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From Pet Food to Chicken

Yesterday I stopped at the organic grocery and bought a plump free-range organic chicken to make chicken soup. I made it tonight, and while cooking it, happened across this:

About 20 million chickens being raised for human consumption in several states ate feed made with melamine-tainted pet food and are being held from market to keep them from entering the food supply, Agriculture Department officials said last night.

The agency called for the "voluntary hold" late yesterday, pending completion of a government risk analysis to determine whether the animals would be safe for people to eat.

I'm tempted to throw the whole thing down the garbage disposal. Then again, I hate giving in to fear. Does anyone know if organic chickens are given feed made with pet food? And what exactly is an "organic chicken" other than it's free to run around and not be penned in?

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    Also slightly OT but excellent (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat May 05, 2007 at 11:42:29 AM EST
    is "Tales of a Shaman's Apprentice", by Mark Plotkin. In it, Plotkin notes an observation by another botanist, Edgar Anderson, in awe of the efficiency of an indian garden in Guatemala in the 1800's:

    "In terms of our American and European equivalents the garden was a vegetable garden, an orchard, a medicinal plant garden, a rubbish heap, a compost heap, and a bee yard. There was no problem of erosion though it was at the top of a steep slope; the soil surface was pracically all covered and apparently would be during most of the year. Humidity would be kept up during the dry season and plants of the same sort were so isolated frome one another by intervening vegetation that pests and diseases could not readily spread from plant to plant."

    US and transnational agricultrual corporations and food processors, and their employees in the US government tell us how benevolent and efficient they are. They are efficient because they lie to the american consumers. By this deception, corporate agriculture cheated the american farmers, who ironically had genocidally eliminated their more efficient predecessors the american indians, out of the land.

    Now you know how. We blindly trusted them. We let them reap their profits as a natural progression of capitalism. They cared only about money and power, and not about health and safety, unless it threatened their profits. Now because we dare to control them they are pulling out and poisoning other countries at a much cheaper labor cost.  That is OUR chief export. This was massivley enabled by NAFTA and CAFTA.

    Meanwhile through Lou Dobbs and the Minutemen the government tells us to blame the immigrants whose farms and jobs have been stolen by our global terrorism.

    Che - Your author (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:38:10 AM EST
    is full of mud.

    who ironically had genocidally eliminated their more efficient predecessors the american indians, out of the land.

    The american indians were, basically, hunter/gathers. This limited the size of the tribe, and caused great hardship and death during times of climate extremes.

    BTW - Do you teach in a university/college/jr. college??

    [ Parent ]

    Expert? (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:55:07 AM EST
    Considering your position that the Native Americans got what they deserved: genocide brought on because of they were an inferior race, you have little ground to question others scholarship on the issue.

    [ Parent ]
    Squeaky smears (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 11:09:22 AM EST
    I see that you are still busy smearing.

    But then you did write:


    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM

    Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.



    [ Parent ]
    Smear (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sun May 06, 2007 at 11:26:16 AM EST
    First off you are consciously lying and attempting to smear by once again quoting me out of context. I never would emulate your idol Rove. You are the one who loves him and his direct line to Goebbbels methods.

    Secondly, If you think I am misrepresenting your views about the demise of Native Americans aka genocide, correct me.

    [ Parent ]

    Squeaky - Show some proof. (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 01:32:32 PM EST
    On the internet it is usually considered to be that the person making the point provide some proof.

    You are the attacker/smearer.

    I am the attackee.

    So. Show some proof.

    [ Parent ]

    Squeaky - BTW (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 01:33:54 PM EST
    BTW - Are you also saying that NA's were not generally hunter/gathers??

    [ Parent ]
    Jim (none / 0) (#37)
    by Peaches on Mon May 07, 2007 at 11:16:11 AM EST
    There were Native American Hunter and Gatherers and there were Native American Agricultural tribes.

    There were agricultural communities throughout North America that supported large populations and urban societies. The agricultural tribe were decimated by the arrival of Europeans. European diseases was primarily responsible for the rapid deterioration of  many of these societies. The Hunter and gatherers were the last tribes remaining on the continent and received the most attention as well as study. However, they were not the most numerous at the time of the European arrivals according to some. (Kirkpatrick Sales and Jared Diamond come immediately to mind, but there are other sources as well. Of course, both of us know the joys of many of the good foods and products first developed by Native Americans-- beans, corn, tomatoes, peppers, squash, pumpkins, melons, the list goes on)

    [ Parent ]

    Peaches (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:00:11 PM EST
    I agree that some were not. I don't agree that most were not.

    BTW - Many native peoples clear some land, plant a crop, gather it and move on....That's a "hunter/gatherer" in my book.

    [ Parent ]

    Natural Selection at Work (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:55:28 PM EST
    Re: Native Americans Exploited Again (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 09:50:34 AM EST
    .....Now a fact. I am not responsible for it. As to my "culture," if you are referring to "western" culture and that includes modern Japan, I again agree that it has many problems. So what? It is the most advanced the world has ever known, provides more material goods, recreational time, medicene, etc. for more people than any other culture in the history of the world. And it continues to improve.....

    .....That the NA did not is easy to understand. They were cut off from the rest of the world. And they didn't have horses and they didn't have the wheel.

    Re: Native Americans Exploited Again (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 03:26:24 PM EST

    And why would anyone disagree? About "people" that is. Cultures are entirely different. Are you claiming all are equal?

    link

    Think of what would have happened to western civilization if we hadn't slaughtered the Native Americans.

    Others have argued a case for natural selection to justify genocidal acts.  We have our own homegrown version  of that here in America.

    [ Parent ]

    Squeaky - Here is the whole quote (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 12:26:14 AM EST
    And here is a real live working link. Not the phony non-working one you show.

    Now, your claim was that I was for genocide of NAs. Here is the complete quote you use as a partial.

    punisher - I wait with baited breath the correction by the Washinton Post, not a left of center blog. Sorry, but you wouldn't accept Power Line. Johnny writes:

    "....prior to the "civilization" and "enlightenment" of this continent, people here as a whole were healthier, happier, taller..."

    Do you have a reputable source for this claim? And the ones you provide are well.... let me be kind... highly suspect. ;-) Sorry, but when you show these as "proof," I have to laugh or cry.

    (From Johnny)"They only cared what they did."

    So? Johnny, ample evidence shows that various tribes, etc., moved due to pressure from other tribes, fought wars, etc.

    (Johnny writes) "You do not address the consequences of your culture"

    Johnny, you are having problems understanding that I have not defended what the Europeans did to the NA's. Bad. Terrible. Awful. Now a fact. I am not responsible for it. As to my "culture," if you are referring to "western" culture and that includes modern Japan, I again agree that it has many problems. So what? It is the most advanced the world has ever known, provides more material goods, recreational time, medicene, etc. for more people than any other culture in the history of the world. And it continues to improve. The "hunter/gather" society that you idolize never existed as you see it. The proof is simple. In other parts of the world, it changed over the centuries. Oh there were ups and downs and back and forth, but the trend was always away from the wonderful things you see in a typical NA tribe. That the NA did not is easy to understand. They were cut off from the rest of the world. And they didn't have horses and they didn't have the wheel. Johnny, read "The Contested Plains," "Guns, Germs and Steel," The Axemakers Gift," and "A World Lit Only By Fire." They are much more informative and accurate than the "Green University."

    Thanks for proving my point, and proving your smearing claim, wrong.

    You know squeaky, you can't lay a hand on me with such worthless charges. When you make partial quotes and try to be cute by leaving unworking links I can run you down in a heart beat and show the world that your comment about Rove truly showed how you operate.

    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM

    Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.



    [ Parent ]
    Now, let's look at your other quote.. (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 12:39:53 AM EST
    To understand it, you have to go to SUO's quote at
    1:25

    Re: Native Americans Exploited Again (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 01:25:28 PM EST

    PPJ, for me, all human beings are fundamentally the same - good, bad, and in-between - be they NA, European, conservative, liberal, blah blah, blah blah blah blah. For any one person to truly feel his particular "brand" of human beings is inherently better than another is such poppycock and so blatently hypocritical on so many levels, that it leaves me speechless.

    Re: Native Americans Exploited Again (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 01:48:17 PM EST

    Nicely put, Sarc...

    Re: Native Americans Exploited Again (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 03:26:24 PM EST

    And why would anyone disagree? About "people" that is. Cultures are entirely different. Are you claiming all are equal?

    And then on down to

    :

    Native Americans Exploited Again (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 05:33:14 PM EST

    Sorry Sarc, cold weather makes my old bones ache... But I must disagree, to a point. Perhaps the capacity is the same, but the capabilitiy, or perhaps probablity would be better, is much higher in non-democratic societies. i.e. The ME as a whole. Red China. North Korea. From the past, the Soviets, Germany WWII, Japan WWII, southern slave states, etc. jondee - Sorry little one, TL requests that we don't so it will just have to be jondee and ppjakajim. Now, are you claiming that the US as a society, or the west as a culture, isn't better now than they were in the past? Remember that no matter how much you dislike Bush, he will forever be between Clinton and whoever comes next.

    And I stand behind my comments today, just as I did then.


    [ Parent ]

    Natural Selection at Work (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by squeaky on Mon May 07, 2007 at 11:02:36 AM EST
    And ppj lies again.

    [ Parent ]
    He sure (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Mon May 07, 2007 at 11:08:54 AM EST
    spends a lot of time having to try to explain away himself and his comments..........

    [ Parent ]
    edher and squeaky (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:55:54 PM EST
    No, I spend a fair amount of time dispelling the lies you and Squeaky write about what I didn't say.

    And I do it by taking what I have said, and providing it in quotations with links.

    BTW - How'd you like Squeaks little trick of the non-working link, giving the casual reader the feeling that his quotes were accurate and in context.

    Pretty scuzzy, eh?? Makes you think someone would also...

    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM

    Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.



    [ Parent ]
    Liar PPJ (none / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:01:51 PM EST
    Another ppj lie. Out of cotext quote with no link.

    ppj wannabe Rover. Sad to pathetic.


    [ Parent ]

    squaky is caught (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:04:18 PM EST
    Oh. The link was working??

    No??!!

    LOL. You've been caught, again.

    [ Parent ]

    organic?!? (none / 0) (#1)
    by manish on Fri May 04, 2007 at 11:56:29 PM EST
    Organic can mean so many different things.  Sometimes its that they get to run around, others its what they are fed, whether they see daylight, etc.  I would call the company that produced your chicken and ask them if they are affected.

    "organic" might be slippery - in Seattle (none / 0) (#2)
    by seabos84 on Fri May 04, 2007 at 11:57:53 PM EST
    I've been buying at organic farmer's markets for ... 10? 12 ?? years.

    some years back some of the farmer's I yak with talked about ... usda ? watering down the definition of 'organic' so ...

    ADM and Monsanto could continue dumping barrels of their high priced crap on our food?

    pardon the hyperbole and the imprecision, but

    where I shop in happy happy nicey nice seattle I ain't worried that the organic stuff is fed 'organic monsanto glow-in-the-dark-goo', or whatever fancy name liars want to put on their toxic crap.

    I don't have confidence in the Safeway / Kroger big company claims of organic, but, my distrust of them stems from a LOT more than some random conversations I had in a Seattle farmer's market somewhere between 5 or 10 years ago.

    I should run for office, the "i don't recall' thing is true for me!

    good luck, ;)

    rmm.

    I agree, source makes a big difference (none / 0) (#4)
    by conchita on Sat May 05, 2007 at 12:53:00 AM EST
    I'd head to Whole Paycheck or a trustworthy farmer's market.  

    In layman's terms organic usually means not fed antibiotics nor feed that has been grown with pesticides or is gm.

    Something to keep in mind: the most important organic item in your diet is eggs.

    The irony of all of this for me is that my dog is fed poached chicken.  All these weeks I thought she was safe from the melamine and now I wonder if I haven't been poisoning her since she has not always been eating organic chicken.  Arrgh!

    [ Parent ]

    Organic Standard (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sat May 05, 2007 at 12:04:53 AM EST

    What do the national organic regulations include?

    As promised by USDA, the regulations:
    prohibit the use of irradiation, sewage sludge, or genetically modified organisms in organic production;
    reflect NOSB recommendations concerning items on the national list of allowed synthetic and prohibited natural substances;
    prohibit antibiotics in organic meat and poultry; and
    require 100% organic feed for organic livestock.

    link

     

    irony (none / 0) (#5)
    by chemoelectric on Sat May 05, 2007 at 02:20:16 AM EST
    Ironically, melamine is used to make the melamine resin used in spoons and kitchen utensils. Go figure.

    I doubt the chicken would sicken you, but the only thing you'll lose is some chicken, if you are too worried.

    To me ostrich tastes a lot better, anyway. :)

    I think organic chickens are simply non-inorganic chickens; inorganic chickens are made from inorganic chemicals and taste like dirty salt laced with iron filings and powdered sulfur.

    Two books you want to read... (none / 0) (#6)
    by mattd on Sat May 05, 2007 at 05:17:21 AM EST
    ...if you're concerned about this, are What to Eat by Marion Nestle (available in paperback as of three weeks ago) and The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan.  If you have time to read only one, read What to Eat.  It's fantastic - it includes definitions for all of these "organic" terms and similar ones designed to confuse you like "natural" and "free-range."  I'd quote from it, but apparently I loaned my copy to someone.

    For a definition of "organic poultry," look at this page (search for the second occurence of "poultry").  If your chicken was certified USDA Organic, chances are pretty good it didn't get any of the tainted food, because "organic chicken" must be fed organic feed, which in turn must be made from organic ingredients.  "Imported Chinese wheat gluten" should not meet any definition of "organic," and therefore shouldn't make it into organic feed or organic livestock (including poultry).

    Nestle's book contains results of testing some of these things, but IIRC, the bottom line was that if a food has the USDA Organic logo on it, it's overwhemingly probable that it meets every requirement of that label, despite minimal enforcement by the USDA.  For other organic-sounding words, you're on your own.

    A few years ago (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat May 05, 2007 at 10:40:21 AM EST
    I stopped eating poultry and meat and now live mostly on grains (granolas and "The Grainful" bread), peanut butter made by my grocer by grinding organic peanuts, fresh vegetables, fruits, soy and rice milk, and tuna and sardines. And I'm concerned a bit about the fish and soy products. I'm not in a position to grow my own, so what can you do?

    i have a similar diet and similar concerns (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by conchita on Sat May 05, 2007 at 11:19:18 AM EST
    this article from the guardian is a good look at soy - the history of its role in asian diets and how it has developed in the marketplace over the last decade or so.  i was trying to find an article about an ingredient in many soy milks which is bad for you, but alas cannot find the article in my archives nor can i remember what the offending ingredient is or what it does.  however, after reading it, i was concerned enough to check all of the soy milks available at whole foods and found that the one brand without it is edensoy.  edensoy also makes their soy milk from organic, non gm soy beans.

    tuna is a whole other story and while i eat less of it than i used to, i too am concerned and wonder with each can that i open how wise it is to be eating it.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks conchita. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat May 05, 2007 at 11:25:33 AM EST
    I've often wondered about too much soy and lately I'm having some kidney problems develop. I'll look into it a little more thoroughly.

    One concern I have with tuna is that my cat goes crazy over the stuff so I've cut back on it quite a bit, more for the cat than me. She's not anywhere near my age and I don't want to poison her. It's probably too late for me. ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    Fellow Pescetarian (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by HK on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:05:55 AM EST
    I too am what Wikipedia reliably informs me is called a pescetarian (don't ask me to pronounce it!)  I gave up eating meat only a couple of months ago, but never ate much of it anyway.  It was a combination of factors for me, but concerns over farming was one of the reasons why.

    I've just started growing my own fruit and veg and it is much easier than many people might think.  I am lucky to have shared allotment plot; I don't know if you have allotments in the US, but they are plots of land which you rent from the local council at very cheaply (about $50 pa) and came into existance about 200 years ago.  Legislation was passed to provide allotments to enable the poor to produce their own food so that the cost of poor relief could be reduced.  It was also hoped that allotments would encourage domseticity and keep workers out of the alehouse...

    But many fruit and veg can be grown in tubs, window boxes or even hanging baskets.  There are some varieties of tomato plant that can be grown without stakes and that are well suited to hanging baskets, over which the sides of which they drape themselves.  Herbs are easily grown on a kitchen window ledge.  Radishes, spring (salad) onions, lettice or strawberries could be grown in window boxes.  Tubs/planters make a good home for baby carrots, cucumbers, chillies, sweet peppers, peas, pak choi, and I'm sure much more that I haven't come across.  Just thought I'd share that in case it was of use to anyone.  It's surprisingly gratifying to grow your own food.

    Of course, there are many things that it's just not practical to produce yourself, but I think that growing a few things helps you to feel that bit mroe relaxed about the possible shortcomings of the origins of the rest of your diet.  I probably consume too much tuna and other mercury-saturated fish, but I don't think it helps to stress about everything.  I probably drink too much red wine and eat too much chocolate too, but I figure that some foods are good for your body and others are good for your soul :0)

    [ Parent ]

    HK (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 11:06:57 AM EST
    I think you are wrong on the meat eating, but good for you in starting to raise some of your own food.

    Now you need to start learning how to store your excess for later use.

    There are a variety of pressure cookers that are small and safe that can be used to can (in glass jars) almost all vegetables, fruits, juices and meat. Also availabel are small upright freezers at very low prices that can be used to freeze  enough veggies and meat to take a family of 4 through a winter.

    Since it is unlikely you will be able to grow all you need, you can visit your local Farmer's Market in season and purchase at very low prices. Some burbs in the US have "organic" farmer's markets that are cheaper than the "organic" stores, but still much higher that the regular markets. Your call.

    It is a lot of work but it is good healthy excercise that a family can do together. Time spent by a 10 year working a hoe instead of a game controller is quality time. Plus, you will be educating the next generation if all the bad things the Alarmists say actually happen.

    You also need to learn what plants you can plant on the garden that will help keep insects away, thus reducing the need for posions. Google on marigolds + insects and you will find a host of information. Some people claim these are mostly old wives tales but I think it makes sense.

    I also plant, for example, sunflowers for the birds, because they also eat insects, plus once a stand is started, they will come back year after year. I am protective of frogs and lizards because they eat insects, especially mosquitoes.

    I realize some of this might not work in a shared plot, but maybe your neighbors would agree...

    Good luck and good eating.


    [ Parent ]

    Cheers, Jim! (none / 0) (#24)
    by HK on Sun May 06, 2007 at 03:28:44 PM EST
    All useful info.  I will check out those plant combinations - I've also heard that planting garlic next to carrots helps keep away the white fly.  

    As far as storing produce goes, well, we're novices and if we produce enough for one salad this time around we'll be celebrating!  But I've already thought about looking getting another freezer.  We have a lot of fruit bushes - raspberry, loganberry, gooseberry, blackberry, redcurrant, blackcurrant and plenty of strawberries - so was intending on making jam and wine out of that produce (not in order of priority there).  I had also been told that if you dig up potatoes and then store them in a tin, separating each one with sand, and then bury it they will keep for many months.

    We have a fair bit of wildlife at the allotment; birds, frogs, insects and even the odd rat in the compost (not desirable, but a fact nonetheless).  My kids like the gardening, but even better they like finding mini beasts such as woodlice and worms and taking a good look at them before naming them and letting them go.  But global warming has a long way to go before we get lizards in my part of the world...

    [ Parent ]

    HK (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 03:45:57 PM EST
    I would guess that potatoes will keep like that, though I have never heard of it. The key issue, at least for this climate, is to keep them dry and as cool as possible... and to keep them spread so they don't touch.

    And thanks

    I'll have a pint of bitters, please. Loser pays the next round.

    [ Parent ]

    HK, I don't eat eggs or dairy products either (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Sun May 06, 2007 at 04:02:05 PM EST
    so from reading your link it looks like I am a lacto-ovo pesco/pollo neologizing partial vegetable. Somewhat leftwing, of course.

    Heh! Thanks, I need that.

    I hope it's not toxic. ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    No eggs? (none / 0) (#31)
    by HK on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:29:23 AM EST
    I couldn't give up eggs.  Absolutely love them and they are so versatile.  Eggs Benedict is my favourite meal.  I don't know if you have considered this, Edger, but eggs are the only food we eat that are designed and created to be food, although admittedly for the offspring of the animal that laid them and not for us.  I don't drink milk generally as I prefer soya milk, but cheese is another weakness of mine.  When it comes to food, I have a lot of weaknesses :0)

    [ Parent ]
    designed and created to be food? (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Edger on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:18:19 AM EST
    That's true for dairy too, no?

    [ Parent ]
    Now you say it... (none / 0) (#34)
    by HK on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:57:30 AM EST
    ...I guess so.  Feel kinda daft for not thinking of that myself.  

    Although from the humane treatment of animals perspective, a cow has to be separated from her young in order for us to get the milk she is still producing for it, which is not the case for eggs.

    [ Parent ]

    Ha ha. Heh. (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Mon May 07, 2007 at 01:47:15 PM EST
    I can't resist. ;-)

    Ummm... isn't eating them before they are born "separating" them from mom?

    [ Parent ]

    Touche! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by HK on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:39:46 PM EST
    Females have so much to deal with in life that parting with unfertilized eggs is not something they generally fret about...

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for the link, HK. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Edger on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:43:05 PM EST
    I knew that, but I just had to say it. It's interesting that the article also mentions that fertile eggs can be purchased and eaten as well. I've never seen an egg carton that is labelled which they are. ;-)

    I wonder what anti-abortionists who have eggs for breakfast think while they are eating them.

    ^^
    OO


    [ Parent ]

    edger (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:02:17 PM EST
    Break the egg and look at it.

    Then you will know.

    [ Parent ]

    edger (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:07:50 PM EST
    BTW - As far as I know, all eggs are fertile...unless you think the chickens are on birth control feed... Some are UNfertilized. Some are fertilized...

    [ Parent ]
    Reading chicken foetus entrails (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:43:48 PM EST
    is how you tell what people are thinking, Jim? Hmph. That might explain a few things. Does it work as well as revelations from invisible beings who live in the sky?

    [ Parent ]
    followign won't solve fri night chicken problem. (none / 0) (#8)
    by seabos84 on Sat May 05, 2007 at 10:42:03 AM EST
    I just need to prove 2 things:

    1. even though all I write is bombast, I do read stuff other than bombast.
    2. I can link to good stuff.

    noemie is a real good writer on washblog.

    rmm.

    http://www.washblog.com/story/2006/10/2/14041/6121

    "Walmart Inflicts its Unfair Market Practice on Organics
    By noemie maxwell
    Mon Oct 02, 2006 at 11:00:41 AM PST
    Section: Diary Topic: Labor issues

    We've seen it before.  A new industry that involves high risk is pioneered by small-scale entreprenuers and/or through public investment (taxes, subsidy programs, etc.)  When the risk is gone, then the huge corporations step in, push aside the small investors and the public interest, and reap the ongoing profits without a care for the welfare of small businesses and communities.

    A report released last week by The Cornucopia Institute, "


    seabos84 (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:03:05 PM EST
    Did you ever look at the history of Microsoft??

    [ Parent ]
    Two different things. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Guav on Sat May 05, 2007 at 10:47:21 AM EST
    "Organic" does not mean it's free to run around and not be penned in--that's "free range."

    Although they sometimes go hand in hand, they are two entirely different things. Free range animals aren't necessarily pesticide and antibiotic free, and organic animals aren't necessarily allowed free reign.

    You buy organic because it's healthier, and you buy free range because it's more humane. Obviously, both together is best for you and the animals.

    You can be almost certain that if your chickens are organic that they are not tainted by the Chinese melamine.

    I think there's some risk, but very little (none / 0) (#13)
    by roy on Sat May 05, 2007 at 12:50:44 PM EST
    Two pieces of information:

    1. Organic pet food can be made with concentrates of the sort which were contaminated, including "organic rice protein concentrate".

    2. None of the pet foods which have been recalled are organic.  

    I assume that organic chickens can be fed feed including organic pet food, which means it plausibly could be contaminated, but it wouldn't be among the pet foods known to be contaminated.

    I'd eat it.

    I say f*ck it..... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:59:22 AM EST
    It's not cool what's going down on the corporate farm...but if the alternative is the grain and soy diet, I'll take my chances.  To each his own of course, but I couldn't stand a diet like that.

    Off to fry some bacon...maybe its poison, maybe it ain't...but is sure tastes good, so f*ck it.

    kdog (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:34:13 AM EST
    Good point.

    People might also check out the increase in size of immigrant's children who are raised on an "american" diet as compared to their parents. Plentiful protein and carbs do count.

    [ Parent ]

    Organic Chicken (none / 0) (#33)
    by Peaches on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:37:17 AM EST
    I buy Organic as a last resort. I don't eat anything massed produced. I love meat. I also love dairy products and regularly drink raw milk (unpasteurized). All of this has been good for my health, (as far as I can tell).

    Its really pretty east. Either grow your own food ar build relationships with people who grow their own and a surplus. Know how they treat their animals and what they feed them. It takes a little time, but once you have build these relationships, you can get food at prices that are reasonable and you can learn a lot in the process.

    Certified Organic is a good thing and so is free range, but ambiguity in what exactly falls under these headings should cause you concern. Obviously, I will choose organic over nonorganic, if given the choice, but when you can buy all of your organic food from Walmart, you should realize that something isn't adding up. Who is doing the certification and writing the rules that determine what is what?

    You can spend a lot of time trying to determine what the hell "Certified Organic" and "Free Range" means, or you can take a drive into your surrounding rural communities and start talking to farmers and Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) coops and find out where exactly your food comes from. Its a nice drive, for one. And, you can learn a lot in the process.

    Grow a Garden and buy a share or two in some CSAs you trust. Then order some beef, eggs, Milk, Chickens, Turkeys, pork, and anything else that you like to eat from some farmers who you have determined feed and treat their animals with care.