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Justice Dept Releases John Yoo Torture Memo | 132 comments (132 topical)

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Does Academic Freedom cover 'Moral Turpitude' (none / 0) (#8)
by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:59:59 PM EST
This question is for jerry above, or anybody who may know the answer. (I think the answer is no, but can't be sure.)

[ Parent ]
Freedom is freedom (1.00 / 0) (#53)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:33:14 AM EST
His actions while employed by the government have not been shown to be improper, illegal and/or immoral. Your disagreement with him is just that. Your disagreement.

[ Parent ]
Yoo's justifications turned the Nuremberg trials (none / 0) (#65)
by kindness on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:11:59 AM EST
on their heads.  Essentially he says bringing harm to a prisoner is OK if the Executive branch says so.

Sorry but torture is immoral, it is illegal and just because some yahoo in the Department of Justice says it isn't doesn't change the law nor the US's treaty obligations.

Yoo, Addington, Darth & dubya should all be tried.

[ Parent ]

Define torture (none / 0) (#83)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:30:39 PM EST
As for him being a "yahoo."

He's there and you are commenting on an Internet blog.

[ Parent ]

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C > § 2340 (none / 0) (#108)
by SantaMonicaJoe on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:49:02 PM EST
§ 2340. Definitions
As used in this chapter--
(1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from--
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality....

Seems pretty clear to me.

[ Parent ]

Buddy....look in the mirror. (none / 0) (#120)
by kindness on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 10:41:04 AM EST
Where do you think you are?  I mean, if you want to call me a nobody because I'm here, feel free to.

I don't share your views.  I don't share your attitudes, and I certainly would prefer not to share your company.

But for what ever reason, you keep baying at the moon, right here with the other dirty hippies.

[ Parent ]

Uh... I'm not your buddy (none / 0) (#127)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 06:45:47 AM EST
and if you don't want to be called out on your actions, quit calling people names.

[ Parent ]
Freedom, i.e., (none / 0) (#66)
by jondee on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:21:54 AM EST
an army of lawyers and equivocating cowards to hide behind.

[ Parent ]
Many people ... don't seem to think so (none / 0) (#9)
by jerry on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:03:29 PM EST
There are links over at Brad's site, but many people I've read seem to think that Moral Turpitude is grounds for revoking tenure and academic appointments.

But what do I know, I barely know how to spell moral turpitude.

[ Parent ]

Yoo is at UC Berkley, of all places (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:20:11 PM EST
What is with the students who allow these thugs to be hired at any institution of higher education? Why do students even allow these unrepentant outlaws to even speak at their campuses?

All of these SOB's salaries, and lecture fees, are being paid for by the students' TUITION FEES and our TAX DOLLARS.

Couldn't that money be better spent on more edifying Professors and guest speakers who aren't refugees from the Bush Administration.

Yoo et al may have a right to make a buck, but not directly at our public expense.

[ Parent ]

I'd rather have him at Berkeley than (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by FlaDemFem on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:25:37 PM EST
the DOJ, at Berkeley he can be ignored. At the Justice Dept. he can't. Either way, it's tax dollars he gets paid with. Maybe he can go work at the Hoover Institute, with Condi.

[ Parent ]
Evidently, Yoo can't 'be ignored' at UCB (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:45:52 PM EST
He's currently in national, and international, news.

My point is that he shouldn't be working anyplace where he is being paid with public money (i.e. tuition fees, tax dollars).

If he is still working at UCB, if/when, he gets investigated/prosecuted, he can be granted leave and continue to get paid.

By all means send him back to the GOP private sector from whence he was spawned.

[ Parent ]

My concern (none / 0) (#39)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:44:48 AM EST
is that he may be infecting young impressionable minds.

[ Parent ]
Either way, it's tax dollars he gets paid with. (none / 0) (#81)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:28:09 PM EST
So there's no tuition??

[ Parent ]
Tuition at state universities is (none / 0) (#84)
by FlaDemFem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:34:36 PM EST
markedly lower than tuition at private schools. The reason for that is that the state funds its universities and so does the federal government. Therefore, most of the costs of a state university are borne by the taxpayers, both in-state and out.

[ Parent ]
Indeed (none / 0) (#118)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 10:26:13 AM EST
So I suppose you support the right of tax payers firing Left Wing professors such as Ward Churchill??

And I know of no schools that don't get some federal pork.

[ Parent ]

I live in Berkeley (none / 0) (#24)
by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:46:35 PM EST
It's not the old Berkeley or the Berkeley of mythology.  

[ Parent ]
A lot of (none / 0) (#43)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:54:10 AM EST
"liberals" have been suckered.  Washtenaw County (U of Michigan) was one of two(of 83)counties where Uncommitted won out over Clinton.

Clinton carried Ingham County (Michigan State).

[ Parent ]

No... (none / 0) (#10)
by Alec82 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:06:50 PM EST
...but a) it is almost certainly not moral turpitude and b) it is a bad idea because every time someone makes a move like that I get to hear right wingers advocating "ideological diversity" and blasting the "PC Stalinism" of "elitist" universities.

 

[ Parent ]

Alec82, you seem to have a unique grasp of this (none / 0) (#13)
by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:24:35 PM EST
a) Please define "moral turpitude"; b) Explain why Yoo's actions don't meet the definition.

[ Parent ]
I don't know ... (none / 0) (#15)
by Alec82 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:41:48 PM EST
...how that term applies to professors in academia, but at least in the law it generally refers to conduct offensive to morals, community standards, etc.  The typical examples are fraud, larceny, extortion, etc.

[ Parent ]
considering (none / 0) (#16)
by boredmpa on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:01:55 PM EST
the ACLU failed to protect a police officer who was fired for having a porn site (not in uniform fyi)  in san francisco of all places, i think this fairly well fits within current interpretation of the law.

and it's far more extreme than the above example...wherein a judge said SF had a right to be concerned about its image.

[ Parent ]

Yep (none / 0) (#51)
by Claw on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:21:54 AM EST
Alex82 gets it exactly right. The only times I've seen it come up, it's usually related criminal acts or extreme dishonesty.

[ Parent ]
No, (none / 0) (#50)
by Claw on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:16:31 AM EST
I don't think so.  You can hold some pretty crazy views without having to worry about "moral turpitude."  I'm assuming you're asking this with an eye to his ability to teach/retain his license.  
It's still amazingly sad to me that we've had to have a real national debate on how much we can torture, or that memos like Yoo's were ever seriously written.  


[ Parent ]

Justice Dept Releases John Yoo Torture Memo | 132 comments (132 topical)

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