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Ed Kilgore For The Unity Ticket | 221 comments (221 topical)
I think (5.00 / 20) (#6)
by hlr on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:18:51 PM EST
all the men writing these Obama/Clinton unity ticket arguments fundamentally don't understand Hillary's base.

I'm with you.... (5.00 / 6) (#25)
by JavaCityPal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:26:53 PM EST
Clearly the media doesn't share the admiration a good share of the democratic party voters have.

They are continuing on this afternoon claiming Hillary is saying the whites won't vote for him. They are ignoring that it is a segment of the white demographic, not simply "whites" who won't vote for him. Not one word out there about how Obama believes the Clinton's cannot capture the AA vote back. If they can't, it's because they were painted as the enemy.


[ Parent ]

Yes (5.00 / 10) (#32)
by Emma on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:28:01 PM EST
I think you're right.  Asking the more qualified woman to take second fiddle while the less qualified man is promoted over her -- it sticks in the craw.

The question asked to every woman who's ever complained about the younger, less experienced, less qualified man promoted over her:  "Do you think you're entitled to a promotion?"

Don't underestimate how many women "of a certain age" have lived through this more than once.

[ Parent ]

If Hillary were to accept the VP (5.00 / 5) (#93)
by Boston Boomer on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:41:13 PM EST
under Obama, I would lose a lot of respect for her.  I would not vote for Obama even if Hillary is on the ticket as VP.  If Hillary were on the top of the ticket with Obama as VP, I'd vote for them, but with a heavy heart.  I'm afraid the ticket would not win with Obama weighing it down.


[ Parent ]
how do you think (none / 0) (#129)
by leftygogo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:48:49 PM EST
Hillary would win over Obama's supporters?

[ Parent ]
if she ironed his shirts (5.00 / 3) (#134)
by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:50:11 PM EST


[ Parent ]
I think Stella was making a joke (5.00 / 1) (#204)
by leftygogo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:08:29 PM EST
Everyone knows Hillary would curb stomp any man dumb enough to drop a load of wrinkled shirts on her desk.

[ Parent ]
Why are you so confrontationaL (none / 0) (#150)
by independent voter on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:53:53 PM EST
today? I am immune to you being a Clinton partisan, but the comments are truly coming across as spiteful this evening. You are better than this.

[ Parent ]
Maybe an astro-troll wore on her last nerve ... (4.20 / 5) (#210)
by Ellie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:11:36 PM EST
... or the sheer time-wasting factor of Team Obama's other transparently idiotic super genius strategies made her [grouchy, problematic, angry, bitter, clingy and say "I I I" instead of "we we we"].

Could be a bad period or a hot flash though.

[ Parent ]

so just so I am (none / 0) (#158)
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:56:04 PM EST
aware how was this NOT a sexist comment?

in fact you made a sexist comment while trying to attack Obama supporters as being sexist.

just wow.

[ Parent ]

I am confident (5.00 / 2) (#224)
by echinopsia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:48:38 PM EST
she will get his votes if she's the nominee. It's not clear he would get the votes she got if he were the nominee.

[ Parent ]
{raises hand} along with being told . . . (5.00 / 4) (#99)
by nycstray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:42:25 PM EST
I make a fine salary for a woman . . .

heh, we've come a long way baby . . . .

[ Parent ]

Wasn't LBJ more (5.00 / 1) (#102)
by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:43:54 PM EST
experienced than JFK?  Obama is getting "promoted" over her.  He has won the nomination  - or will.  At that time, asking her to be VP is not an insult.  It is a sign of respect for an strong campaigner.

[ Parent ]
JFK and LBJ were both men . . . (5.00 / 4) (#137)
by Palomino on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:50:43 PM EST
. . . so your analogy ignores the crucial aspect of sexism, that is, misogyny, that is, socially sanctioned, institutionally perpetuated, psychotic hatred of women, with all that this attitude implies.

[ Parent ]
There is a contest and (none / 0) (#207)
by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:09:17 PM EST
one candidate wins.  The 2nd place candidate is a damn good candidate with strong supporters.  Winning candidate should offer position to 2nd place candidate.  That could/should  happen no matter what gender the candidates were.

So if HRC was a man it would be OK for Obama to offer him the vp slot?  

TO me it is sexist to NOT OFFER her the slot.

[ Parent ]

LBJ (5.00 / 2) (#178)
by Emma on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:59:46 PM EST
also got 409 delegates on the first and only ballot at the Democratic Convention in 1960.  He wasn't competitive against Kennedy like Clinton is against Obama.  And he wasn't offered the VP until after he lost the race fair and square. Let me emphasize the fair and square part.

[ Parent ]
BTD opened the discussion (none / 0) (#193)
by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:04:40 PM EST
about the unity ticket.  Are you suggesting he is also against the "fair and square" argument?  

But let's just say it is an entirely hypothetical argument.  In that case if Obama gets the nomination, I think it would be wise to offer the nomination to HRC.  

[ Parent ]

Actually, yes, but (none / 0) (#160)
by JavaCityPal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:56:21 PM EST
as I remember it, LBJ resented JFK tremendously.

[ Parent ]
Yep, but he stepped up to the (5.00 / 2) (#176)
by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:59:27 PM EST
plate like an adult and did what the party needed. JFK wasn't a big fan of LBJs either, but he did what was necessary.  It's time for both sides to do the same now.

[ Parent ]
yeah, problem is that BO is no JFK. (5.00 / 4) (#191)
by kangeroo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:03:57 PM EST
not in a million years, not by a longshot.  wishful thinking won't make him so.  that's why the analogy doesn't fit.

[ Parent ]
Um. (none / 0) (#172)
by ChiTownDenny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:58:57 PM EST
Didn't JFK have significantly more national experience that BHO, sexism aside?

[ Parent ]
My point is NOT to compare (5.00 / 1) (#186)
by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:01:53 PM EST
Obama with JFK, but was to give one example of cases where the traditionallly experienced candidate was the VP.  And couldn't you make an argument that Al Gore was more experienced in Washington wasys then was Bill Clinton?  

[ Parent ]
OK. (5.00 / 2) (#206)
by ChiTownDenny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:09:03 PM EST
If the traditionally experienced candidate may have been the VP, what about the "no experience" candidate?  He should be the Pres?

[ Parent ]
This reminds me so much of Texas (5.00 / 3) (#192)
by DJ on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:03:59 PM EST
when Ann Richards who had done so much for us was kicked out for the good ole boy who did nothing for us.  Unqualified man over fantastically qualified woman.  Makes me mad, makes me sad.

[ Parent ]
This isn't a gender issue. (1.50 / 2) (#138)
by 1jpb on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:51:01 PM EST
Just as Wright needs to know that not everything is a race issue, many HRC supporters need to know that not everything is a gender issue.

For one thing, BO is a more successful legislator in DC on big issues that affect the entire country or world such as being the lead D on online gov spending accountability and expanding international arms control, or being one of the two lead Ds on the biggest ethics reform in 25 years.  And, BO has proven to be better at managing a campaign, which is the biggest management challenge that BO or HRC (or McCain) have ever taken on and lead.  And, BO is self made, HRC had a huge head start because she inherited the political apparatus of the most recent D president.

Secondly, even if you (unlike me) think that HRC is somehow more accomplished as a leader: it is undeniable that Dick was much more accomplished than George, and Dick wasn't made the VP because he's a woman.

[ Parent ]

No he's not (5.00 / 5) (#154)
by cmugirl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:54:43 PM EST
But you've said this, like 100 times today.

It's been shown over and over that your statement is not true, both on this blog and other places out there.

Please let it go,

[ Parent ]

Are you reading everything? (5.00 / 3) (#175)
by JavaCityPal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:59:23 PM EST
Very little of the posts in favor of Hillary address gender either explicitly or implicitly. She is simply the better candidate on all levels.

[ Parent ]
see Parent to my comment. n/t (none / 0) (#181)
by 1jpb on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:00:58 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Half of what you say is not true and the other (none / 0) (#198)
by Florida Resident on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:05:11 PM EST
half is your opinion.  They have similar voting records so how can he have a more solid record on things that matter?

[ Parent ]
Nope, they don't... (5.00 / 8) (#92)
by Rainsong on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:41:03 PM EST
many Obama supporters who've watched the Clinton campaign savage their champion for many months.

Nope, they dont understand Hillary's base. Some think Obama has been doing all the 'savaging'.

Indeed, some of them think the vanquishing of the Clintons from power in the Democratic Party is the whole point of the Obama "movement."

Yes, that sounds close to it...

The answer is simple, ....The easiest way, ....to heal these divisions is to unite their sources on a single ticket.

I've read this whole piece 4 times now, and I still read this cranky tone of how dare she?

Its been her fault all along, and now its cast as it will be her fault if it doesn't happen.

She has not wavered once at supporting Obama if he is the nominee, but he almost chokes at the idea in reverse, and if this piece is a strong example of how they might 'woo' back the voting base, then he has even more problems.

[ Parent ]

Sure (none / 0) (#35)
by squeaky on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:28:22 PM EST
And Pelosi gets it because she is a woman?

[ Parent ]
squeaky, (5.00 / 1) (#132)
by hlr on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:49:52 PM EST
I probably should have said white 'creative class' men with their nice technocrat solution of dangling the Hillary cheese off of the Obama mousetrap. The mice will come!

Nancy Pelosi just dislikes Hillary, that's all.

[ Parent ]

I Agree (5.00 / 1) (#165)
by squeaky on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:57:37 PM EST
That Pelosi has bad blood with the Clintons, and that was the source of her remark.  But I am all for a unity ticket and it makes no difference to me who is on top. It just seems like the math makes the ticket unbeatable against McCain.

Were Hillary perceived as the presumptive nominee how would you characterize those who supported a unity ticket? The same?

[ Parent ]

for many of her supporters (5.00 / 1) (#216)
by hlr on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:23:34 PM EST
Were Hillary perceived as the presumptive nominee how would you characterize those who supported a unity ticket? The same?

You know, there are issues w/ the Black male subservient to the White woman as well -- it's called plantation politics, Miss Anne, etc.

So, if such a unity ticket were suggested, and if some of his supporters were uncomfortable, then I'd have an issue w/ White surrogates pushing it as a picture-perfect solution to Democratic political woes.

 

[ Parent ]

Um...no. Class warfare. (none / 0) (#63)
by oldpro on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:36:50 PM EST
And envy.

Ugly.

[ Parent ]

Based on statements she has made, (none / 0) (#108)
by Boston Boomer on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:44:57 PM EST
I think Pelosi opposes a "unity" ticket because she believes that running a woman and a black man at the same time is a losing strategy.  


[ Parent ]
Mighty Generous Of You (5.00 / 2) (#147)
by squeaky on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:53:30 PM EST
To think that she is thinking about the party. I read her as an Obama supporter that did not want to see a Clinton sully his ticket.

But I will take your interpretation under consideration, even though I disagree with the math.

[ Parent ]

Ed Kilgore For The Unity Ticket | 221 comments (221 topical)

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