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Clinton - Obama LA Debate: Live Thread

Live Blog below the fold, online now.

I'll be starting about 7:45 pm ET. You can comment same as always in the comment section and live blog there yourselves and/or you can send me live messages through the software.

I'll put up some polls to see how you think they are doing.

I'm really curious to see how Hillary and Obama treat each other. Their position on issues is similar.

What do you expect to see tonight? Will sparks fly, will either distort the record of the other or will they keep it cordial?

< Make Or Break Debate? | Hillary on Mitt Romney >
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    Totally off topic (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by spit on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:59:37 PM EST
    but I just checked my mail, and have received my first misleading campaign flyer of the season.

    And Obama better be thankful I'm not voting right this moment, because I'm not historically a big fan of campaigns that pay the Democratic Voters Choice flyer people to make it look like they're the Party's choice. He has the little star by his name that means that his campaign paid to be on this piece of crap.

    New kind of politics indeed. %&#(@! hate these things. Hate them.

    I wish (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:04:22 PM EST
    they were standing instead of sitting.  Feels more like a debate to me that way.

    I wish they weren't quite so close though. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:12:49 PM EST
    It feels awkward to me.

    Parent
    i agree.....seems weird. (none / 0) (#23)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:15:01 PM EST
    Gives that (none / 0) (#24)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:16:04 PM EST
    illusion of UNITY witrhin the party. Hmmmm. Looks like a Dem Party against Repubs.

    Parent
    they'd be powerful running mates (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by byteb on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:17:16 PM EST


    Obama will be the winner if it continues to be (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:38:39 PM EST
    this calm and conciliatory.

    he doesnt sound (none / 0) (#53)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:43:48 PM EST
    like a change agent to me.

    Parent
    Great Debate, Obama and Hillary phenomenal, A+ (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Aaron on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:57:05 PM EST
    This is the way Democrats are supposed to operate, and we have two superior candidates running for president.  I feel good about the future of America, for the first time in a long time. It's good to be the Kings, and we Democrats definitely rule!

    I agree (none / 0) (#161)
    by BernieO on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:52:31 PM EST
    They are both so much more impressive than the Republicans are. There is just no comparison.

    Parent
    Soooo sneaky (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Nowonmai on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:59:01 PM EST
    He didn't lie though. But his "some didn't support it" comment... let's just say I am glad that she had a chance to rebut that.

    It is nice (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:04:52 PM EST
    when we hear them both beat up on the Republicans at the same time.

    Good one for Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:12:48 PM EST
    It will take another Clinton to clean up after this Bush!!!

    And a bunch of good strong Democrats (none / 0) (#111)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:14:37 PM EST
    with her. What a mess to look forward to.

    Parent
    Did she have the questions ahead (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:16:27 PM EST
    of time?  

    Parent
    I doubt it (none / 0) (#126)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:22:48 PM EST
    but that is one of the big circulations from the Obmama camp. So it was likely to come up.

    Parent
    Democrats rule (none / 0) (#165)
    by BernieO on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:59:44 PM EST
    Both of these people are head and shoulders over any Republican around. I want both of them to be president. The only way that will happen is for her to win this time, given her age. He has plenty of time. Also, I do think he would benefit from a few more years at the national level. If he gets more experience he could be one of the best presidents of all time.


    Parent
    wolf and naive (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:36:04 PM EST
    wolf shows how awful he is... again.

    Obama scores big here (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:42:36 PM EST
    Even if he wasn't in the Senate at the time, there was absolutely no reason to give the Chickenhawk in Chief carte blanche to rush in while inspections were ongoing and the UNSC hadn't 2nd-voted yet.

    Inexcusable Congressional invertebracy and failure to do their job.

    Excellent the way Hillary calmly (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:47:57 PM EST
    deflected that very personal, annoying question about Bill.  Barack of course got the softball about censorship and parenting.

    they both were amazing (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by byteb on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:54:21 PM EST


    It feels like the Super Bowl... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:38:12 PM EST
    The atmosphere outside the debates is like Sportscenter on game day.

    I think they will try to keep it cordial. If one distorts the other's record, I expect them both to get mad but try to stay in control. I think it is easier to fluster Obama (so far) in the debates than Hillary, but she's had the advantage of being pretty far ahead until tonight.

    Why won't they let Gravel play in the Superbowl? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ben Masel on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:32:45 PM EST
    They'd have to throw too many flags for (none / 0) (#33)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:34:56 PM EST
    unsportsmanlike conduct Ben. :)

    Parent
    Man, this boxing metaphor is off the charts!!! (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:40:41 PM EST
    If someone's ear doesn't get bitten off and the biter insanely laugh into the cameras, I'll feel let down.

    lol, I was thinking about boxing too. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:46:18 PM EST
    Since we are expecting fireworks, I'm sure we'll be disappointed tonight. It'll be the opposite of last time.

    Parent
    I feel like I should be making a sign that reads (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:01:56 PM EST
    ... SUCK IT REPUGS!

    Or at the very least, face painting.

    I was going to go out and tune in periodically but the weather's bad in Scenic Undisclosed Location and the excitement's infectious.

    Parent

    Hulk Hogan is endorsing Obama!!!!! (none / 0) (#5)
    by robrecht on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:49:20 PM EST
    Let's Get Ready To Rumble! (none / 0) (#6)
    by Saul on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:51:19 PM EST


    One extreme or the other (none / 0) (#7)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:52:18 PM EST
    I suppose if history is any judge, it will be either very cordial or fireworks will fly.  

    I expect Hillary to bring up the economy often as the Clinton record is obviously very good on that.  Obama's likely to bring up the war a lot and argue that he's the only one that can have a battle of ideas with McCain over Iraq.  

    West Side Story (none / 0) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:52:25 PM EST
    the Jets theme...

    there they go again (none / 0) (#9)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:59:04 PM EST
    thinking california latinos waiting for the old white guy to give them political guidance....my heavens.

    long answers (none / 0) (#27)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:25:14 PM EST
    I like hearing the details.

    I am not sure that all viewers would appreciate the long answers, from both candidates.

    Hillary looking good on (none / 0) (#28)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:26:25 PM EST
    Health Insurance... Sen Obama drops the Ted Kennedy name.... bring out big gun.

    snoozefest..... (none / 0) (#29)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:31:01 PM EST


    it;s a debate (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:37:21 PM EST
    for adults.

    Parent
    ouch. (none / 0) (#39)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:37:55 PM EST
    sorry (none / 0) (#41)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:39:18 PM EST
    but it is.  For people who want to discuss what we need to do to fix things. I am enjoying it - -although they need to mix up the topics.

    Parent
    no i know... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:42:11 PM EST
    but I do like a little drama.  :)   It's a fault of mine.

    Parent
    Obama (none / 0) (#32)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:33:45 PM EST
    drops another name- Warren Buffet

    Not going to change minds (none / 0) (#34)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:35:18 PM EST
    they are both playing to their strnegths - I think people will just go with the one they came with.

    More cash for HRC in the morning.

    PS - this is the Oscar place - the Kodak theatre. weird.
     

    And.. (none / 0) (#36)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:36:59 PM EST
    home of the American Idol finals too!  Oh, so sad I know that - but hey, we all have our guilty pleasures.

    Parent
    I wouldnt know (none / 0) (#38)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:37:49 PM EST
    I saw it once for a bit (none / 0) (#44)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:40:14 PM EST
    and thought it was vicious.  I heard that is the norm...not my thing.

    Parent
    I'm not sold on anyone yet so I want the details (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:22:27 PM EST
    I've been out of the loop and not following the poliblogs too closely other than for congressional action on issue I care most about.

    The signal to noise ratio on the Prez stuff has been so bad so far -- and understandably, the fundraising and maneouvering by the pack -- for me to follow so I'm appreciating a better look at their selling points, issue and styles.


    Parent

    crowd (none / 0) (#42)
    by lilburro on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:39:22 PM EST
    Crowd seems pretty pro Hillary...for what it's worth.

    Drew Medical Center (none / 0) (#43)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:39:41 PM EST
    Nice local LA reference from Clinton.  King Drew (King as in MLK) is a hospital that services South Central LA and has had all kinds of problems.  I guess Hillary has been talking to Maxine!

    Has Obama gone first on every question so (none / 0) (#45)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:40:37 PM EST
    far?

    no... (none / 0) (#47)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:41:46 PM EST
    ... Hillary has gone first a few times.  It has been pretty even.

    Parent
    Thanks. My mind can only remember the (none / 0) (#50)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:43:17 PM EST
    last two. :)

    Parent
    dont know (none / 0) (#49)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:42:48 PM EST
    but he seems to be talking a lot and do a lot of empty one liners to me.  Not a diss, some people prefer that...they cant follow too much depth.

    Parent
    hmmm.... (none / 0) (#52)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:43:42 PM EST
    You are watching a different debate than I am.

    I haven't seen the "empty one liners" from Obama.

    Parent

    His best debate so far. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM EST
    Agreed... (none / 0) (#57)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:45:57 PM EST
    ... and I say that as an Obama supporter who was pretty worried going into this debate.

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#65)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:48:17 PM EST
    he would have to literally throw up for him to be panned.  

    By the way, I agree it is his best...the structure here lets him talk for a very long time - oratory is his gig - in depth knowledge from which he could respond quickly is not - and that is why he failed in the past.

    Parent

    me either. (none / 0) (#55)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:45:24 PM EST
    well you are bored (none / 0) (#58)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:46:34 PM EST
    you said, so you dont count to me.

    Parent
    hmmm (none / 0) (#56)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:45:42 PM EST
    maybe his comments sounded deep to you. When I say one liners, I dont mean sarcastic jokes.  I mean one liner summaries of complex issues that are easier for people to digest than answers with a lot of info.

    Parent
    too deep? (none / 0) (#60)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:46:41 PM EST
    Not sure why you have to make a personal attack on me, just because I disagree with you.

    Parent
    I didnt say "too deep" (none / 0) (#68)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:49:10 PM EST
    and it wasnt an attack.  Relax.

    Parent
    Yea... (none / 0) (#70)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:50:38 PM EST
    ... you are right.  I read that wrong.

    Sorry...

    Parent

    thank you (none / 0) (#72)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:51:16 PM EST
    have a nice night (none / 0) (#77)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:56:10 PM EST
    enjoy

    Parent
    Judith (none / 0) (#67)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:48:40 PM EST
    The reason I have indicated I'm bored is that I know everything they are both saying.  I have read both their positions on these issues.  I feel as if I have heard/read all this before, and there are other issues I would like to be addressed - such as the impact of dynasty's in our democracy, Hillary's initial support of the war, Hillary's backing the Iran resolution, and other foreign policy arguments.  

    Not sure why you felt the need to insult me.  

    Parent

    I didt (none / 0) (#71)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:50:42 PM EST
    attack you, Please knock it off. Yiu obviously want a fight.

    I dont.  

    Parent

    have a nice night (none / 0) (#78)
    by Judith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:56:34 PM EST
    Im done for the night - enjoy.

    Parent
    interesting... (none / 0) (#46)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:41:10 PM EST
    ... the question on immigrant impact on the African American community was borderline racist.

    Those darn (none / 0) (#51)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:43:20 PM EST
    people without documentation!  Yeah, I'm sure that's what he said.

    name dropping doesn't sit well with me. (none / 0) (#59)
    by hellothere on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:46:41 PM EST


    My uncle in South Carolina voted (none / 0) (#63)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:48:04 PM EST
    for Obama last week. He doesn't like Ted Kennedy and said he would have voted differently now.

    Parent
    Obama is not gonna mention bi-partisan (none / 0) (#61)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:46:50 PM EST
    tonight without mentioning Ted first.

    Immigration more (none / 0) (#62)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:47:06 PM EST
    name dropping by Obama. I like that Hillary is standing on her own. Good for her this one. I like what she said.

    i want to hear what they are going to do (none / 0) (#64)
    by hellothere on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:48:11 PM EST
    to secure the borders.

    Good one Hillary. MIA? (none / 0) (#66)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:48:38 PM EST


    Hillary showed (none / 0) (#69)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:49:23 PM EST
    some spark right then!! Cool!

    I wish Wolf would quit interrupting Hillary. They (none / 0) (#73)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:51:44 PM EST
    are both running over in time. There's only two now so why does it matter.

    Oooh. Barack, you gave different answers too. It he ticks her off, she'll win this debate.

    I like how both the candidates are waving Wolf ... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:09:54 PM EST
    ... away like the insignificant cultural gnat that he is.

    He's there because of THEM ... not vice versa. Divo and Diva points.

    Parent

    smirk (none / 0) (#74)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:52:25 PM EST
    I have to say that I hate Hillary's smirk.  It comes across to me as really condescending.

    So does Obama's (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:54:58 PM EST
    Frankly, I think Bush and Cheney have ruined the smirk as a facial feature.  Even when I see it on politicians I like, I hate it.

    I have to say, I've been reluctant to embrace a Clinton/Obama ticket, but tonight is making me think it might be a good idea.  Between the two of them they certainly bring enough new voters to the table to be potential game changing for a long time to come.

    Parent

    obama's smirk (none / 0) (#81)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:57:14 PM EST
    That is true... but I guess I notice it more on Hillary.  I feel like she has the smirk on every one of Obama's answers.  

    Parent
    oh... (none / 0) (#84)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:58:07 PM EST
    ... and I fully admit that I may just notice it more on Hillary because of my pro-Obama bias.

    Parent
    don't talk about smirks (none / 0) (#148)
    by english teacher on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:42:42 PM EST
    unless you mention our current smirker in chief.  talk about disgusting, imho.

    Parent
    Well, condescending enough mindful. (none / 0) (#79)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:57:00 PM EST
    We probably shouldn't mention that. Wonder if Wolf will ask about the "snub". I'm sure CNN wanted more fireworks than we've seen.

    Parent
    Wow...wow (none / 0) (#76)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:55:18 PM EST
    My fantasy, Hillary in a debate with any Republican, now tell me about electability

    So far (none / 0) (#82)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:57:25 PM EST
    I'd say it's a draw.  I tend to think that helps Hillary since she's ahead in most 2/5 states.  Although to the extent she needs to stop his momentum, a tie won't.  Hmm, if only my crystal ball worked better.

    And what a difference from last night.  I'm always amazed at how much better all of the Democrats sound.  Not just because I agree with them, but because they can discuss these things in intelligent ways.  

    BDB, I think a tie goes to the challenger (none / 0) (#86)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:59:45 PM EST
    in this case. I think he's helping himself so far.

    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:05:24 PM EST
    so far there's nothing to cause anyone to change their minds.  Other than, of course, to decide to vote democratic in November!

    Parent
    Smirk/smile (none / 0) (#83)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:57:41 PM EST
    Some people have a hard time with the smile, it looks like a smirk.  If she did not "smile" people would say she was mean.  

    Excuse me (none / 0) (#87)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:59:53 PM EST
    after school  programs?  

    35 years... (none / 0) (#88)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:00:14 PM EST
    ... most of her adult career she DID work for a big time law firm.  

    Are you sure about that? (none / 0) (#92)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:03:31 PM EST
    Not that I mind lawyers. My big brother was a "trial lawyer" and defense attorney until he unexpectedly died at 42. I'm partial to defense lawyers.

    Parent
    Not 35 years (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:07:13 PM EST
    She didn't start working at the Rose Law Firm until Bill went to Little Rock and even then she did a lot of pro bono work.  

    Prior to that she worked for the Children's Defense Fund, the impeachment investigation of Richard Nixon, and then as a professor.  Of course, she also left Rose when Clinton was elected President.

    Parent

    lawyers (none / 0) (#100)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:09:10 PM EST
    I too have no problem with lawyers.

    I just found it a bit disingenuous for her to say that she didn't want to work in a law firm and then went on to work for the biggest law firm in Little Rock.

    Parent

    My CNN was still on a commercial for that (none / 0) (#89)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:01:12 PM EST
    question. It happened last debate too.

    negotiate (none / 0) (#90)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:02:04 PM EST
    Hillary never went to a foreign country as a negotiator.  

    yes she did (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by english teacher on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:40:20 PM EST
    very involved in northern ireland peace settlement. i've seen involvement described as "instrumental" there.

    Parent
    I Wouldn't Bet on That (none / 0) (#117)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:16:54 PM EST
    Relationships between countries are carried on in all kinds of ways.  It certainly is possible that Bill used her to carry a message or try to resolve some point on a trip that wasn't designed to accomplish it.

    The idea that there's some sort of "negotiator" for the United States isn't actually how it works.  Hell, I've represented the government in "negotiations" and I was a lot lower ranking than the First Lady.  Basically, any interaction can lead to substantive discussions.

    Parent

    Bah! That hit'n'run Illegal Alien comment was lame (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:02:42 PM EST
    I'm a first-gen immigrant from Yer Old Yerp in a multi-national, multi-racial border family. Our paper is nuts. My parents came over at different times and were nationalized differently.

    (My spouse loves to joke about this any time we travel or to make Some Boring Function interesting for himself. "This is my wife that I bought while traveling. Cleaned her up, taught her to speak. To use cutlery and wear shoes. Blah Blah Blah.)

    Any country has a huge floating "illegal" population because borders aren't -- as El Gringo Blingo Dobbs would have you believe -- visible, gigantic dotted lines or Checkpoint Charlie but DIRT.

    romney's investment (none / 0) (#93)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:04:07 PM EST
    Hahaha... great comment on Romney's "investment" from OBama.

    Clinton... (none / 0) (#95)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:05:06 PM EST
    ... had a good response too.

    But Obama's comment was a well-played joke off the cuff.  You don't see that too often.

    Parent

    Let's mention Ted Again (none / 0) (#98)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:08:40 PM EST
    by the way did I mention Ted?

    We have two good ones here I think. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:09:08 PM EST


    I cannot believe she brought up the (none / 0) (#102)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:11:42 PM EST
    Bush Clinton Bush Clinton crap.

    Andreww, you still here?

    And she answered it perfectly. (none / 0) (#105)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:12:20 PM EST
    hi! (none / 0) (#108)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:13:36 PM EST
    yes, i'm still here.  And I'm mad they went to commercial without Obama being able to respond to these concerns as well.

    Parent
    He'll probably respond anyway. I think (none / 0) (#114)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:16:16 PM EST
    they are ignoring Wolf and I'm glad. I don't know why he can't just let the two of them debate and stay out of it.

    Parent
    If He's Smart (none / 0) (#118)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:18:24 PM EST
    He'll leave it alone.  The point gets made by others and there's really no way for him to hit it without looking like he's piling on.  

    Parent
    I wish there was NOT an audience (none / 0) (#103)
    by ding7777 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:11:56 PM EST


    wow (none / 0) (#109)
    by lilburro on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:13:56 PM EST
    Hillary just brought down the house!  

    Parent
    How can you possibly say that? Diane Keaton (none / 0) (#110)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:14:16 PM EST
    and Rob Reiner!!!!!

    Parent
    Thank you! (none / 0) (#104)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:12:20 PM EST
    For the Dynasty question.  And really Hillary, Chelsea wouldn't have a leg up if she wanted to get into politics.  Gimme a break.

    I was waiting on you!! (none / 0) (#107)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:13:22 PM EST
    Do you like the Kennedy's though?

    Parent
    deja vu (none / 0) (#112)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:14:59 PM EST
    didn't we have this conversation already?  maybe it wasn't you, but with someone I had a something like a 15 comment conversation about why this.  Lemme see if I can link to it to save us the same conversation.

    Parent
    Wasn't me. I love the Kennedy's but I like the (none / 0) (#119)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:18:24 PM EST
    Clintons too. As a matter of fact, go Michelle!

    Parent
    Two Teresa's? (none / 0) (#120)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:19:36 PM EST
    Heres the link to the conversation - that I thought was with you.  Link

    Parent
    lol, that was me. I had no memory of that (none / 0) (#129)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:24:28 PM EST
    conversation but I still feel the same way.

    Parent
    as do i. ;) (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:25:32 PM EST
    I don't... (none / 0) (#115)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:16:23 PM EST
    ... recall a string of Kennedy's in the White House.

    I do think that the "dynasty" question is a legitimate one.  I also think that it is an issue that some (no idea how many) voters are concerned about.

    Parent

    Could've been (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:20:42 PM EST
    Robert Kennedy was assassinated in 1968.  He was the best of lot as far as I'm concerned.  And they treat Senate and Congressional seats like they own them.  Certainly, it's awkward for a guy touting the Kennedys to go after the Clintons - who are amateurs in dynasty politics compared to the Kennedys or the Bushes.  

    Parent
    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:22:33 PM EST
    And Ted ran in 1980.  I sure hope he's not advising Obama on his campaign because he took Carter all the way to the convention.  Which wasn't exactly what he needed when there was already a recession and the Iran crisis.

    Parent
    There would have been without some (none / 0) (#122)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:21:13 PM EST
    bad happenings. I would have been fine with it though I don't remember it. I just think it's silly because HC had a pretty impressive history before she met Bill. Now if you mentioned Nancy or Laura or Barbara, I'd agree. She is far more than a former First Lady.

    Parent
    I don't have as much problem with spouses (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:25:33 PM EST
    Because rumor has it, they are separate people.  Neither Clinton started out with a leg up - they built their resumes themselves.

    To me that's why they aren't a real dynasty.  Chelsea would be a dynastic candidate.  George W. Bush was dynastic.

    Having said that, I do understand the weirdness some people feel about having Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.

    Parent

    Hillary does a slam dunk with that statement (none / 0) (#113)
    by Nowonmai on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:16:15 PM EST
    oh my

    I'm sure she expected it and the response (none / 0) (#123)
    by byteb on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:21:18 PM EST
    was well crafted and well rehearsed

    Parent
    thanks wolf... (none / 0) (#127)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:23:12 PM EST
    ... why, oh why, do we need to deal with idiotic talking heads.

    Maxine is in the house! (none / 0) (#128)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:23:28 PM EST
    And looks fabulous, I must say.

    So, where is Ted tonight? (none / 0) (#132)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:27:39 PM EST
    He doesn't (none / 0) (#135)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:33:32 PM EST
    need to be there. Sen Obama just uses his name alot.

    Parent
    obama looks sleepy (none / 0) (#133)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:28:32 PM EST


    bored (none / 0) (#134)
    by byteb on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:32:40 PM EST
    If I was on his media team, I'd tell him ... (none / 0) (#160)
    by Ellie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:51:24 PM EST
    1. Sit up straight.
    2. Don't cock his head to one side
    3. Pan the audience and/or panel with his eyes when he speaks.
    4. Be "thoughtful" (or fake it) when debating the opponent.

    (Tip for anyone appearing on TV: Newbies, tape a ruler across and just under your shoulder blades to look better on camera. Keeps your shoulders square, improves your breathing and voice and it keeps you more alert. Do it until you sit / stand properly by instince.

    You express more naturally with body language too -- eg, hand gestures, personality == and it projects better.)

    Parent

    Dunno (none / 0) (#136)
    by Nowonmai on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:33:45 PM EST
    "Obama says It's better to have a candidate who was opposed from the beginning."

    I would prefer someone who can admit that after getting more information is willing to change her mind and not 'stay the course' because doing something else would admit mistake.

    except.... (none / 0) (#137)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:35:29 PM EST
    ... she won't admit it was a mistake.

    and i would rather have a person who didn't make a mistake in the first place.

    Parent

    mindful read my mind. (none / 0) (#139)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:36:27 PM EST
    Short memories (none / 0) (#140)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:37:52 PM EST
    about the atmosphere of the time...such as against Iraq- not patriotic. Also She represents the people and PEOPLE wanted the war.... because they were ied to.

    Parent
    atmosphere (none / 0) (#142)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:39:32 PM EST
    obama had the same atmosphere, and he chose to speak out against a very popular war.  

    Parent
    What was he risking? (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:42:01 PM EST
    Nothing, when he was in the Senate he could have supported Murtha with the pull outs, but he did not.  This is such a non issue, one man says when he was not in the Senate he opposed it, yet it was not the same playing field.  The question is would he have been one of the lone voices to vote against it, NO.  

    Parent
    Well No (5.00 / 0) (#166)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:03:26 PM EST
    No airplanes flew into  buildings in Illinois.  

    Parent
    Obama spoke out against (none / 0) (#150)
    by ding7777 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:44:08 PM EST
    gambling but pressed the "wrong button" for it.

    Parent
    Then (none / 0) (#151)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:44:57 PM EST
    he ignored the will of the people he was serving.

    Age old argument about where does change start.. with the people of the pol?

    Obama beleives it start with the people (MLK example) and Clinton believes it start with the pol (MLK example) ... but the Iraq war was the opposite. Go figure!

    Parent

    In a perfect world (none / 0) (#145)
    by Nowonmai on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:41:47 PM EST
    No one makes erroneous choices with incomplete information.

    But if one is willing to change stance once the correct information is presented, that is a better person than one who will keep flogging the dead horse.

    Parent

    she needs to say (none / 0) (#141)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:37:53 PM EST
    he was not in the Senate, he was in his mind.

    in his mind? (none / 0) (#143)
    by mindfulmission on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:39:55 PM EST
    what the heck does that even mean?

    Parent
    he was just (none / 0) (#149)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:43:04 PM EST
    talking...in his mind he lusted that he would vote against it...

    Parent
    Obama supporter (none / 0) (#152)
    by magster on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:45:41 PM EST
    One thing I wanted to have happen tonight was to feel better about voting for Hillary in November, and I do.

    The Iraq stuff has made me realize why I support Obama.

    Stylistically, Hillary needs to stop talking until she's cut off.  Otherwise, this has been a great debate.

    Likewise magster. I have more (none / 0) (#157)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:50:08 PM EST
    confidence in Obama after tonight. Less unity stuff. Maybe Ted's getting through to him? I'd love to see the two of them on the same ticket.

    Parent
    The Bill question. I thought they were going (none / 0) (#154)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:46:28 PM EST
    to skip that and I should have known better.

    They really are a dream ticket. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Teresa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:47:58 PM EST


    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:51:13 PM EST
    It just seems like have the party would think the ticket was upside down no matter who was at the top of the ticket.

    I don't think Obama would pick Hillary.  I think she would pick him.

    Parent

    Hard to imagine Hillary picking Barack (none / 0) (#158)
    by brodie on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:51:10 PM EST
    as her VP.  They aren't the best of friends.  Of course, it's possible it could be necessary.  And she has very limited range in re finding an AA to run with, should that angle be required.

    wouldn't it be great (none / 0) (#162)
    by andreww on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:53:14 PM EST
    to know what they say to each other in the moments after the debate...

    Obama's Iraq position is he spoke out (none / 0) (#164)
    by ding7777 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:57:38 PM EST
    against it 2002

    He also spoke out against gambling and then pressed the "wrong button" for the gambling measure (it passed)

    This whole debate was (none / 0) (#167)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:18:21 PM EST
    a show of what a great joint ticket they would make.

    Comments closing here, come on over to our post-debate thread.

    I have always believed (none / 0) (#168)
    by BernieO on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:25:57 PM EST
    that a vote against the Iraq resolution would have sent Saddam a message that he had free rein. That was the only way to get the inspectors back in. Most people I know wanted the inspectors to go back.
    What bothers me is that Bush has said over and over by saying Saddam threw the inspectors out, which was a huge lie which he is still repeating. I wish Hillary had pointed that out. Also I think she should have said the mistake she made was to trust Bush. He assured her and others that he would exhaust all diplomatic means and he did not. She publicly said that the resolution was not permission for a preemptive war.
    If you watched the interview with Saddam's interrogator on CBS he admitted that he had deliberately given the impression that he still had WMD in order to intimidate Iran. So for our leaders to think he had them was not farfetched.


    questions ahead (none / 0) (#169)
    by tek on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 08:38:01 AM EST
    Of course Obama's campaign had to start a rumor that she had the questions ahead of the debate because they knew he could not stand up to her debating skills and they have to deflect it somehow.

    This is the very thing I hate about Obama and his campaign. He talks about having integrity and being a different kind of politician and running a positive campaign, but you'd have to be completely unaware to believe that's what he's doing. He's been down in the dirt since it all started. It appears to me that Obama consistently says one thing and does the opposite. Very troubling.

    I'm glad the debate went well and the animosity is quelled, but I will never look on the Democratic Party quite the same after seeing what they've done to a former First Lady who is the undisputed choice of a majority of Democrats in this campaign.

    undisputed? (none / 0) (#170)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:13:54 AM EST
    lets way to see until the primaries are finished before we talk about who is the undisputed choice.