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Todd: Economy Issue To Drive VP Choice | 199 comments (199 topical)
Isn't one of Obama's healthcare guys (5.00 / 3) (#45)
by nycstray on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 03:57:05 PM EST
one of the main opponents of the Clinton plan?

[ Parent ]
Jim Cooper ... (5.00 / 7) (#53)
by Inky on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:13:07 PM EST
It was one of the tip-offs early on, to anyone who was paying attention, that Obama was actually more conservative than Hillary, at least on economic/domestic matters. Here's what Mike Lux had to saty about Cooper back in Fbruary:

I was part of the Clinton White House team on the health care reform issue in 1993/94, and no Democrat did more to destroy our chances in that fight than Jim Cooper. We had laid down a marker very early that we thought universal coverage was the most essential element to getting a good package, saying we were to happy to negotiate over the details but that universality was our bottom line.

Cooper, a leader of conservative Dems on the health care issue, instead of working with us, came out early and said universality was unimportant, and came out with a bill that did almost nothing in terms of covering the uninsured. He quickly became the leading spokesman on the Dem side for the insurance industry position, and undercut us at every possible opportunity, basically ending any hopes we had for a unified Democratic Party position. I was never so delighted to see a Democrat lose as when he went down in the 1994 GOP tide.

Unfortunately, he came back, like a bad penny.

Link

[ Parent ]

early tip offs like that (5.00 / 2) (#197)
by dotcommodity on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 09:48:40 AM EST
abounded.

I was not at all surprised by the FISA vote.

Alito was a "constitutional scholar" (went to law school). The idea that studying the constitution is some indication of their "leftness" is not bourne out by the facts.

[ Parent ]

i have no idea... (none / 0) (#47)
by john b on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:01:50 PM EST
...but that's interesting if true.  i guess it shouldn't be surprising, Obama's plan differs in a few key ways from the original Clinton plan (universal coverage, role of insurance companies)

[ Parent ]
Elizabeth Edwards is also (5.00 / 5) (#61)
by pie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:23:45 PM EST
a lawyer and a "healthcare advocate," who happened to support Clinton's plan over Obama's.  

Let's say that John Edwards has been elected president, and Elizabeth is the one who will present a new healthcare plan to Congress.

Would that be "shameful" too, john b?

After all, she's not a doc either.

[ Parent ]

I don't know much about Mrs. Edwards... (1.00 / 2) (#63)
by john b on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:28:20 PM EST
...so hard to say.  But in general, I do not think unelected officials should ever be put in charge of behind-closed-doors decision making about legislation.  If Edwards made it clear before he was elected that he'd put her in charge, I guess that's slightly better.  Finally, Mrs. Edwards may have a background in healthcare.  Hillary didn't know enough when she spear-headed the plan.  

[ Parent ]
Good grief. (5.00 / 5) (#67)
by pie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:32:28 PM EST
Hillary didn't know enough when she spear-headed the plan.  

How do you know what she did or didn't know?

Wha she didn't know, I'll grant you, was how to get things done in DC.  

She knows now.

[ Parent ]

I know... (3.00 / 2) (#74)
by john b on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:37:30 PM EST
...because I read the plan.  It was terrible.  And I know because there are very few people alive who know enough about US healthcare to warrant nepotism by a president for the sake of being appointed to a healthcare commission.  I'm really not sure why ppl would defend this...it was a huge mistake on Bill's part, it weakened our democratic checks (albeit slightly and only temporarily), and it was one that allowed the Repubs to steamroll our best chance for healthcare reform.  Now every single reform plan starts by giving a nod to the insurance companies.  

[ Parent ]
This is Clinton's doing? (5.00 / 5) (#77)
by pie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:46:41 PM EST
Now every single reform plan starts by giving a nod to the insurance companies.  

Sorry, dude.  Corporate America has been sailing.

As for your opinion about healthcare, I'll have to get other opinions.  

You have a mild case of CDS.  Just don't OD on Obama.

[ Parent ]

Well. . . (5.00 / 7) (#87)
by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:10:55 PM EST
But in general, I do not think unelected officials should ever be put in charge of behind-closed-doors decision making about legislation.

There goes the cabinet, and 99.9999% of the executive branch.  Is the President allowed to hire someone to answer the phones?

[ Parent ]

And Elizabeth Edwards (5.00 / 1) (#167)
by BackFromOhio on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 09:47:40 PM EST
has been working on healthcare issues for John Podesta's think tank since shortly after her husband pulled out of the Dem primary race.

[ Parent ]
Administrative advisors... (1.00 / 2) (#91)
by john b on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:20:46 PM EST
...are different than a spouse.  You can't fire your wife.  And when someone appoints in incompetent cabinet member, the public and the press can and do ask for a change.  There isn't much we can do about a president who puts family members in charge, since they aren't there by virtue of their expertise, but of their relation to the president.  Again, not sure why people defend Bill's decision here.  It was stupid and it contributed to the failure of healthcare reform.  

[ Parent ]
So JKF (5.00 / 4) (#94)
by misspeach2008 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:29:33 PM EST
was out of line when he appointed his brother to be Attorney General?

[ Parent ]
RFK was confirmed by the Senate (1.00 / 0) (#153)
by MKS on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:43:58 PM EST


[ Parent ]
That's your comeback? (5.00 / 2) (#156)
by pie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:46:20 PM EST
Good lord.

[ Parent ]
Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#159)
by flashman on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 09:05:10 PM EST
Nepotism is bad, unless congress approves.  Then it's good.  But is the person in question is a woman, she should just bake cookies.

[ Parent ]
That might possibly. . . (5.00 / 10) (#100)
by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:33:45 PM EST
be an important difference if you had talked about spouses.  But you clearly said you didn't think unelected advisers should have any role in making decisions about legislation (by which I assume you mean matters of state).

That indicates to me that you don't really know too much about how government functions.

I know of no other person who disputes, then or now, Hillary Clinton's expertise on health care.  Many people share your apparent horror that she might force universal health care down the throats of our poor nation, but I've never heard anyone else suggest she didn't know exactly what she was talking about.

And as for causing the health care initiative to fail?  Until the Clinton attempt there was no health care initiative.  It was roundly attacked by reactionary forces who share your disdain for universal care (under the label "socialized medicine") and they -- the entrenched interests and right wing ideologues -- caused it to fail.

[ Parent ]

you are right, (none / 0) (#113)
by john b on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:52:27 PM EST
I should have been clearer.  I do not think that family members should be appointed to legislate where either an elected official or professional will do, since they play a much different role in the political life of the president than someone who is not a family member.  Maybe I should frame my statements by asking, "Do you think she was the best choice?"  I'm not sure why anyone would think that Hillary in '94 had the credentials to make the plan.  She knows a lot now, sure, but then?  She surely didn't know enough to know not to lock out the special interests  while creating the plan.  I never disputed that the Right defeated the plan.  I stated that Clinton made it easy for them to do so by making poor decisions.  I don't disdain universal care (who can argue w/ everyone getting care?), I am personally against Federalized Universal Insurance.  But that is besides the point - I was arguing over the political feasibility of her plan, not my value judgements of it. Finally, I wouldn't call HillaryCare, "socialized medicine", at least not in comparison to Medicare.  It was run-of-the-mill nationalization/healthcare legislation, nothing more.  

[ Parent ]
Several points: (5.00 / 6) (#150)
by Anne on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:40:13 PM EST
One - only legislators legislate; what the Task Force did was prepare legislation to submit to Congress.  Once presented, it was out of their hands.

Two - your constant use of the term "HillaryCare" makes you instantly recognizable, and not in a good way.

Three - for the last time, she was not a committee of one.  From Bill Clinton's announcment of the Task Force:

As a first step in responding to the demands of millions of Americans, today I am announcing the formation of the President's Task Force on National Health Care Reform. Although the issue is complex, the task force's mission is simple: to build on the work of the campaign and transition, to listen to all parties, and to prepare health care reform legislation that I will submit to Congress this spring.

The task force will be chaired by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and will include the Secretaries of Health and Human Services, Treasury, Defense, Veterans Affairs, Commerce, and Labor, as well as the director of the Office of Management and Budget and senior White House staff members.

I am grateful that Hillary has agreed to chair the task force -- and not only because it means she'll be sharing the heat. As many of you know, while I was Governor of Arkansas, Hillary chaired the Arkansas Education Standards Committee, which created public school accreditation standards that have since become a model for national reform. In 1984-85 Hillary served as my designee on the Southern Regional Task Force on Infant Mortality. She was the Chair of the Arkansas Rural Health Committee in 1979-80. And she has also served on the Board of the Arkansas Children's Hospital, where she helped establish Arkansas's first neo-natal unit.
I am certain that, in the coming months, the American people will learn -- as the people of Arkansas did -- just what a great First Lady they have.

Here in the White House, Hillary will work with my domestic policy advisor, Carol Rasco, my senior policy advisor, Ira Magaziner, and the head of my health care transition team, Judy Feder. I have asked all of them to be as inclusive as possible and, as part of that, we are inviting the American public to write us here at the White House with their suggestions. All suggestions should be sent to the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, The White House, Washington, D.C. 20510.

The emphasis is mine.


[ Parent ]

Thank you, Anne. n/t (5.00 / 3) (#154)
by tree on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:45:07 PM EST


[ Parent ]
this is a great post... (none / 0) (#179)
by john b on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:58:08 PM EST
...I'm glad someone quoted Clinton's press release.  It's a useful thing to read these now while we're debating.  Anyway, one: you're right, I should have been more careful with my words...Hillary didn't write the bill.  Two: HillaryCare is just the most convenient phrase.  Don't read into my usage of it.     Three: obviously, I didn't think she literally wrote the entire recommendation.  I was driving home the point that she was not welcoming to alternative opinions, and locked out the special interests that eventually sunk the plan.  I'm sure she had 1000 advisors...but that isn't the same thing as running a receptive, transparent committee.  

[ Parent ]
I get it! (5.00 / 1) (#101)
by pie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:34:01 PM EST
And when someone appoints in incompetent cabinet member, the public and the press can and do ask for a change.

You're a stand-down comedian!

[ Parent ]

John b please... (5.00 / 1) (#190)
by weltec2 on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:58:44 AM EST
You're in a hole. This is embarrassing.

[ Parent ]

Todd: Economy Issue To Drive VP Choice | 199 comments (199 topical)

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