by Thanin on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:49:01 PM EST
    Ha, hardly. Just quoting (none / 0) (#103)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:01:49 PM EST
    one of the funniest of her comments here.

    He was (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Natal on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:05:02 PM EST
    "outraged". How can anyone be more than outraged?

    A hero assassinated (5.00 / 6) (#30)
    by fiver2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:22:34 PM EST
    Thank you, Dr. Tiller, for your bravery and for giving your life for women.  

    I found myself sobbing when I read the article.  Perhaps this was the result of pregnancy hormones, as I'm two months pregnant.  In my case, the pregnancy is intended, as we're trying to give our first child a sibling.  I have never needed an abortion.  But nevertheless, Dr. Tiller's courageous work benefited me -- I know that it was performed in service of my liberty and autonomy and right to self determination just as it was for all the women he helped over the years.  And if -- heaven forbid -- anything were to go seriously wrong with my pregnancy, I thank my maker that people exist who are as brave and self-sacrificing as Dr. Tiller who could assist us.

    This is not the first time Dr. Tiller suffered gunshots.  The first time, it wasn't fatal.  The shooter is still serving a sentence for attempted murder.  The man is an American hero.  That he continued to work in Kansas despite the numerous attempts on his life (most recently a bomb at his clinic), and despite malicious prosecutions (a jury deliberated for less than an hour before acquitting him on 19 counts) speaks volumes about his character and his determination to help so many women who had no place else to go.

    My heart goes out to his wife.

    Just FYI (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Fabian on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:23:06 PM EST
    google anencephaly and look at the images.

    That's not the only fetal condition that can cause women to opt for a late trimester abortion, but it's a common one.  

    This is a case of domestic terrorism. (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by AX10 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    No question about that.

    The killer is a terrorist (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 03:39:21 PM EST
    WTF (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 31, 2009 at 03:47:12 PM EST
    is your problem?

    No (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 04:46:56 PM EST
    We should not waterboard or otherwise torture anyone.  I would hope we could all agree on that.

    And, I also oppose capital punishment.

    That he is a terrorist does not mean we descend into barbarism ourselves....

    Perhaps obvious and not as pithy as BTD but perhaps worth saying.


    And, I have been an opponent (none / 0) (#43)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 05:04:22 PM EST
    of capital punishment beginning with my last post here.

    I have been reluctantly accepting of capital punishment for some time but gravely troubled by it.

    But something about this murder and a knee jerk call for vengeance has tipped the balance.  My opposition to capital punishment is as much visceral as intellectual:  There is enough ugly in life already; deliberately killing someone is ugly and to be avoided.


    I have always opposed capital punishment (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:53:30 PM EST
    Nothing today has changed that.

    I find my tentative opposition tested (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by andgarden on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:59:57 PM EST
    Good for you (none / 0) (#57)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 07:03:30 PM EST
    It would be also good if elected Dems change their minds too.

    The killer is on the exact same level (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 31, 2009 at 07:37:27 PM EST
    as a jihadist suicide bomber.  Not one shred of difference outside of the fact that they will live a life in prison from here on out instead of decomposing.  It's an attempt to inspire the exact same kind of terror in hopes of controlling large masses of people.  Funny how this sort of terrorism also almost always must contain an element of religious addiction.  Nothing more than an addict killing someone to get their fix.  We are getting ready for late dinner after a day of extreme yard work and I'm still overcome with sadness and grief over this.  He will never work in his yard again.  He helped people.  He helped people during one of the most traumatizing horrifying life experiences that can happen to any one of us and fruitcakes murdered him.  I gave birth to a disabled child whose mental faculties will not hinder him in being able to live when I take the dirt nap thanks be to all the Gods.  I know this trauma though, I can easily reach out and touch those that he gave aid and comfort and hope and healing to.  Today feels like a long day with no happy ending that will come along for me.  I'm grieved to the depths that skim the surface of losing someone directly in my life.

    You say (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Matt v on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:49:34 PM EST
     "I am for freedom of choice - to a point."

     Who determines the point? You?

     You sound much like those who place very little value on women unless they are pregnant.

    Pathetically inadequate statement by Obama (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by shoephone on Sun May 31, 2009 at 07:31:19 PM EST
    And sadly, it's exactly what I expect from him, when reproductive choice is the issue.

    Color me disgusted.

    Totally pathetic. (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by masslib on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:00:17 PM EST
    What in the hell is he talking about?  This isn't about abortion being a "difficult issue".  This is terrorism.  I read that a friend of Tiller's said he is now the only doctor in the country who still performs the procedure.  FIVE other physicians have been MURDERED.  My God, what is wrong with this country?  There will soon be no options for women in need of late-term abortions.  The terrorists will have won.  And, I blame elected Democrats as well, who continue to argue they only agree with late-term abortion in the case of the health of the mother or the fetus, as though it's ever performed in any other circumstance!  As though abortion isn't already highly regulated!  As though there are board certified doctors in this country happy to give late-term abortions to viable fetuses of healthy mothers!  Obama's mealy mouthed statement is just cowardly.  When is an American President going to call these acts what they are?  Terrorism.

    What did you want him to say? (none / 0) (#73)
    by Lolis on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:43:04 PM EST
    I thought it was interesting the statement highlighted the doctor was killed at church. That was obviously done for a reason.

    Here is Holder's written response:

    Statement from Attorney General Holder ...

        "The murder of Doctor George Tiller is an abhorrent act of violence, and his family is in our thoughts and prayers at this tragic moment. Federal law enforcement is coordinating with local law enforcement officials in Kansas on the investigation of this crime, and I have directed the United States Marshals Service to offer protection to other appropriate people and facilities around the nation. The Department of Justice will work to bring the perpetrator of this crime to justice. As a precautionary measure, we will also take appropriate steps to help prevent any related acts of violence from occurring."


    He could say that this is a federal crime (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Cream City on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:32:34 PM EST
    that will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, as will any and all who supported this effort, and that all efforts of the federal government are immediately being employed to track them down, and that any such organizations or groups ought to be quaking in fear. . . .

    That's just what I come up with in seconds, but I'm no White House speechwriter or AG or even a lawyer.  The president being a lawyer, I'm sure that he also knows that this was a federal crime, that he has the power to pull out all the stops, etc.

    This is no time for hand-wringing.


    We all know murder is a violent act (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by shoephone on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:03:58 AM EST
    La-dee-dah. He is too afraid to take on the reason behind the murder -- the religious right's holy war against women's reproductive rights.

    There is a LOT more he could have said, but he's been pretty busy lately placating the wingers with calls for us all to engage in "a national discussion about abortion."

    Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not interested in discussing it. And I'm done with politicians placating those who wish to take away my rights.


    The right wing media (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Natal on Sun May 31, 2009 at 08:32:41 PM EST
    deliberately tries to rev up its followers to a heightened emotional pitch and as do the evangelicals. And this is the consequence. It's irresponsible. "When will they ever learn."

    When you folks start (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:37:52 PM EST
    putting as much energy into lobbying for available, high quality daycare; paid maternal leave; economic justice in the form of a living wage etc as you do into saving fetuses that, once born, seem to fall off the "pro-life" radar of concern, then maybe we can talk.

    Oh God, No. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sweet Sue on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:23:01 PM EST

    Let justice be done (none / 0) (#44)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 05:25:37 PM EST
    Whatever the justice may be.

    And if there is a h*ll may the perpetrator rot in it.

    I would agree that the criminal defense (none / 0) (#79)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:43:22 PM EST
    system favors the prosecution too much.  I like the information this blog provides on that issue.

    The president's statement (none / 0) (#46)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 05:59:05 PM EST
    This part of his wording hit me: "Issues like abortion".  

    Abortion is not the issue for Democrats, the issue is a woman's right to her privacy and to choose what to do with her own body.

    Why couldn't a Democratic President have incorporated "right to choose" into his statement?

    Yes, well He COULD have, but then he couldn't (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by allimom99 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:17:44 PM EST
    continue to hedges his bets about choice, gay rights, unreasonable search and seizure, etc, etc. It's almost too gratifying to now see buyer's remorse setting in. See, that's what you get when the pretty pictures distract you from reading the text....

    I was bracing for worse (none / 0) (#50)
    by andgarden on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:20:17 PM EST
    It definitely (none / 0) (#51)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 06:39:26 PM EST
    could have been worse.  But it wasn't the statement of a Democratic president, it was the statement of a "bipartisan" president.

    It seemed more like a statement (none / 0) (#58)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun May 31, 2009 at 07:19:35 PM EST
    carefully crafted by a staffer. Hard to imagine anyone can express "shock and outrage" in just two sentences (one of which is used to state he was shocked and outraged). I hope he can speak on the topic openly tomorrow because right now we really don't know what he thinks of it.

    Nah, "Bipartisan" is so passe :-) (none / 0) (#59)
    by Politalkix on Sun May 31, 2009 at 07:22:37 PM EST
    The new thing is "mutual admiration".

    I think the "issues like" (none / 0) (#69)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:07:19 PM EST
    Is because of choice isn't the only issue that right wing terroists have hit recently- immigration, religion, etc. these nuts are killing for a number of things.

    Choice (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:34:07 PM EST
    was the issue in this case....not abortion.

    He made the center-right statement.  He did not make the statement a Democrat would make.


    No debate required (none / 0) (#62)
    by kidneystones on Sun May 31, 2009 at 07:44:11 PM EST
    Very few pro-choice folks I know would harass, much less assault, anyone involved with providing safe-health care to women.

    The idea that anything like a majority of pro-choice folks approve of or in any way condone murder of any kind is an offensive smear and bigotry at its worst, much like suggesting most Muslims approve of Al Quaida.

    I'm of the opinion that only a lunatic would shoot down someone in cold blood for 'moral' or political reasons. I see no reason to execute such an individual. Life imprisonment suffices.

    We may see more crime, but not because the 'right-wing' is out of power (they're not IMHO, btw, just re-branded) but because more and more families and individuals are under stress from lost jobs, etc.

    I'm pro-choice, but believe that terminating pregnancies is not as simple as removing a wart or a hang-nail. Banning abortion is not an option.

    All women need to have access to safe health-care.

    NOW's statement is out (none / 0) (#64)
    by nycstray on Sun May 31, 2009 at 08:34:15 PM EST
    Will there be white armbands tomorrow (none / 0) (#65)
    by Cream City on Sun May 31, 2009 at 08:54:53 PM EST
    worn in the White House?  Somehow, I doubt it.

    I will wear one.


    Not in the WH (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by nycstray on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:09:46 PM EST
    But I would hope in the Sen and House.

    Why white? (none / 0) (#80)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:44:31 PM EST
    Is not black the custom?....White is the color of death, though....  

    Ask NOW (none / 0) (#81)
    by Cream City on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:54:50 PM EST
    as the wearing of ribbons and armbands of varied colors has a long and, well, colorful history in this country, and I know what the white represented in the past, but I will spare you that!

    You should do a post about that (none / 0) (#85)
    by nycstray on Sun May 31, 2009 at 11:52:08 PM EST
    I sometimes pick up on the color ref, but usually, if it's not explained (as in this case) I'll just go with the flow out of respect.

    Orange ribbons were chosen here in NYC by an animal welfare group when we first went no-kill. I didn't agree with everything the group believed in, but the bigger picture was all of the animal welfare groups wearing the same ribbon at events etc, and it was a way to talk about the city's direction with homeless animals when someone asked. Well, funny thing is, orange is now the ASPCA's identifiable color for no-kill and I do agree with their methods/nationwide program orange. So my orange ribbons on my camera bag etc, now truly represent what I think a few years down the line. And the animal welfare group is also having their message spread, which is no kill, even though they aren't connected anymore to the color on the big picture.


    Well, the first white-ribboners (none / 0) (#86)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:32:53 AM EST
    as they were known, were the participants in the 1873-74 crusade (150,000 women, every state and territory) that led them to found the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, which continued to adopt the white ribbons/armbands.

    And I don't think that NOW is for temperance, so it must be an allusion to intervening uses of white -- which is, of course, a funereal color (not just the black to which some of us here clearly are more accustomed) because white symbolizes the soul.

    Me, I proudly wear purple and yellow ribbons every August 26 in recognition of other women's organizations to which we owe so much.  But that's another story.:-)


    Okay, this is the day (none / 0) (#107)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:23:13 PM EST
    that the trolls officially tipped TL over the edge!

    Funny comment, jondee -- even though you may not have meant it that way.  But it has been intriguing today, with this story, to see the return of the sort of new commenters not seen since the campaign.

    What did I say that (none / 0) (#108)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 05:27:32 PM EST
    could be interpreted as a troll, if that is indeed what you're implying, Cream?

    This chronically offended (none / 0) (#109)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 05:38:22 PM EST
    Puma posse that just showed here a few months ago seems positively intent on running anyone off the site that dosnt toe their imaginary line.

    Abortion Clinic Doctor Killed (none / 0) (#110)
    by Myself on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 10:55:43 AM EST
    Is it just me or does anyone else not see how ironic this really is.