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Did AP Stretch Traditional Notions Of Objectivity When It Repeated Giuliani Talking Points?

The AP "reported" the following:

Olbermann’s popularity and evolving image as an idealogue has led NBC News to stretch traditional notions of journalistic objectivity.

This line in an AP news article is, in itself, stretching traditional notions of journalistic objectivity past the breaking report. This sentence is an opinion, namely, the opinion of the Giuliani campaign repeated as a fact by an AP news report. It also misspells the word ideologue.

Can the Associated Press, after this egregious breach of journalistic ethics, continue to cover the Giuliani Presidential campaign?

Of course it can. It screwed up. It should admit its error and move on. Keith Olberman, by the way, did not screw up. He labelled his Special Comment um, a special comment, not news. AP did not label its editorializing as opinion. The AP needs a lesson in journalism it seems to me.

Finally, for the record, a lot of journalists give their opinions. It is a bad thing imo. It makes them famous, always bad for reporters. But the AP may consider whether it is just as bad when other journalists, including their own, engage in punditry and pontification when the decide to criticque Keith Olberman.

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  • Display: Sort:
    there are 'journalistic ethics' somewhere? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by seabos84 on Sat May 05, 2007 at 05:08:10 PM EST
    believe it or not, I'm not trying to be snide or snotty or snarky

    I remember the NYT and various media bleating incessantly that Carter was 'weak' back before big daddy RayGun beamed into the casa blanca with his back-to-the-50's nonsense.  

    is it despicable? yeah.

    i'm at a loss for figuring out what to do.  it is great that there is instant exposure of their corporate fat class lies,

    and ignoring the lies is stupid (see Dukakis 1988, Kerry 2004, Presidential Election)

    but

    what to do for us peeeee-ons?

    rmm.

    It's hard to believe that the article (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Teresa on Sat May 05, 2007 at 05:14:33 PM EST
    compared MSNBC unfavorably to Fox News because Fox separates their opinion people from their news people. Huh? Doesn't Brit Hume anchor their coverage?

    Objectivity (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Alien Abductee on Sat May 05, 2007 at 05:48:52 PM EST
    I've been reading Darrell M. West's The Rise and Fall of the Media Establishment (you can read most of the book's intro at amazon). His thesis is that the American media has passed through five distinct cycles since its inception - summary here:

     The Partisan Media (1790-1840)
     The Commercial Media (1840-1920)
     The Objective Media (1920-1970)
     The Interpretative Media (1970-1980)
     The Fragmented Media (1990-?)

    and that it appears we're heading into Partisan Media redux. The GOP's forays into paying journalists and giving exclusive scoops to Drudge and Fox are some of the more blatant moves in that direction.

    The interesting point is that in the partisan era journalists, says West, had no credibility. No one took anything they said with anything but a grain of salt and recognized everyone was writing as a partisan. Some 80% of newspapers were directly supported by a particular political party, and the few that weren't covered strictly non-political topics (like farming, that at the time I suppose hadn't yet been politicized). If you wanted to know what was actually going on, you had to read multiple sources with different perspectives. Sounding a bit familiar already?

    It seems the mischief that's done by articles like this one from AP is that people read them still expecting the professional objectivity of The Objective Media when it's as a general rule long gone. It's much less harmful if it's read simply as partisan promotion and given a slap-back from the opposite partisan point of view.

    It seems to me it might be time to give up pushing the media to display objectivity and instead start labeling the media partisanship that's becoming more and more evident.  

    AP can join Republican pundit Bill O'Reilly, Republican radio personality Rush Limbaugh, Republican TV network Fox, etc as labeled as what they are.

    Interestingly, if what West says is correct, once the labeling of newspapers in the original Partisan Era began, they quickly balanced out from heavily Federalist to virtually equal over a period of ten years.


    Absolutely! (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Freewill on Sat May 05, 2007 at 05:58:33 PM EST
    It was the same type of Corporate Interest Government that gave the AP exclusive, monopoly type power to use the telegraph lines thus eliminating any type of dissenting reports from competitive news organizations.

    Just a hunch but maybe the AP is paying homage to its parental creators!

    Excellent post Alien Abductee!

    Parent

    Much To Do About Nothing (2.00 / 1) (#5)
    by talex on Sat May 05, 2007 at 06:54:43 PM EST
    Olberman is not an ideologue (correct alternate spelling btw) on his commentaries? Of course he is and I love it.

    The article did have some balance to it I think. For example:

    Olbermann knows to leave his opinions at home when he anchors events, said Phil Griffin, NBC News senior vice president.

    "Keith's an adult," Griffin said. "He can tell when it's appropriate to express himself in a commentary and when to be a journalist. That's one of his strengths. He knows exactly the tone and his role when he's doing anything."

    So there is some defense for him by the NBC VP.

    And then to put things in perspective and add more balance to the article:

    Questions about the objectivity of television news personalities have been around as long as there was a TV set to yell back at. Now we're in an era where anchors blog, they emote, they lift the curtain to expose how their shows operate.

    So here the article say this kind of thing is old news in a new era.

    "It's a different world," Griffin said, "and I think Keith has mastered this world better than anybody."

    The popularity of Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck on CNN alone illustrates how opinion has become more important on cable news. A general public that laughs at Jon Stewart's take on the news has probably become accustomed to a point of view, said Mark Jurkowitz, associate director of the Project for Excellence in Journalism.


    Again here the article even points out others who do what KO does. So they are not hanging him out to dry alone.

    "I wonder, candidly, how many people parse the ethics on this anymore, other than people in the industry," he said.

    Clearly there's a taste in America for both a partisan and nonpartisan press. The middle ground is where it gets tricky.

    Yeah there is a taste for it and the article does not hide it. In fact the title of the article points no fingers - it asks a question and then lets the NBC VP answer it:
    Can Keith Olbermann straddle the line between news and opinion?

    Asked and answered.

    So it was not a total hatchet job.

    And in fact when people do what Olberman does magnificently it is to be expected in todays press that there is mention of it. Some people see that as criticism. Others call it Free Publicity.

    Parse a line here and there and you can call it bad. Take the article in it's entirety and it is pretty balanced - mentions commentators from both sides - says this topic is as old as the hills - and has NBC stand up for KO.

    No Harm - No Foul

    Foolish of you (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 05, 2007 at 07:24:59 PM EST
    Quoting the NBC guy defending the NBC guy is objective rpeorting to you while reporting as fact what I quote above and then repoting as fact this:

    Having Olbermann anchor as he will continue, with Matthews, for big political nights throughout the campaign is the MSNBC equivalent of Fox News Channel assigning the same duties to O'Reilly.

    Fox has never done that, perhaps mindful of the immediate controversy that would result. Fox has tried to differentiate between its news operation and its prime-time opinion shows, even as its critics believe strongly that's bunk. In this case, MSNBC doesn't try to separate news and opinion people, even as it tries to separate news and opinion.

    Your worst comment that I have ever read.

    You must be kidding with that one.

    Just a ridiculous comment.

        "We're not hiding from it," Griffin said. "We're saying he can do both."


    Parent

    To Be Honest (none / 0) (#10)
    by talex on Sat May 05, 2007 at 08:03:51 PM EST
    The article itself was a little opinionated as more and more are beginning to be. So be it - it's been getting that way for a while now and most people can separate facts from opinion.

    Now if you don't call including an actual quote objective reporting I don't know what to say to you. I guess in your world actual quotes are no longer objective? They seemed objective earlier when you used one of Rahms. What's the deal with that. Then a quote was very objective! Ha Ha.

    If anyone is not being objective here it is you - selectively using quotes as objective when they suit you and saying they are not objective when they don't. Preposterous!

    Just a ridiculous comment.

    "We're not hiding from it," Griffin said. "We're saying he can do both."


    There you go again cherry picking. He did say more that that in the article and I included those quotes. He stood up for KO is the point and the article included that standing up in it which is the other point. That's called balance.

    It was not a total hatchet job as you read for yourself. But as I said - parse a sentence from the artice and you can make it a hatchet job - but the article was more than a sentence long - Oops!

    Parent

    You seem not to understand the problem (none / 0) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 05, 2007 at 08:22:50 PM EST
    Includng the quotes from NBC is necessary for an objectiver report, but not sufficient.

    NOT reporting opinion as fact is also required.

    The second set of quotes I gave you include not only opinions, but falsehoods about Fox News.

    Truly you have no understanding of my point and strsngely, it bothers me not at all.

    Or not so strangely. Your comment was exposed as selective and rather beside the point.

    I exposed that. Your bristling reply, a nonsequitor if ever there was one, is proof that your "Argument" such as it was, was empty.

    Parent

    Progress (none / 0) (#12)
    by talex on Sat May 05, 2007 at 09:23:23 PM EST
    Then:
    Quoting the NBC guy defending the NBC guy is objective reporting to you

    And Now:
    Includng the quotes from NBC is necessary for an objectiver report

    Onward and Forward:

    NOT reporting opinion as fact is also required

    What part of the quote when including ALL of the short paragraph was not fact?

    I believe I already explained it was fact but perhaps you need to say why is wasn't instead of just 'saying' it wasn't.

    You know counselor, saying someone is guilty does not cut it. You have to make a case. In this case the defense (that would be me) has presented it's case before the prosecution so this should be real easy for you.

    Now which part of the quote when included with the entire paragraph (i.e. in context) was not a fact?


    Parent

    I have quoted the problematic paragraphs (none / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 05, 2007 at 09:49:04 PM EST
    If it is your opinion that what is stated there is facts then I have nothing left to discuss with you.

    Have a nice night.

    Parent

    He Dropped His Case... (none / 0) (#14)
    by talex on Sat May 05, 2007 at 10:23:25 PM EST
    due to insufficient evidence.

    The defense will not pursue charges of withholding evidence by the prosecution in initially bringing the case. But Shame Shame On Ya.

    The defense would also like to enter into the record that the only opinion here was that of the prosecution. Any argument made by the defense was fact based on fact.

    Have a nice night yer-self.

    De La Hoya by KO


    Parent

    If you believe that (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:54:35 AM EST
    then you are a bigger fool than I thought.

    I do not pursue fruitless discussions.

    Parent

    Kidding? (1.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Tom Maguire on Sat May 05, 2007 at 07:33:58 PM EST
    Olbermann is not an ideologue?  Give us a break.

    If Bill O'Reilly hosted a Democratic debate lefties would fall down weeping.  Of course, how could he with Dems boycotting Fox?  Regardless, the idea that Olbermann can be passed off as just another objective newsman who only loathes Republicans when he is doing his special comment is absurd, as anyone with half a shred of intellectual honesty and consistency could recognize.

    Who will the next moderator be - Paul Krugman?

    That's not the issue (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 05, 2007 at 07:56:38 PM EST
    And of course that is your opinion. NOt a fact, an opinion. Reporting opinions as facts is the issue here.

    But the question you might want to answer is is Brit Hume an ideologue?

    The GOP can choose to not go on MSNBC if it so chooses but let's be clear then, Brit Hume should never have been a questioner in a political debate by that measure.

    I don't recall anyone ever saying that.


    Parent

    In cvase you are not aware of this (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 05, 2007 at 07:59:01 PM EST
    Not only has Brit Hume been a questioner in a Presidential debate, so has Fred Barnes.

    In cae you are not aware, Brit Hume was a questioner in a DEMOCRATIC Presidential debate.

    Did you complain then? of course not.

    Bill O'Reilly is unqualified to do something like that, in my opinion, because he is a buffon, not because he is an ideologue.

    Parent

    no wonder AP can call Olberman an ideologue (none / 0) (#15)
    by AlanDownunder on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:47:24 AM EST
    AP hasn't a clue what an ideologue is. They can't even spell the word. Olberman's criticisms of the Bush administration have been about honesty and competence - bipartisan virtues, not ideological dogma.