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A Serious Charge

Here is the problem with the Left Blogs:

I get the sense that Clinton has decided to game entirely on going after conservative Democratic voters, using the gimmick of the gas tax holiday, pugilistic foreign policy ideas, and race-baiting.

And finally, the ease with which the destructive and inflammatory charge of "race baiting" is levelled, without citing even one example of this so called race baiting, is an indication that the Left blogs are simply smearmongers now. Disgraceful. Let me quote Charlie Rangel, ironically cited in the same post for other purposes:

More...

Thinking is no longer a part of the Left blogger process anymore. Inflammatory false smears are all the rage. Three points: First, is Obama NOT going after "conservative" Democratic voters? Heck, "conservative" voters period. Isn't that what the Unity Schtick was all about? Second, it's wonderful that the gas tax holiday, a stupid political gimmick to be sure, is now intended for "conservative" voters. Is there any basis for that statement? Of course not. And we all know that the $600 "stimulus" rebate that ALL Democrats supported was a pure policy initiative. My gawd, did all Left bloggers just fall of the political turnip truck?

RANGEL: Well, one thing is I worked with Hillary Clinton for over 20 years. I worked with her when she was first lady in education and health issues and, certainly was a part of her dynamic victory in the state of New York where Republicans, Democrats, real people.

So I know her, I worked for her and there's no question in my mind that her experience would lead this nation out of war and out of this recession we're in. And I have the highest respect for Senator Obama. I just don't know him, don't know what he has done. There's a lot said that he's against the war. But unless you've had the obligation and the emotional obligation to vote for or against the war, what you do in state legislature, I don't really think attaches to the importance as to whether you are for or against the war and had the opportunity to vote for it.

So, there is a pride and should be a pride in terms of seeing Kennedy if you're Irish or a Jewish candidate. If you're Jewish and certainly in an African-American candidate. That's why I was so completely surprised when the question was raised as to whether or not Bill Clinton, when he was attacked by Jim Clyburn who certainly doesn't speak for all African-Americans and he's supposed to not be involved in being neutral in this race, when Bill Clinton raised the fact that Jackson also had won in South Carolina.

Heck, we're not color blind. Jim Clyburn is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. I am one of the founders of the Congressional Black Caucus. Senator Obama is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. And so, the Clintons have already proven and I don't think they have to wear it on their sleeve that more African-Americans prospered in terms of jobs, education opportunity, moving forward. So I don't think, really, they have to put a banner.

(Emphasis supplied.) On this, I trust Charlie Rangel and not Matt Stoller.

Comments now closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Thank you for this post, BTD.... (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:21:13 AM EST
    ...a sanity infusion to start out my day is always appreciated.

    BTD - thank you (none / 0) (#46)
    by noholib on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:59:27 AM EST
    This post is crucially important.
    Please spread the Rangel quote as far and wide as possible.
    Thank you!

    [ Parent ]
    The gas tax holiday is POPULIST. (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by LarryInNYC on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:24:23 AM EST
    Switching tax payments from consumers to corporations is somehow conservative?  Jeez Louis, a mind really is a terrible thing to waste.

    This is classic populism.  Not being a fan of populism I believe that it's kind of meaningless.  But it's certainly not conservative.

    Well, she's couched it in populist (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:25:36 AM EST
    language. So certainly that's the aim. She's not making a conservative argument for it.

    [ Parent ]
    I just watched her on CNN (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:27:06 AM EST
    and you are completely spot on!

    [ Parent ]
    They've been ignoring the switch (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:27:47 AM EST
    They've been focusing on the gas tax only and totally ignoring the windfall profits tax on oil companies, which is the really good thing about this proposal. It's easier to demonize Clinton if you ignore anything she does that you agree with.

    [ Parent ]
    But even _without_ the transfer. . . (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by LarryInNYC on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:33:25 AM EST
    to a windfall profits tax, Clinton's proposal is still populist -- cutting a regressive tax on working people.  It may be bad policy, but it's populist bad policy rather than conservative bad policy.

    [ Parent ]
    It shows you how (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Salo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:39:38 AM EST
    far the party has fallen when everyone agrees with Bush on this score.

    High energy pirces are now POLICY.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary said "windfall profits tax," and (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by jawbone on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:38:24 AM EST
    Zing went the strings of my heart!

    Just to hear a politician actually bring up that concept, about the obscene profits of the energy sector, makes me feel better.

    Gas prices, as I assume about most other Big Oil pricing, are based on a percentage profit of the costs of their product.  As the base cost rises, the percentage of profit goes up (10% of $100 is double 10% of $50), for no more investment, work by employees, etc. If the price per barrel goes up, their initial outlay goes up, but their profit goes up.  

    With some other areas of the economy, where the consumer really has an alternative, producers may have to do with slightly lower profits in order to keep their customer base.  I have no choice but to buy oil for my furnace or gas for my car. My only alternative is to not heat my house using my furnace (electric heaters, for example) or to not drive (bicycle to nearby shops, take the bus where possible to further places, but pay in time with a 20 minute car trip to a doctor taking 1 and a half to two hours via the bus system/walking).  Most people have not choice but to pay what the gas and oil cost. Cuts come elsewhere.

    Hence, the gallon of gas for the gallon of milk choice. I haven't priced powdered milk as a substitute for fresh milk, but I remember the taste difference!

    Hillary's "pandering" of the gas tax holiday does mean something to people on the edge financially.  And the choice is between that gallon of milk (or other food or medicine or shoes that fit) and the gallon of gas.  Calcium/food for the kids or getting to work.

    Again, long term, gas and heating oil prices will continue to increase. What will we do to assist those whose earnings can't handle this kind of increase? Transportation Stamps, to go along with Food Stamps?

    I'd love a Prius; I can't afford one, and I'm not as close to the edge as many in our nation are.

    What do we do as a society?

    It seems that Hillary at least shows conignizance of what's happening to those earning less in the economy.  I'm surprised Obama hasn't taken this approach, even if he thinks the tax holiday is wrong. What does the Un of Chi economics school think about this kind of thing?

    What does he think is right?

    [ Parent ]

    Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks (none / 0) (#201)
    by allimom99 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:49:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    The windfall tax.... (none / 0) (#198)
    by kdog on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:06:40 PM EST
    is the worst part of her proposal.

    Doesn't she realize that anytime you tax a corporation, the tax gets passed on to the customer...and that would be us eventually.

    Eliminate the gas tax and get road funding from the existing budget...if that requires cuts, I recommend the DEA budget for the cuts.

    [ Parent ]

    Tax per gallon (none / 0) (#164)
    by cal1942 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:52:16 AM EST
    is actually a regressive tax. It disproportionally affects middle and lower income people as well as small truckers and other small businesses.

    I admit that I'm not aware of the way the tax would be passed to the oil industry but if it has progressive features then, since I have a problem with all regressive taxes (ex: sales tax), I have a problem with anyone making a big fuss about shifting the burden.

    [ Parent ]

    Bill "committed candor," (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:24:37 AM EST
    as he likes to say, when he accused the Obama campaign of playing the race card against him in a radio interview just before PA.

    Of course there's no perfect response to this. Rangel's words go some way though, I think.

    Committed candor (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:26:27 AM EST
    I didn't know he was fond of saying that, when playing politics though that is a pretty funny phrasing.

    [ Parent ]
    how is this for candor? (none / 0) (#83)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:20:25 AM EST
    Stelllaaa posted this link, wherein we find:

    Ninety per cent of [Obama's] popular-vote lead over Hillary Clinton comes from Illinois, and two-thirds of that 90 per cent comes just from Cook County.

    My god, is that true?!


    [ Parent ]

    Illinois vote (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:12:23 PM EST
    Obama 1,301,954
    Clinton 662,845

    Difference: 639,109

    Yes.

    To me, this was always another reason he isn't a strong as some present him.

    [ Parent ]

    The Chicago machine is very efficient.. (none / 0) (#167)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:06:59 PM EST
    it is almost as efficient at getting out the vote as it is corrupt. After all, they are betting that Obama will elevate some of them to national office if he wins the presidency. Just what we need, the Daley machine in DC.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama likes to link himself to JFK (none / 0) (#180)
    by Cream City on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:46:48 PM EST
    and hopes to win in 1960 as JFK did -- down to Michelle Obama's "Jackie makeover -- but mainly with the winning edge from the Daley machine.

    [ Parent ]
    Michelle only WISHES (none / 0) (#203)
    by allimom99 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:51:38 PM EST
    someone would EVER think to compare her to Jackie. AS IF!

    [ Parent ]
    This form of media has so much to offer (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:24:55 AM EST
    and yet, it is really sad what has happened during this primary.  I remember checking out Red State sometimes before 2006 and thinking, wow, these people never engage their intellect they just regurgitate to "create" a bubble reality.  Now most of the left blogs have become that as well.  I have read some of the most thoughtless things written by people who are extremely intelligent recently.  Almost everything out there is screeching rhetoric.

    There's more critical... (none / 0) (#125)
    by Salo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:49:37 AM EST
    ...thinking going on there than you'd expect.  But they are conservatives first, last and always.

    [ Parent ]
    Just one more charge on the pile (5.00 / 8) (#7)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:26:22 AM EST
    The most recent offensive meme I've seen is that Clinton is "hobbling" Obama because she wants McCain to win so she can run against him in 4 years. They have been saying, rather ironically, imo, that Clinton feels a sense of entitlement to the office of the Presidnet. It's ironic because they have been acting as if Obama is entitled to the office and anything Clinton does to win at this point is cheating.

    For example, the "Clinton lost 4 games in a 7 game series and wants to play all 7" comment in your link. It's clever. But it assumes that the contest is over, when in reality their candidate has not won. Not even once, much less 4 times. A better analogy would be that we're in the 7th inning of a baseball game and their candidate is ahead. But that won't occur to them because, in their minds, Obama has won and Clinton is just trying to spoil his win.

    Similarly, (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by litigatormom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:32:54 AM EST
    the MSM, at the urging of Obama supporters, constantly ask "can the superdelegates take it away from Obama if Obama is winning in pledged delegates."

    You can't take something "away" from someone when that someone doesn't yet have it. The fact that you're winning a race doesn't mean you've won. To continue dianem's analogy, a very wise sage once said, "It ain't over 'til it's over."  Just because it's the bottom of the 9th with two out doesn't mean that the game is over -- especially if the game is at Yankee Stadium.

    [ Parent ]

    I guess in Chicago (none / 0) (#20)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:35:31 AM EST
    everyone get a nomination! (Oprah joke, stand back!)

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by litigatormom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:55:35 AM EST
    No wonder the Cubbies have had such a hard time.

    [ Parent ]
    TeamO strategy: Declare win, make rival fold, win (5.00 / 0) (#94)
    by Ellie on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:27:30 AM EST
    Obama hasn't closed it because these legendary "insurmountables" aren't borne by the actual vote.

    his kind of (non)enthralling Lo, Teh New Coolness! message ping-ponged between media and blogren hasn't swayed the voters.

    Sen Clinton didn't fold.

    No wonder Team Obama and the blogren are in hair tearing mode. The astro-trolls and Pester Squadron spreading the word on all the media blogs that The One had finally come are looking more obviously like nano-bots programmed to deliver spin.

    [ Parent ]

    I think that is "Team R" strategy (5.00 / 3) (#140)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:09:26 AM EST
    It worked for Rove in 2000 so Axelrod figured that it would work for Obama in 2008. But Hillary Clinton is not Al Gore. As much as I like Gore (I always did), I disagreed strongly with his refusal to go to the mat for the win in 2000. I want a President who will fight for the office, and he didn't. Clinton has proven that she is willing to fight. Win or lose, she has my respect.

    [ Parent ]
    Rove had a goon squad and lock-steppers (none / 0) (#161)
    by Ellie on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:47:41 AM EST
    Dems don't have the muscle, the 'nads or the follow through for a Repug-style pile-on.

    No wonder Sen. Clinton has been able to stay in this no matter where they move the goalposts.

    Even the Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a second-hand weapon TeamObama and their coterie of ambitious, hand-wringing Saruman Dems haven't thought through very well. What rancid piece of chewed over anti-Clinton meat do they think will get the d0uchebags in media ravening?

    Clinton LIED We Think!?! She may or may not have practiced racism depending on what your monitor's gamma is?

    Please. If the Dems oust her, Rezko and Wright will be on the fresh meat platter the media will be feasting on.

    And in over-using easily debunked claims of racism to pile on the Clintons, TeamO has innoculated the media against being called racist, freeing them to join the Repugs in busting wide open the cold civil war in place since the Voting Rights Act.

    [ Parent ]

    Gotta luv the conspiracy theorists out there ;) (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:29:01 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It has been a "puzzlement" to me (5.00 / 12) (#10)
    by litigatormom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:27:40 AM EST
    that Left Blogistan has consistently portrayed Obama as the true progressive in the race, given not just oft-stated desire to "bring Republicans and Democrats together," but also his demonstrably less progressive health care policy, and his kinder-than-necessary words for Ronald Reagan and Republican ideas generally. Don't forget, one of Obama's big mentors when he first came to the Senate was Joe Liebertoad.

    The passage BTD quoted above is disgusting.  Are only "conservative" Democrats having a hard time paying for gas? Are only "conservative" Democrats having a hard time paying for -- or even getting -- healthcare?  Since when is deterrence a "pugilistic" foreign policy?  And what race-baiting are we talking about here?  Clinton has been quite restrained on the Rev. Wright issue, whatever she's said on that issue has not been even remotely "race-baiting."

    Obama's supporters seem to think he's got a glass jaw; there seems to be very little criticism that can be made of him without crossing some sort of line.

    Not the way a "frontrunner" acts.

    It's true (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:30:23 AM EST
    they are terrified for him. Remember, most didn't actually support him in the first place for several of the reasons you cite. It's fun to go back and read David Sirota on Obama before he got on the unity train. Matt Stoller, at least, has mostly avoided suspending his disbelief.

    [ Parent ]
    Sirota's latest (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by Fabian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:41:35 AM EST
    is especially vomitrocious.  He puts the "pathological liar" meme in his title.  The killer is that he's harping on Clinton talking about projection win/loss margins - not any actual Issue.  

    [major eye roll!]

    [ Parent ]

    Well, I've never liked Sirota (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:43:42 AM EST
    though I know that a lot of people feel differently. Fact is, he's always been this way.

    [ Parent ]
    Dude, you are shattering my fragile world (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:48:07 AM EST
    I used to like David Sirota a lot when he was as much of a freak about the same things that I was.  Now he's just another idiot out there, life is so unfair........so many feet of clay and my tears keep eroding and melting them :)

    [ Parent ]
    Sirota latches onto an idea (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Fabian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:01:39 AM EST
    and runs with it - he acts like he's always writing for a deadline.  So whatever is at hand is what he uses - trash or treasure.  Some bloggers have higher standards than others.  It just galls me that Sirota harps about truth and lies when it comes to polls of all things!  The next thing you know, Hillary will make a comment about the weather and people will attack her for saying it was a fine sunny day when any fool could see there was a cloud in the sky!

    [ Parent ]
    Sirota wrote something. . . (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by LarryInNYC on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:45:40 AM EST
    months ago lauding Richard Viguerie's (sp?) role in the Republican Party.  It appears he wants Democrats to go directly from out of power to hopelessly split along ideological lines, skipping the part in the middle where we get to be in power for 30 years.

    [ Parent ]
    He wants to be (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:48:00 AM EST
    a one man liberal Club for Growth.

    [ Parent ]
    While I aspire. . . (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by LarryInNYC on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:13:34 AM EST
    to be a one man liberal Hair Club for Men.

    Really, I found that piece shocking in its admiration for party self-immolation.

    [ Parent ]

    David Sirota (5.00 / 6) (#32)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:47:36 AM EST
    is another I once respected and who is no longer welcome in my house or in my mailbox.

    Time will tell if once the Democrats have a nominee if there will be a "healing" going on. I really doubt it.

    Because once these people have shown that they can't be trusted to tell the truth when it comes to Hillary Clinton; why should we believe them about anything else? I know I won't.

    [ Parent ]

    kid oakland got me to work for Jerry McNerney (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by dotcommodity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:16:21 AM EST
    now, admittedly I could see for myself how McNerney was a good Democrat, but how ironic to be now fighting for the good Democrat against the puppet of the RW with kid oakland!

    Certainly, I find I now skim over kos stories on who one should back...I don't trust his judgement anymore.

    I have subscribed to the actblue pages of a siegel because at least he looks at eco policy, but the big blogger boiz....no more.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Fabian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:43:22 PM EST
    Darn you - and your principles and your issues!

    Don't you know all that trivia gets in the way of a good biographical narrative?  Rags to riches, raised by a single mom and all that!

    [snark, snark I say!]


    [ Parent ]

    Is it against the rules (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by litigatormom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:05:08 AM EST
    for me to call DS "un hijo de puta"?  Because this...

    This headline is a serious question - I'm not trying to be vitriolic or unduly harsh. I'm being sincere when I say this is a very real, honest question.  

    ...is just obscene. The headline, btw, is "Is Hillary Clinton A Pathological Liar?"

    Equally "vomitrocious" (great word, Fabian) is this:

    Indiana is squarely within the Race Chasm (ie. the group of states whose black populations are above 6% and below 17% of the total population). Clinton has won most of her victories in Race Chasm states. I believe that is, at least in part, because of her deft use and exploitation of racial politics.

    What's the proof?  Well, the proposition proves itself: there's a "race chasm," and Clinton has won many states in the "race chasm."  Thus, she MUST be exploiting racial politics.  Because, you know, working class African-Americans couldn't possibly share the same economic concerns as working class whites. Nah. Not possible. Any appeal to the problems of working class people is definitionally racist, right?

    Ay, Dios mio.

    [ Parent ]

    There is no proof (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:18:01 AM EST
    They have not been able to point to a single instance of Clinton using "racial politics", even though they have been searching for monthes. The "logic" behind this charge seems to be an assumption that since Obama is the better candidate, the only reason that anybody would not vote for him is that he is black, and since Obama is running as a "post-racial" candidate, the only reason anybody will notice that he's black is if Clinton reminds them. Therefore, the only reason that Obama isn't winning by overwhelming margins is that Clinton is turning Obama into "the black candidate".


    [ Parent ]
    when I see this it tells me the traffic (none / 0) (#188)
    by thereyougo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:49:48 PM EST
    fumes are clouding their thinking, and judgemenet. I'm so done with them. Kids afterall.

    [ Parent ]
    when I see this it tells me the traffic (none / 0) (#189)
    by thereyougo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:50:00 PM EST
    fumes are clouding their thinking, and judgemenet. I'm so done with them. Kids afterall.

    [ Parent ]
    Sirota (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Salo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:42:53 AM EST
    is an intellectual midget. He didn't even follow on with his initial policy interests.

    I'm sorta neutral, both candidates have weaknesses geographically and philosophically.

    I'm just flogging them both--mainly Obama at this point because he's ahead.

    [ Parent ]

    The one reason that I kind of like (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:41:54 AM EST
    Clinton better than Obama is because she has over the course of this primary shown herself to be responsive and adapatble in a way that Obama has not.  Obama definitely has a problem with economic populism because if he didn't he'd be doing and saying things that would appeal to those working class voters that are more and more elusive to him.

    Axelrod made the claim today on Morning Joe that Obama doesn't support the tax holiday because he thinks it is insulting to voters.  Okay - fair enough - maybe that is true - but Obama is not offering any alternative ideas.  He is just saying "no" which is frankly kind of stupid given the fact that he is having a hard time engaging the very voters that are hardest hit by this energy crunch.  He has to show that he is listening and that he will respond with concrete solutions.  My feeling is that Clinton's team understood that allowing McCain to appear the sole populist and responsive candidate would be not only a mistake for her campaign, but also a mistake for the Democratic Party - one that the party has made many times - by either not responding, rejecting without an alternative offer or doing both - but getting caught out offering an alternative much too late to be believable or trustworthy.

    [ Parent ]

    He can't even fake it. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Salo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:53:21 AM EST
    Which is remarkable to me.  There's got to be something like that in him given his activist bio.  Michelle kinda has that ability but he doesn't.

    Most Dems should have that instinct, especially one who seems to have a bit of social activism in his past.

    It makes me question what he is.

    [ Parent ]

    What activist bio? (none / 0) (#160)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:45:49 AM EST
    Organizing is not "activism". Obama was a low level pol with good public speaking skills who got the attention of some "king makers" and ended up way above his head.

    [ Parent ]
    Please insult me some more! (none / 0) (#175)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:28:02 PM EST
    If getting a little relief from gas prices is insulting, I'll take the insult!


    [ Parent ]
    There Is So Much Of This Going On And That (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:31:46 AM EST
    is why we are left to going to just a few sites for "real" information.  Look at what some of these former great sites have become, i.e. DKos and HuffPost.  You don't even recognize that they once were "the" place to go for well-thought out commentary.  As for Clyburn, he should be ashamed for what he has done.  But if you saw him on Face The Nation yesterday, he certainly tried to backpedal on his spew on the Clintons.  Where does it end?

    Negative characterization of Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Coral on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:32:00 AM EST
    on the lefty blogs has bothered me a great deal in the last months. Why would they want to split the coalition that's needed to win in November by defaming an important portion of the Democratic base?

    Thanks for pointing out that post, which I noticed today, too, but decided to ignore it. Because, well, life is short.

    They've hurt their credibility with Democrats like me, who back Clinton because we believe she is more likely to steer the country in a more progressive direction than Obama.

    the good news:? (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:33:07 AM EST
    they are preaching to the choir.
    no minds are being changed.  havent been for a long while now.  IMO.

    True. (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by Fabian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:46:09 AM EST
    It's just that the reality check is going to be that much more painful.

    I never understood why people would willingly seek that environment out.  I started coming to blogs to find objectivity, reality and thoughtful discussions.  Obviously, there's a greater need for the self gratification of the echo chamber.

    [ Parent ]

    It's great to find (5.00 / 7) (#19)
    by lefty lawyer on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:34:53 AM EST
    someone else who uses the "turnip truck" metaphor.  I used it yesterday, and had several people look at me like I was from Mars.

    Anyway, since we have been hearing for several months now that Obama has the nomination wrapped up (even though he clearly doesn't), it's easy for people like Matt Stoller to claim that anything, truly anything, that Hillary Clinton does is hurting the Obama candidacy and is therefore "illegitimate" and "destructive."

    Things like competing for the nomination, or being critical, or making policy distinctions, are per se wrong because they're being done BY Clinton and being done TO Obama.  And of course, my favorite Daily Kosism, anything that Clinton does, says, thinks or implies is "Rovian," a word which, to the extent it ever deserved to exist, has now been leached of all meaning and significance.  In LeftBlogSpeak, it now means "anything that YOU or YOUR candidate does that makes ME feel bad or MY candidate look bad."

    Yeah, whatever.

    Note that on Daily Kos, there's a banner running that shows Obama with a 131 delegate lead.  That data was originally taken from DemConWatch, which had several tables, showing Obama with leads of anywhere from as much as 131 delegates to as few as 10.  That's right, 10.  It's still there on the left of the front page.  Kos, of course, cherrypicked the data that made his candidate look the best, excluding/disenfranchising Michigan and Florida altogether (after praising Clinton for staying on the Michigan ballot, but never mind).

    If the votes of Michigan and Florida are counted, the lead is 10.  Let me say it one more time:  10 delegates.  If she wins Indiana decisively and stays close in North Carolina, she will be ahead under this latter scenario, with Kentucky and West Virginia still to go.

    But Hillary Clinton is wrong and illegitimate for even continuing to fight for the nomination.

    Re 'turnip trucks'... (none / 0) (#172)
    by oldpro on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:17:22 PM EST
    folks of a certain age have always used that expression...the kids will adopt it if somebody tells them it's cool or embeds it in a song lyric...Springsteen, anyone?

    Another local favorite of many of us (oldtimers) is "This ain't(isn't) my first rodeo!"

    Sooooo....the lead is 10?  TEN!?

    Curiouser and curiouser...

    [ Parent ]

    More re "turnip truck" (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by tree on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:06:30 PM EST
    I learned the term from my Mom, as she came from good farmer stock. Just last year as I was driving along I-5 through California's Central Valley, I spotted an open topped truck. As I got closer, I realized that it was carrying turnips! Luck for me I was alone in the car, because I would have had a hard time explaining why I was laughing hysterically for the next 5 minutes!

    [ Parent ]
    thanks for that report that further confirms (none / 0) (#190)
    by thereyougo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:54:19 PM EST
    my judgement not to give the Kos Kidz anymore cred for the crud they post for facts.

    After this is over  I doubt they'll have the traffic that has made them dizzy with fame. They have really harmed themselves.

    [ Parent ]

    So (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:36:48 AM EST
    They have to trash Clinton for vaporware reasons?  This shows that they know what we know -- that Clinton is the better candidate --so they have to invent reasons to trash her.

    And I'll say again, what separates the Clinton supporters from the Obama supporters...:

    The Clinton supporters aren't frequently reduced to propagating untrue smears.  (doctored video, morphing voter registration into voter suppression, accusing a guy who has his office in Harlem of being a racist -- what a joke!)  The true putrid ugliness of this campaign has not been at the hands of Clinton supporters.  We are NOT the same as them.

    And yet, she keeps going (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by felizarte on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:11:17 AM EST
    and looks like beat everyone to the finish line.  And she gets her foot in the door of the NASCAR crowd even:

    May 04, 2008
    Indy 500: Hoosiers Support For Senator Clinton Led By Sarah Fisher

    INDIANAPOLIS, IN - Hoosiers for Hillary today, opening day of practice for the 92nd Indianapolis 500, announced the endorsement of groundbreaking IndyCar Series driver and team owner, Sarah Fisher.

    "We need a president who will stand up for us and be a fighter for Hoosiers and all Americans," said Fisher, who will attempt to qualify for her seventh Indianapolis 500 this May 2008. "Senator Clinton will be a president who steers our country in the right direction and puts our economy back on track. Something Senator Clinton and I have in common is our commitment to achieving our goals, leaving roadblocks behind, refusing to be knocked down. Senator Clinton is a doer and a fighter who keeps getting out there, going for the checkered flag."

    Fisher, 27, of Indianapolis, has competed in six Indianapolis 500s. She is the first woman to earn a pole position at an IndyCar Series event. Fisher is also the youngest woman ever to compete in the Indianapolis 500 at age 19 and the fastest female to qualify for the world's greatest race, with a four-lap average of 229.439 mph in 2003. She is the first female owner/driver of an IndyCar Series team and will compete in her next Indianapolis 500 on May 25.

    "I'm honored to have Sarah's support. Not only has she has broken down barriers in her sport, but she continues to be a role model for young people aspiring to realize their dreams," Senator Clinton said. "Trailblazers like Sarah prove that with hard work and determination, anything is possible in our country."

    Fisher will debut her new team, Sarah Fisher Racing, on Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 12:00 p.m., when she beings practice for the Indianapolis 500.  




    [ Parent ]
    Link: (none / 0) (#68)
    by felizarte on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:12:48 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Link: (none / 0) (#72)
    by felizarte on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:14:49 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Short term fix? (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Sunshine on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:45:07 AM EST
    Sure, it is, even Hillary says so, but she has other methods for the long term fix...  It's summer vacation time and the kids are out of school, they want to go places like the mall, a party, the skating rink, meeting freinds, maybe the lake, kids use a lot of gas, just try to keep them home to conserve gas.... Short term fix sounds great, just to get us through the summer....

    Anyone who can think past (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Fabian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:54:10 AM EST
    their next paycheck can see it's not a long term fix.  Of course, anyone who can think past their next paycheck should also be planning what their, personal, long term strategy to higher gas prices will be.

    I think the real problem with gas prices is that it isn't something you can avoid thinking about like Iraq or Climate Change.  It's something that you are aware of every day.  A skillful politician or an incredibly gifted candidate would be able to turn high gas prices into a symbol of Limited Resources and the necessity of Conserving and Maximizing Efficiency.

    We are going to go there, whether we want to or not.  Better to create a piece of Shiny Rhetoric, frame it as a part of National Pride and Global Leadership than to point fingers.  It's an opportunity for the taking.

    [ Parent ]

    She also made a good point (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:03:07 AM EST
    that what seems like just a little bit of money to the average driver is a lot of money to truckers and small business owners.

    [ Parent ]
    Urban/Suburban/rural divide. (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ben Masel on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:06:38 AM EST
    Around here, kids take the bus for most of that stuff.


    Keep your eyes on November, Frodo. Don't use The Ring.
    [ Parent ]
    This is why the holiday works: (5.00 / 5) (#117)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:43:35 AM EST
    Americans are not long-term financial planners, and as a group, we tend to think economists and scientists who say they know better than us are crap.

    It's sort of like my polling creed, where I only believe polls that support my candidate.  A lot of people only believe science or "facts" that seem plausible to or directly benefit them. (It's why republicans oppose stem cell research until they need it to cure their own cancer...)

    The gas tax holiday is perfectly spun because every American who puts gas in their car knows that with the holiday, they will save money.

    I would also argue the knock-on effect, which is that people may get some emotional relief that will make them feel better about their circumstances.  Is it a temporary fix?  Sure, but how many of us have lived paycheck to paycheck at one point in our lives (or still do) and have said, "If I can just get through this bit...if I could just get an extra fifty bucks this month...it would give me room to breathe."  Perception drives the market more than anything else on earth.  

    [ Parent ]

    Biggest saving for me, ironically (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Ben Masel on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:31:11 AM EST
    would be on my trip to the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair, June 18-20 in Custer Wisconsin.


    Keep your eyes on November, Frodo. Don't use The Ring.
    [ Parent ]
    This election season (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Dave B on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:46:08 AM EST
    I have completely lost respect for the left blogs and the MSM in this election cycle.  The left blogs have turned into a smear mongering machine.  The intensity and zeal with which they pounce on and embrace smears and fraudulent political hit jobs is breathtaking.

    As for the MSM, I am coming to understand how it much feel for a Republican watching most of network and cable news.  I see most of the MSM coverage as unfair to Clinton as we have always perceived Fox New's coverage of Democrats.  I have learned to trust no one, well except for the excellent writers here at talkleft!  Thanks!

    DUH!! Bloggers Do This All the Time (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Edgar08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:46:31 AM EST
    Talking about something as if it's common knowledge, as if no case has to be made, as if everyone knows the thing is true, and no other discussion should transpire about it.

    This is also a decidedly Hard Line Conservative way to build narratives.

    While I admit there's a shorthand to it, and blogging certainly would be tedious to if you had to re-present your case every time you stated your conclusion the fact is, .... in most cases it is reductive and not deductive, and one is compelled to deride the blogger accordingly.  To counter attack.

    And indeed, because everyone knows Matt Stoller is a liar, well, this one is just too easy.

    The blogosphere (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Steve M on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:49:22 AM EST
    has always had a blind spot when it comes to conservative Democrats.  The conventional wisdom is that the sooner we banish these millions of voters, the party will be better off.

    One of the reasons I supported John Edwards is that he had the ability to keep conservative Democrats voting Dem while still running an unabashedly liberal campaign.  But even if we don't compromise our principles, some people still want to play purity troll.

    The Blind Spot Now Is That Obama Is Running (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:09:29 AM EST
    as a progressive. None of list below is anywhere close to being progressive:

    Social Security Is In Crisis (Republican Mantra in 05 to Privatize SS)

    Harry and Louis ads against UHC (duplicates Republican 90's ad
    used to destroy the chance for Americans to receive health care)

    Reagan was an iconic leader and WJC is a failed president.

    Republicans have better ideas government regulations and schools.

    Republicans appointments at Sec. of Defense and Sec. of State.


    IMO no one has done more to help rehabilitate the Republican Party than Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    you forgot Republican clean energy policy (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by dotcommodity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:53:45 AM EST
    BushCheney invested in ethanol, "clean coal" and nuke power, Obama continues the same policy but talks the Climate Change talk as if he's a Democrat.

    [ Parent ]
    Elite thinking... (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by white n az on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:50:09 AM EST
    Says that they can cede populist ideas to McCain and expect that Americans will be happy to pay 18 cents more a gallon because economists say it is the right thing to do.

    Of course Axelrod on NPR stating that the white, working class doesn't vote for Democrats anyway isn't supposed to be part of this equation.

    White working class whites (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by litigatormom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:08:07 AM EST
    don't vote for Democrats? Huh? What?

    [ Parent ]
    Axelrod said it on NPR (none / 0) (#89)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:24:50 AM EST
    really.  I can't find the exact quote, but it was they don't vote for Dems.  sigh

    [ Parent ]
    Here's a link to the interview (none / 0) (#105)
    by DFLer on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:35:56 AM EST
    Exact quote was: (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by DFLer on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:41:26 AM EST
    "The white working class has gone to the Republican nominee for many elections, going back even to the Clinton years. This is not new that Democratic candidates don't rely solely on those votes." -Axelrod

    [ Parent ]
    The Obama 527 Blogs Have Been Completely (5.00 / 7) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:53:04 AM EST
    irresponsible on  the issue of race.  The Democratic Party, not the Republicans Party, is now the party of racists.  Obama's campaign and his supporters in and on the media and the 527 Obama blogs should stand up and take a bow for this great achievement.

    How does branding Clinton and her supporters as racists help the party or the country? How does continuing to harp on this false and destructive theme as part of their political strategy help to unite the party? At this point, this whole issue has been so destructive that neither candidate may be able to win in November.  What a great achievement.


    to those of us who actually live (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:37:24 AM EST
    in mixed communities--you know, with 12-30% aa population, as opposed to states like WA and ME that have around 1% aa's--these specious charges of racism have been particularly damaging.  It has changed the tone of many communities in such a negative way.

    [ Parent ]
    Race Baiting (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by flashman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:03:22 AM EST
    has become, in my mind, the most disgraceful aspect of this election.  What happened to the candidate of change?  Why hasn't he spoken out against this political smear, as John McCain did when conservatives made a smear of Obama's middle name?

    Why hasn't he spoken out on it?? (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:37:00 PM EST
    It came from his campaign to begin with!  This was their strategy, I'm convinced, from the very beginning, to take out the Clintons with accusations of race-baiting and racism.  The Blogger Boyz didn't make this up by themselves, they followed their Dear Leaader.

    [ Parent ]
    let me clear up some of nonsense (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by cpinva on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:03:45 AM EST
    being spouted, by both the obama campaign, and the "left" blogs, regarding sen. clinton's proposed gas tax "holiday".

    1. she has incorporated a means of making it, as much as possible, revenue neutral, by virtue of the imposition of a "windfall profits" tax (and make no mistake, the oil companies are enjoying record profits) on the oil companies.

    2. while the 20 odd cents a gallon at the pump won't have a huge direct effect on consumers at the pump, it will have a ripple effect. everything you buy will ultimately be affected; the cost of transporting those goods should decrease, and be reflected in the price you pay at the store.

    the second part of her plan always seems to get lost in the overall discussion by the talking heads and the obama campaign, though it's an entirely logical economic extension of it.

    i'm not sure if it's intentional, or their grasp of basic economics is so poor they completely miss that which is self-evident.

    It's intentional (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Radix on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:08:48 AM EST
    They get a twofer, they can claim it's "conservative" pandering; as well as' claiming that it deprives us of much needed revenue for the highway fund.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth, Just data to be manipulated

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    [ Parent ]

    It is absolutely intentional (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by ineedalife on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:14:40 AM EST
    In fact, if Obama had beat Clinton to the punch and announced this plan himself to neutralize McCain, everybody who is out there loudly denouncing it would be singing it's praises.

    [ Parent ]
    Regarding your 2nd point (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ben Masel on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:11:32 AM EST
    There's be a greater effect damping inflation throughout the economy from cutting the diesel tax while raising the gasoline tax. This would push refineries to shif production towards diesel, an more sustaining effect.


    Keep your eyes on November, Frodo. Don't use The Ring.
    [ Parent ]
    It's a bad idea b/c the oil companies (none / 0) (#127)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:51:28 AM EST
    won't actually pay the tax. They'll simply add it to their cost, which is paid by consumers.

    Gas will not go down under this plan. That's why it is a shell game.

    Companies don't pay taxes. Consumers do.

    [ Parent ]

    It's amazing (5.00 / 5) (#136)
    by Steve M on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:04:51 AM EST
    Before this issue came up, the only people I ever heard argue "there's no point in taxing corporations, they'll just pass the cost on to consumers" were Republicans.  In the real world, it's not nearly as simple as that.

    [ Parent ]
    No, it's not, but when you're talking about a (none / 0) (#152)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:25:35 AM EST
    90 day period, it is. They will pass it on for those 90 days.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually (none / 0) (#157)
    by Steve M on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:33:51 AM EST
    it strikes me as far less likely that a short-term tax would get passed on to consumers, but you seem awfully confident.

    [ Parent ]
    Are you saying (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Edgar08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:14:39 AM EST
    That a windfall profits tax on the oil companies is a bad idea?

    Is that what Obama is saying?

    [ Parent ]

    What I'm saying is that (1.00 / 1) (#148)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:23:26 AM EST
    prices will not go down this summer b/c of the suspension of the gas tax and putting it on oil companies.

    I'm not Obama. Do you speak for Clinton, or only say Clinton-approved opinions?

    [ Parent ]

    You are partly right and partly wrong (none / 0) (#154)
    by Edgar08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:30:45 AM EST
    Even in the studies that took place after Illinois and Indiana implemented a similiar plan, gas prices did see a decline compared to national average.   It wasn't perfectly proportional to national price fluctuations so there is some truth that the oil companies can raise prices to some degree during the holiday, but there was a also a clear gain to the consumer as well.

    [ Parent ]
    Are you really that much of a parrot? n/t (1.00 / 1) (#150)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:24:14 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Now I get it... (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by OrangeFur on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:22:02 AM EST
    When Obama ran his whole Democrats-for-a-day thing, he wasn't appealing to conservatives, he was appealing to all those liberal Republicans.

    Same when he went on FOX News, and when he praised Ronald Reagan, and when he called the GOP the party of ideas. He wasn't going after conservatives, he was going after all those liberals who watch FOX, who like Ronald Reagan, and are registered Republicans.

    Now I see that Obama would never go after conservative votes. Thanks for clearing that up, OpenLeft.

    nail on head (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by karen for Clinton on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:24:08 AM EST
    The race-baiting charge is absolutely the most offensive one.  With each new utterance of that charge since SC, I have been outraged all over again.

    And his supporters use it as a tool as well.  I've been called racist and republican without any provocation or cause.  Two heinous insults.

    What Makes a Good Political Blog? (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by santarita on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:47:44 AM EST
    Angie Koiro (sp) on Green960 in the Bay Area asked this question the other day,  For me, it is one where there is well-sourced commentary (i.e. with links to source articles and quotations) and meaningful (i.e. rational respectful and relevant) discussion.  Obviously no blog with any amount of traffic can be like that all of the time.  But when the chaff to wheat ratio exceeds 80% then it becomes a waste of time to visit that site.  What troubled me most about my former go-to sites was not just the cheerleading for one candidate (which is at least positive energy) but the destructive and irrational banter (which is simply negative energy).  And when one adds to the mix a lot of unsourced commentary and a lot of out of context, incorrect paraphrasing and twisted quotes, then it became clear that these blogs had become at best a waste of time.

    Charlie Rangel is one helluva guy. . . (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by bslev22 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:50:08 AM EST
    and he doesn't have to worry about stepping up to the plate and saying what he really feels like saying.

    BTD, I'll get over the campaign, I'll support Senator Obama with vigor if he is the nominee, but I don't think I will ever feel the same way about those whom the so-called "Left Blogs" are speaking for.  What we have seen in the blogosphere, by hosts and readers, is no different than what all of us have complained about for 20 years concerning the conduct of the radical right.  It is no different than Rush and his merry band of dittoheads.  It is only worse because we are being charged with racism for supporting a candidate other than the choice of the herd.  It's a charge that will stick with me; it is a charge I will not forget.

    Well (1.00 / 0) (#38)
    by flyerhawk on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:51:09 AM EST
    I guess we can all see what we want to see.

    I don't buy into the race baiting stuff but the other 2 points aren't too far off the mark.

    Proposing B.S. tax cuts is part and parcel of Conservative political dogma.  You know how we know this?  Because John McCain proposed the same thing as Hillary did a week before her.  The fact that she is couching it in more populist terms, without actually explaining how, doesn't make her tax cut populist unless you think that tax cuts are populist.

    Her new hostile language regarding Iran is absolutely pandering to Conservatives.  Do you know a single Liberal that feels comfortable with the phrase "Obliterate Iran"?  

    Ahem (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:54:58 AM EST
    The fact that she is couching it in more populist terms, without actually explaining how
    Actually, she does explain how: the windfall profits tax. Of course, none of this is going anywhere, but her plan is not the same as McCain's. As Paul Krugman says:
    The Clinton twist is that she proposes paying for the revenue loss with an excess profits tax on oil companies. In one pocket, out the other. So it's pointless, not evil.


    [ Parent ]
    That's all well and good (1.00 / 0) (#58)
    by flyerhawk on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:08:05 AM EST
    Except she doesn't explain how she plans on actually taxing the windfall profits from the oil companies.  Personally I think that the windfall tax is a bunch of a hooey despite the fact that Obama supports it.

    There are actual bills being proposed on the gas holiday.  Of course they haven't gone anywhere because the Democratic leadership is killing them, rightly so.

    But there isn't a thing being offered on this windfall tax idea.  

    So while her plan is ostensible different than McCain's it is only because she claims to be doing something that she hasn't actually done yet, propose a windfall tax bill.

    [ Parent ]

    It is not a separate bill (none / 0) (#70)
    by Steve M on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:14:28 AM EST
    Proposing a windfall profits tax as a separate bill would simply invite Congress to pass the McCain plan and reject the tax that pays for it.  Hillary's plan requires both.  If you want to complain that she hasn't actually introduced a bill that looks like her plan, I'm sure we can find a long, long list of plans that Senator Obama has proposed on the campaign trail but hasn't introduced in Congress.

    If your point is that we have no idea what a windfall profits tax would even look like, you'd be wrong on that; we actually had such a tax back in the 80s, and Sens. Dorgan, Boxer, and Dodd introduc