So what Klein is saying is that, in essence, Clinton and Obama are being dishonest in their votes in favor of the Reid-Feingold framework.

Did Klein say they were being "dishonest"? NO. He said:

Despite their votes, each of those politicians believes the war must be funded.

Which votes in "Despite their votes" is he talking about? Well obviously the last votes casted in which each of the three voted no on the bill to fund until September.

And the he says: "Despite their votes each...believes the war must be funded." Well that is true as all three in the past have consistently voted to fund the war. Which means they DO think the war should be funded and according to Klein they were somewhat forced to vote no on the last bill because of the base. That may be partly true. And it is also partly true that all Dem candidates run Left and vote Left during the primary season and then veer center when they win the nomination. It is also probably partly true that they could make those no votes with little consequence because the bill was going to pass anyway without their yes votes.

Now as for Reid-Feingold Klein didn't specifically mention the Reid-Feingold Bill that both Obama and Clinton voted in favor of. And he sure didn't mention a Reid-Feingold FRAMEWORK which is not a bill at all. And he didn't mention any other bill that would fund up to a date certain without saying that is the last funding there will be. Nor did he mention any other bill that would fund up to a date certain and actually say that is the last funding there will be.

So given that the facts are pretty clear as I summarized above I don't see where either Obama or Clinton have to answer anything. Klein certainly isn't asking them to. And the question as Armando puts forth asks about the Reid-Feingold FRAMEWORK - and on the Hill there is no such thing being considered.

Sure one could ask them about the Reid-Feingold BILL. But what for? Their votes on that are a matter of record. Or one could ask them about their recent vote. That might be interesting on how they answered although I think Obama has already and I'm not sure about Clinton.

But Reid-Feingold FRAMEWORK? I'm sure one would get a blank stare as each of them would have no idea what the questioner was talking about.

I think these two candidates need to respond to this assertion from the Time columnist.

We must fund our troops. But we owe them something more. We owe them a clear, prudent plan to relieve them of the burden of policing someone else's civil war.

We should not give the President a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path.

With my vote today, I am saying to the President that enough is enough. We must negotiate a better plan that funds our troops, signals to the Iraqis that it is time for them to act and that begins to bring our brave servicemen and women home safely and responsibly.

Klein took Obama's unremarkable statement that the troops in the field need to be funded and turned it into a willingness to prolong the war by funding it without a plan to end it.

Ok.  I have tried to express this many times.  Sometimes i have done so badly.  Sometimes i have done so better than others.

There were 2 ways to support Reid/Feingold.

1.  As the implimentation of the Date Certain/Defunding scenario.

2.  As a way to ratchet up pressure.

when two heroes who are right about everything else.  i don't know about anyone else, but when two heroes who have been right about everything else say something i disagree with, that doesn't make me lash out and scream "Right wing talking point.  Right wing Talking point."  when two heroes who have been right about everything else disagree with me, that makes me rethink my position.  maybe that makes me weak.  

who knows?

ok.  so we know no. 1 will divide Democrats.  if one is interested in dividing democrats and implementing primaries on democrats, and using sticks that won't make manifest any results until you can run those primaries, then no. 1 is why you supported reid/feingold.

now there was a second reason to support reid/feingold and if anyone wanted to look closely at obama's and clinton's reasons for supporting reid/feingold you will find them.  ratchet up pressure.  take the next step.  remain united.  what happens ultimately as far as the date certain is concerned was less important than keeping pressure on the white house.

in this respect, in the end, what very few people are willing to realize is this was Reid's fault.

Reid wanted to have it both ways.  It is Reid who should have made it clear what the vote meant and what it did not mean.  It is Reid who should have gone to people like Webb and Tester, Casey and mcgaskill and make the case that this is the next step in ratcheting up pressure.

Joke Line is wrong and a dipsh*t for re-interpretting Obama's and clinton's statements to suit his rhetorical goals, (and so are bloggers who have done the same thing in the past), clinton and obama are not trying to fund the war.

but they were not trying to restrict funding for the military either.

i'm sorry this is so unclear for so many people.

but i'll finish this by saying i believe reid himself is of the obama/clinton camp on this issue.  NOT the feingold camp.  his mistake must have been his belief that dems not on the feingold bandwagon would at least unite behind the second rationale for supporting reid/feingold.

it was a miscalculation on this part.

either that or he let the episode play out in a way to defnitively resolve it.  we now know that reid/feingold is a non-starter in the democratic party.  not a party that will hope to retain the loyalties of the new crop of dems who won't support it.

i know BTD is more interested in ending the war than the fate of the democratic party.  that's an admirable position to take on this issue.

it is my opinion a democratic party split in two on this issue will help republicans regain their majority much faster and that will lead to even more death and destruction.

i know the polling doesn't support my position on this for the time being, but my position is based on a long term outlook.