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Sunday Late Night Open Thread | 187 comments (187 topical)

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Yes, sadly that is the real lesson -- (5.00 / 8) (#60)
by FemB4dem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:52:44 PM EST
No matter how qualified the woman candidate is, no matter how unqualified her male competitor is, no matter that she wins the most votes, the nominee selected by the party will be the man.

How is that not the lesson?

[ Parent ]

It's the lesson that the teenaged girls (5.00 / 5) (#66)
by samanthasmom on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:56:34 PM EST
in my life took away from the primary process.

[ Parent ]
My daughter in her 20s, too (5.00 / 6) (#124)
by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:38:43 AM EST
and, I fear, my son as well.

Luckily, he's a good guy.  But a lot of other guys got even more of an education in entrenched societal values against women in this campaign.  And some will see it as encouragement to emulate what they saw.

I've seen it all before in and after the Hill-Thomas hearings.  It can't affect my career anymore, but I hope it doesn't hurt my daughter -- in her career; she certainly is hurt about Clinton, for whom she voted.  

Won't it be interesting, though, when Obama girls hit their late 20s and early 30s and hit the glass ceiling?  Because, of course, they will.  And, actually, it just got a lot stronger, I think.

[ Parent ]

18 million cracks in it (5.00 / 5) (#134)
by echinopsia on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:57:56 AM EST
but I'm willing to bet Hillary gets no credit.

I was talking to a neighbor this afternoon and we discovered that we'd both been "the first woman" in our careers in the 70s - she in high-tech sales, me in high-tech support and service. And we both commented on how young women today have NO IDEA what it was like. We'd walk into an office - she with her briefcase, me with my toolcase - and people would come out of their offices to gawk at the woman presenting a product or the woman using a screwdriver. They'd be so bold as to demand the company send a man to do the job instead - with complete confidence that this was not an unreasonable or biased demand.

It was only 30 years ago.

Going by this primary, it might just as well have been yesterday. Young women are going to find themselves in the position of fighting to regain the ground they gave up by believing no one could take it away from them.

[ Parent ]

You're right, young women have no idea what (5.00 / 8) (#152)
by FemB4dem on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:38:04 AM EST
came before.  I tried one day to explain to a young lawyer, and Obama girl, about how she would constantly have to deal with "the line," you know, the line somewhere between Mother Theresa and Bella Abzug that women professionals are supposed to walk, but on which the markers keep moving.  She understood the concept -- in fact had just run into it with one partner telling her she wasn't assertive enough, and another telling her not to be so aggressive, but she looked at me with such a blank stare I realized fairly quickly she had no idea who Bella Abzug was.

Anyway, when I explained and then segued back to politics, she said (in her kool-aid induced state), "oh Obama will fix that."  I kid you not.  They are clueless.  She is one reason the Obamabot arguments that we older women "must" vote for Obama to save them from the republicans, have absolutely no sway with me.  

[ Parent ]

It's the lack of qualifications that gets me (5.00 / 11) (#78)
by davnee on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:04:47 AM EST
If Clinton had lost to a male Dem that was qualified to be president I wouldn't be so upset.  But she lost to a candidate who has nothing noteworthy on his resume.  Not a single major personal, professional, or political accomplishment.  And not even a full term of major public office under his belt.  Instead of picking a highly qualified and electable woman, the party insiders and media selected a male cipher instead.  That tells me all I need to know about the status of women in this country.

[ Parent ]
The lesson is that no matter how badly managed (none / 0) (#69)
by chrisblask on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:59:33 PM EST
a campaign you run, how badly financed, how badly strategized - being a woman doesn't stop someone from coming a close second any more than being a man.

But folks can pursue that victim meme and ignore the words of Sen. Clinton and Ms. Steinem all they want.  It's a free country.

[ Parent ]

She won the most votes, (5.00 / 6) (#94)
by FemB4dem on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:12:00 AM EST
she didn't come in second.  In fact, neither won on the pledged delegates.  Obama only "won" because the super delegates handed him the nomination.  That's hardly a close second.  In my book, that's a stolen election; stolen from the woman with the most votes, given to the man with fewer votes.  Yes, please do continue to tell me (and Al Gore) that we're just sore losers and victims, it so persuaded me in 2000, and it so persuades me now.

[ Parent ]
Knock it off (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by standingup on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:13:16 AM EST
Enough with the insinuations about the "victim meme."  

[ Parent ]
Oh thank you (5.00 / 1) (#176)
by Nadai on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:57:14 AM EST
I was waiting for a man to tell me what lesson I ought to take from the events I've been watching for the last year.  How very kind of you to take time out of your busy schedule to enlighten all the little ladies.

[ Parent ]
hit me again (4.42 / 7) (#100)
by sarahfdavis on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:15:27 AM EST
another black eye please. i know i brought it on myself.
and don't worry honey, i'll put make up over it so you don't have to be reminded of how i made you behave like a jerk.
i'm sorry i whined and asked to be treated fairly and decently.
i apologize for being angry that you didn't appreciate that i was smarter and more qualified by light years. how awful of me.
can i get you some coffee. do i look ok? no more pant suits ...i know how unsexy they are for you. and i do want to keep you pleased. sugar?

[ Parent ]

Sunday Late Night Open Thread | 187 comments (187 topical)

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