TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

Update on Whether Obama Will Offer to Help With Hillary's Campaign Debt | 210 comments (210 topical)

If Obama Were the Nominee (5.00 / 5) (#35)
by BDB on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:08:33 AM EST

he wouldn't be offering to pay Clinton to quit.

I honestly don't understand why his campaign seems absolutely desperate to get her to quit when supposedly they'll get that in three weeks.

[ Parent ]

WV and KY will look bad (5.00 / 3) (#40)
by andgarden on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:10:11 AM EST

plus disenfranchising FL and MI is messy and unDemocratic.

[ Parent ]

Exactly (4.75 / 4) (#60)
by BDB on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:19:54 AM EST

If he really had this thing wrapped up, he wouldn't need to take all these steps that will hurt him in November.

I still expect him to be the nominee, but it's very weird.

[ Parent ]

: i guess they want all the hard working (none / 0) (#206)
by hellothere on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:27:25 AM EST

democratic core to leave and take the clintons with us when we go. since we form the majority of the party, i'd say that should be quite interesting. the young and restless won't give them much. in fact they'll try and hit up on bitter boomer mom and dad for it. the aa community i am sure will want to but their resources are limited. so donna, dean, just where are you getting your moola for the new dem party? the latte drinkers? some but they'll get tired of hearing from you once obama has gone down in defeat and perish the thought that you might expect THEM to do hard work in a campaign. listen, good luck with that. when you get some humility, don't give us a call. we'll think about it depending on your attitude. (snark)

[ Parent ]

WV and KY (none / 0) (#221)
by stefystef on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:53:30 AM EST

and MO and PR will look bad for Obama too. After all this talk about Obama breaking into Hilary's base, it seems to be the total opposite. Obama has been losing the working class/white voter in each election. Hillary has actually vitalized that base.

I doubt if Obama , with a couple of flowery speeches, can unite that Hillary core, which is the Core of the Democratic Party, to vote for him.

[ Parent ]

They do seem a little panic (5.00 / 4) (#44)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:11:06 AM EST

stricken. It's funny to watch.

This from the winner?

[ Parent ]

He isn't offering... (none / 0) (#42)
by Addison on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:10:33 AM EST

...these are just stories floating around the media because it's a good, easily BS'd upon, factless story that fits in their little preconceived narrative. And I'm assuming you don't trust the media on this issue when you distrust them on so many others, right? Because that would be strange.

[ Parent ]

at Daily Obama (5.00 / 2) (#82)
by Josey on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:32:35 AM EST

there are Hillary-hate diaries on the Rec list based on an "anonymous source" of a friend of a friend who heard it somewhere that Hillary really did eat vanilla ice cream!! gasp!
She's a racist!!!
Addison, have you rec'd those diaries?

[ Parent ]

Here.... (none / 0) (#116)
by Addison on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:47:13 AM EST

...I made my diary rec's visible just for you.

http://www.dailykos.com/user/Addison/urec

Obviously there are many diaries there that are pro-Obama, and many that are anti-Clinton. But I think the one of the only clownish, non-factual Hillary hit-diary I rec'd was Melquiades' one. But I found that insightful because it pointed out how Obama's problems (Wright) could be dealt with decently for a time with a speech -- obviously it resurfaced later -- while Hillary's problem at the time (Bosnia sniper thing) couldn't. It was a good point about that juncture of the media ginned up idiocy-wars.

Additionally, 5 out my last 7 ratings (that's all I can see, since I almost only 0-rate comments anymore and it's only the last week or whatever of ratings) were to hide-rate comments insulting to Hillary Clinton.

Actually, you know, here's a diary about Hillary Clinton and race I rec'd. So, maybe you're on to something.

[ Parent ]

KOS? (5.00 / 1) (#126)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:06 AM EST

I thought all the Hillary supporters abandoned that sight weeks ago out of protest.

There are sites now growing by leaps and bounds because of the boycott.

[ Parent ]

I'm not a Hillary supporter... (none / 0) (#128)
by Addison on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:54:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Well, you said it. (5.00 / 1) (#136)
by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:58:50 AM EST

Obviously there are many diaries there that are pro-Obama, and many that are anti-Clinton.

[ Parent ]

I don't understand... (none / 0) (#141)
by Addison on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:01:52 AM EST

...many of the diaries I rec'd were pro-Obama, that is they were favorable to Obama. Some of them were anti-Clinton, in that they were critical of Clinton. Those are the sorts of diaries I have rec'd, apparently, obviously not the kinds of diaries y'all would rec, but also not the sorts of diaries that Josey was talking about.

[ Parent ]

: I am still stunned. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:10:45 AM EST

First like I said before I never partook of the Orange one. Don't like the format and never liked the attitude about politics. So, you keep saying as if there is a difference in being Pro-Obama and anti Hillary. Those are the same point of view, is that not right?

[ Parent ]

Right (4.00 / 1) (#63)
by BDB on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:22:08 AM EST

But why are they floating the stories? It clearly comes from the Obama campaign. These are the kinds of deals one would think would usually be struck by, you know, talking to the Clinton campaign, not the Huffington Post.

Again, I expect Obama to be the nominee. But this sudden pressure on Clinton to quit now instead of three weeks from now is not in Obama's best interest in the long run since he's going to need some of her supporters. It's all very, very weird.

[ Parent ]

Given (5.00 / 2) (#113)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:46:21 AM EST

that Obama has consistently outspent her 4 to 1 or 3 to 1 and still never managed to close the deal, I'd say you're reasoning is off-kilter.

[ Parent ]

The DNC elite (5.00 / 2) (#159)
by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:13:41 AM EST

backing, the netroots, the money, and no SD rush yet. All he can muster is psychological warfare.

[ Parent ]

Here's the insane (5.00 / 1) (#170)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:31:25 AM EST

part of this story.

You're still talking about him catching up to her.

Yet, saying she's done?

I'm sorry. I'm just too rational for that kind of nonsense.

[ Parent ]

No DNC (5.00 / 2) (#173)
by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:37:29 AM EST

Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry, Brazille...etc. Stop with the small donors clap trap...I don't buy that BS. Obama is the corporatist candidate, packaged to delude you faux liberals into giving up the last chance for healthcare, workers rights and sane foreign policy. He is here to protect the status quo and make the naive buy his progressivism. On one hand he is not progressive in the other he is so weak and inexperienced that nothing will happen. So, the corporations win and our democracy loses.

[ Parent ]

You are deluded (none / 0) (#202)
by Manuel on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:13:49 AM EST

There are as many DLC types associated with Obama as there are with Clinton. Policy wise there isn't much difference between then and Obama is the one who plans on kissing up to Republicans.

What are you doing, isn't Obama inevitable? Why are you spending time arguing with us when you you should be helping Barack figure out how to unite the party? Hey, wait a minute. Are you a McCain troll? That would be Rovian and brilliant.

[ Parent ]

: Long-time Dem (none / 0) (#208)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:36:35 AM EST

here, and this "Are you a Republican" talk is really just a form of denial.
You don't wish to consider the truth, that many people will exit from the Democratic party now.
I understand the urge to "guilt" people.
But it won't work.
It's a legitimate division, based on very legitimate philosophical issues.
Frankly, there are times in history where it's smarter to lose than to back a losing idea.
This is just such a time.

[ Parent ]

Inevitability wasn't ever (5.00 / 1) (#196)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:07:08 AM EST

her message. It was how the critics' message.

[ Parent ]

Hillary's campaign made strategic errors (5.00 / 1) (#199)
by Manuel on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:09:23 AM EST

in their planning for the caucus states and in not being prepared for relentless negative attacks from fellow democrats.

BTW The inevitability meme was entirely a media creation.

[ Parent ]

Right (5.00 / 2) (#121)
by Eleanor A on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:49:02 AM EST

Obama gets money from the likes of this lot hand over fist and Clinton gets criticized for trying to keep up?

That dog don't hunt.

[ Parent ]

: He is limiting contributions because (5.00 / 2) (#195)
by Manuel on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:06:06 AM EST

he hopes to opt out of his pledge to take public financing and limiting the contributions will make breaking that pledge look better.
Meanwhile contributions to the DNC have dried up. Can Obama bankroll them? There are a lot of mouths to feed.
Don't kid yourself, the party will be hurt financially if Clinton's supporters start limiting their contributions. This is a reason the party establishment is worried about the rift that has developed.
My take is that the amount of money raised and spent by both campaigns is obscene and could have been put to much better uses.

[ Parent ]

Deflecting his 3:1 burn rate to get 'her' voters (5.00 / 3) (#153)
by Ellie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:10:06 AM EST

That's what it was in PA after 6 wks to remain exactly where he started but I never saw any figures of what it was in Indiana.

Ex rectum: this is all about burn. I'd bet that the new projections of spending needed to get a votership she won't turn his way by folding or joining that floated Unity Ticket are sobering. It wouldn't hurt to get her impending donors thinking twice about supporting her continuing run.

Jeralyn or BTD no doubt have a better idea of what's going on.

[ Parent ]

: My opinion (none / 0) (#198)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:09:20 AM EST

is she needs just enough to pay off the debts, but nowhere what she needed before.
The rest of the primaries don't require a lot of money.
Maybe Oregon....
But W.VA and Kentucky? Just show up.
The big "Ad" war is over.

[ Parent ]
: My opinion (none / 0) (#200)
by AnninCA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:09:26 AM EST

is she needs just enough to pay off the debts, but nowhere what she needed before.
The rest of the primaries don't require a lot of money.
Maybe Oregon....
But W.VA and Kentucky? Just show up.
The big "Ad" war is over.

[ Parent ]

Do you have a source? (none / 0) (#188)
by Manuel on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:55:58 AM EST

A quote, a link, anything that shows that Hillary has asked for any money from Obama? As far as I can tell, this was started by chatter on the Obama side and leaked to the media.

[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0) (#232)
by notableabsence on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:28:43 PM EST

Hillary planned for the eventual nomination and rather than burn all her money in the primary she set an amount aside into a general election fund that, due to campaign finance laws, she can't touch. I don't think anyone expected the primary to carry on this long, so perhaps in retrospect she should've allocated less to the GE. Regardless, I don't think that you could call it poor budgeting on her campaign's part, planning to win and planning financially for that eventuality.

[ Parent ]

Wrong (none / 0) (#204)
by dishwithdi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:20:47 AM EST

Obama has out the checkbook and it's a lot more than $10 million. And it's buying silence not paying off campaign debts. The real nuclear option was never on the table. The Clintons refused to go there. But it will all probably come out. Those Republicans won't be so discreet. Watch. They will go after Michelle just the way they went after Hillary only Mrs. Obama won't be able to take it and Obama will dissolve when his myth and his Mrs. are destroyed. America is so Puritanical. It will be our undoing.

[ Parent ]