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I'm in shock.... (none / 0) (#7)
by kdog on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 02:49:55 PM EST
that we have undercover mercenaries out making black-market stuffed bird purchases.  Who knew?

Just how many undercover mercenaries and government informants are out there anyway?  Good lord.

kdog - the buying and selling of wildlife (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by scribe on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:07:13 PM EST
both alive and dead, and particularly for its parts used in "traditional medicines", is big, and illicit, business.

For, example, bear gall bladders are a huge item in the illicit wildlife trade.  The gall bladders and, for that matter, bear paws (a delicacy in some cultures) and claws (ornamental and medicinal uses) are sought after, bought and sold, to the detriment of the population of bears.

And, I'm not even talking about endangered species, here.  The trade in them (like, say, some species of parrots) is even more lucrative.

Short version - buying and selling any wildlife, alive or dead, without the requisite permits from the feds and relevant state governments, is likely (i.e., almost certainly) illegal.  

Killing game for sale - either in traditional medicine or for the table - is called "market hunting".  That's been outlawed for over 100 years.  The game one can buy in markets or restaurants is farm-raised.

Killing non-game animals and birds for any purpose - also illegal.  Under state laws, it's  a violation of the respective game codes.  Under federal laws, there's a lot of law on the topic, particularly as to migratory (i.e., crossing state or national boundaries) game and birds.  

Selling that which is legally or illegally killed just compounds the offense.

I suspect these pardonees were dealing in large quantities, were selling obviously-recently killed specimens, and/or were selling other stuff they shouldn't have been.  What they ultimately were convicted of - may have been much less than they originally did.

As to Bushie's pardoning them, I think it's just another example of his being a pr*ck, showing off and flouting common sense and decenct just to outrage decent people.

[ Parent ]

Great comment, thanks. (none / 0) (#12)
by Fabian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:16:10 PM EST
Wildlife is not just some resource to be harvested for a profit at any time, by anybody.

Every animal and plant is part of an ecosystem that supports us as well.

I come at it from the horticultural side, where illegally "harvested" native plants may be sold as "nursery grown" (slapped in a pot).  "Nursery propagated" means grown from cutting or seeds and is the ethical way to go.

[ Parent ]

Interesting scribe..... (none / 0) (#15)
by kdog on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:30:46 PM EST
needless to say I won't be wandering in the woods looking for dinner anytime soon....I might get locked up. I don't do permits:)

I'm not trying to defend these guys...anybody who would rather admire a bird stuffed on a mantle instead of flying through the sky or perched in a tree is a piker of the first order in my book.  I just don't know if it should be criminal.

And I got to thinking...how many narcs, undercovers, and informers are there at any given time?  More than a million?  That sh*t worries me...

[ Parent ]

I understand your point, kdog, but (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by scribe on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:48:38 PM EST
the wider point is that not everyone thinks the way you do.  Without the laws in place prohibiting market hunting and the like, there would be no wildlife for anyone to enjoy.  That state of affairs - no wildlife (or at least nowhere near the historically-known-to-exist-previously numbers of it) - was the genesis of fish and game laws, game wardens (of whatever name their respective state uses), and prohibitions on market hunting.  All that took place about 100 years ago, in no small extent courtesy of Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot, and the early conservationists.  

In the east, wild ducks and geese were almost wiped out by market hunting for NYC, especially.  Because they cross state and national boundary lines, the feds came into the picture.

People have written books on these topics but, in short, these laws are possibly one of the most easily justified criminal laws on the books.

[ Parent ]

I see yours as well.... (none / 0) (#17)
by kdog on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 04:00:39 PM EST
I'm very grateful for the work of the conservationists 100 years ago, especially the national parks system.  Alotta that land would be strip-mined and deforested and gone forever if not for their foresight.

I still can't wrap my head around why it's illegal for me to kill a duck or a goose and eat it though...that's gotta be a natural right, the right to eat.

It might boil down to me having more faith in mother nature than most...once she shakes us off like the bad case of fleas that we are she will heal herself from our damage.

[ Parent ]

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