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Howard Dean On FL And MI | 159 comments (159 topical)

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Dean hopes.... (5.00 / 4) (#9)
by Coral Gables on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:55:15 PM EST
Dean is pushing the buck down the calendar hoping for a Clinton or Obama drop out before the convention. Proactive he isn't.

The state Dem parties will be on their own. Michigan perhaps justifiably so, Florida through no fault of their own.

Seens DNC Is Pushing Only One Candidate (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by MO Blue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:02:52 PM EST
to drop out. Reference Brazile's frequent media attacks on Hillary and her statement.

 

  . . . "If these attacks are contrasts based on policy differences, there is no need to stop the race or halt the debate," Brazile said. "But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."


[ Parent ]
but who is she speaking for not the Party surely (none / 0) (#14)
by Salt on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:07:31 PM EST
and if she is thats a major problem for Dems.

[ Parent ]
What does she mean...stop the race (none / 0) (#33)
by MichaelGale on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:40:15 PM EST
Is she threatening us?

[ Parent ]
Yeah. Stop the race. . . (none / 0) (#42)
by hookfan on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:49:56 PM EST
I'm sure that would go over well for both sides. I think she suffers from some overblown grandiosity.

[ Parent ]
Brazille is not the only one (none / 0) (#112)
by Bob In Pacifica on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:39:57 PM EST
Obama is not going to lose the pledged delegates. Do the math, folks. That part is over. The Party does not want a fight at the convention where the black candidate has the nomination taken away from him by backroom deals. It would destroy the party.

Therefore, the only way that Clinton wins is to destroy the party.

Therefore, as we speak, superdelegates and party insiders are forming a line to announce their support for Obama. I heard one this afternoon this afternoon, and the narrative was "I support Obama, let's not destroy the party, Hillary." Party officials are talking to the usual money people to cut the flow to Hillary. For as many pity parties as Clinton supporters have had among themselves, the reality is that Hillary IS now the outsider, and will now be expected to be the good soldier and step down.

The DNC won't refuse FL and MI their revotes, but the state parties will have to come up with plans and come up with the money. The DNC hopes that it will all be over before FL and MI have their revotes, if they have them.

It's over, folks. Smile and wave at the cameras.

[ Parent ]

The "math" (5.00 / 2) (#121)
by hookfan on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 01:38:10 AM EST
tells me neither can win enough delegates to win the crown. The superdelegates must step up and decide.
Secondly, your "black candidate" can be substituted with "female candidate" and make just as much sense. It too would destroy the party. If money is being cut off to influence the election, dont you think there will be a huge backlash from Hillary's supporters? Talk about splitting the Party. the blade cuts both ways. "I support Hillary, let's not destroy the party Obama" is just as valid. Get a grip. . .

[ Parent ]
Neither can win (none / 0) (#129)
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:09:43 AM EST
but Obama is the leader in pledged delegates and will be the leader going into the convention. That's just the math.

True, neither can win without the superdelegates. But the truth is that if women want to abandon the Democratic Party because Hillary Clinton wasn't nominated where do they go? To John McCain and the Republicans? Then kiss reproductive and civil rights goodbye for your lifetime. Your choice.

If my theory is true you will hear superdelegates one by one announce for Obama between now and Pennsylvania while party leaders come out calling for some kind of conclusion before the convention. The last thing that the leaders want is one candidate to have the delegate lead and another to have the popular vote, so don't expect the DNC to go out of their way to help FL or MI, but do expect the onslaught of superdelegates before PA. In the last few days Walter Shorenstein (a big Democratic party money man) said the race needed a conclusion. So did Art Torres, head of the Democratic Party in California. Why didn't either man endorse Hillary? After all, Hillary won California. Because, in order for the race to end before the convention Hillary has to lose and concede. She cannot win the nomination without a convention fight. They are doing the best they can to avoid that. Sherrod Brown did the same thing on NPR this morning. He talked about bringing the race to a close but would not endorse Clinton, who had just won his state. What does that say to you?

It truly is a bad situation for the Party bigwigs. They don't want to see themselves snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Obama is the leader in winning pledged delegates in the primaries. Having the most delegates is how you win. The sooner it's over the longer everyone will have for their wounds to heal.

[ Parent ]

And the A-A community? (none / 0) (#161)
by hookfan on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 01:45:31 PM EST
The same argument could be made about them. Where are they going to go? To McCain and kiss goodbye civil rights and any fairness in prosecution and sentencing laws? Yeah right. Also, you lean heavily on the women being in your pocket no matter how fairly Hillary is or is not treated. You can continue your delusions about that if you wish. I believe 20% have said they will not support Obama now (of Hill's supporters). With what you are proposing that can only go up.Foolish gambit you are suggesting. finally, consider the old codgers. Obama is alienating them with his ageism and statements about social security being in trouble. We vote (I'm an old codger too). He might very well lose them to McCain as well. So you want to make some adjustments to the argument that what is good for the party is to dis Hillary.

Finally, pledged delegate count is only one measure to consider for who should be the candidate. Especially so since how pledged delegates are obtained is so silly and idiotic. Popular vote is another indicator, which is also largely hard to establish due to thevoter suppression that occurrs in caucus process (many caucuses don't even report actual votes-- they are estimates), as well as winning key states, and the final subjective of momentum. Focusing on only pledged delegates is idiotic if one believes in a truly representative Candidate. Besides what is pledged now can change in the process from the caucuses-- we don't know and won't know for some time what the actual delegate count will be.

[ Parent ]

Yeh, we all heard that the line of 50 (none / 0) (#113)
by Cream City on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:41:41 PM EST
s-d's was going to be rolled out by Obama today. Uh huh.

[ Parent ]
Now its a maybe for Thurs. (none / 0) (#114)
by oculus on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:46:59 PM EST


[ Parent ]
It won't be today (none / 0) (#130)
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:14:09 AM EST
It will be over the next seven weeks.

And it will be accompanied by party officials saying that they have to settle the race before the convention. That is nothing but couched language saying that Clinton has lost and needs to pull out.

Hillary supporters have claimed that Hillary was the underdog with the media. I don't think that that's necessarily true. As someone elsewhere wrote, all Dems are underdogs with the media, each getting skewered depending on how it best serves the Repubs and the oligarchy. But listen to the message from the Party.

[ Parent ]

I'll tell (none / 0) (#126)
by sas on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:07:47 AM EST
you what.

If pledged delegates take this away from Hillary, this woman is walking out of the party.  And I am not alone.

The Democratic party has long taken us for granted.

If they screw this up, they can go to hell.

[ Parent ]

Hillary (none / 0) (#131)
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:16:40 AM EST
can't win the pledged delegates. So where are you walking to? McCain? Nader? I would suggest joining your local Green Party and begin working for a viable local party. That's where I'm going when I give up on the Dems.

[ Parent ]
Spoken like a Repubican to Al Gore. (none / 0) (#137)
by Marguerite Quantaine on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:41:29 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Dean and (none / 0) (#125)
by sas on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:05:29 AM EST
Brazile and the others at the DNC are really beginning to aggravate me.

I have long been angry at their stupidity in the way this whole process has been handled - the Florida and Michigan denials of delegates, the lack of action and preparation for what we all knew was going to happen.  

This will be a divisive convention and there will be alot of unresolved anger if things are not handled fairly.

I'm ready to bolt this party - not to go to the Republicans - just to get out and register Independent.  

[ Parent ]

I'd suggest (none / 0) (#132)
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:18:26 AM EST
the Greens. Just being independent would make you pretty meaningless and put you outside of any party.

[ Parent ]
Chip.On. Shoulder (none / 0) (#57)
by plf1953 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:16:18 PM EST
Does this woman have a chip on her shoulder as big as Mount Rushmore (saw that posted here earlier today) or what?

Or is she just on a routine power trip?

Who does she think she is talking that way to candidates for the President of the United States?

I'm now definitely in favor of keeping Guantanamo open, if only with one bed available.

[ Parent ]

Remember, Donna Brazile (5.00 / 2) (#64)
by litigatormom on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:28:20 PM EST
was Al Gore's campaign manager.  Who got totally outgunned in Florida, on several different levels.  How did she get to be a senior DNC mucky-muck?

And suggesting that the DNC would STOP the race? What the frak is that about?

 

[ Parent ]

Brazile has pretty much (5.00 / 2) (#68)
by Kathy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:34:23 PM EST
already said she'd resign as a SP if Obama was not given the nomination.

Yet another reason for Clinton to win.

[ Parent ]

She talked about a convention walkout (5.00 / 3) (#83)
by Cream City on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:04:56 PM EST
according to a story I saw on some blog. All we need -- I remember such walkouts before. We lost the White House very time. Brazile is a fool.

[ Parent ]
Brazile (none / 0) (#133)
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:21:15 AM EST
is providing the public narrative that the Party leaders are afraid of but won't admit to. Don't be so hard on her. It's her job.

[ Parent ]
Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#63)
by Korha on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:25:42 PM EST
Dean needs to step it up, now.

[ Parent ]
Actually, (none / 0) (#134)
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:33:19 AM EST
Dean is doing exactly what the Party leaders want him to do. He's defusing the MI and FL problem. A problem that Clinton has exacerbated in her quest to snag more delegates at whatever cost.

Clinton has made no friends at the DNC with her midstream change of heart regarding the faux primaries.

Dean has said, sure, go ahead and have do-overs. Which state is going to come up with another 20 million dollars to run primaries? There is no way a state party can afford it, and in both states the Republicans will get fantastic mileage if the Dems try to get the state to pay for it--and they won't get the states to pay for do-overs. In short, the party leaders in both states agreed to move the primaries in violation of party rules, so if there's a revote it's done on their dime. This means that there won't be a revote. It's conceivable that caucuses could be run, but that's not going to satisfy the Clinton campaign. Clinton would be the favorite to win Florida (Michigan would be iffier with the full explanation of the NAFTA story) but her odds go down considerably with caucuses. Plus, the more important part of those elections is the popular vote. Clinton would at least have an argument for the nomination if she came into the convention losing the delegates but with a lead in the popular vote. I don't think the Party now wants to give her the opportunity for that.

While we can pretend to decipher personal preferences among the Party elite, I believe that if the race were reversed, if Clinton had the delegate lead, you would be hearing the same rhetoric and the behind-the-scenes pushing would be directed against Obama.

[ Parent ]

Howard Dean On FL And MI | 159 comments (159 topical)

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