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Univ. of Chicago Clarifies Obama's Professor Status | 97 comments (97 topical)

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Sorry for the double post. (none / 0) (#2)
by clapclappointpoint on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:28:08 PM EST
Just to clarify: I don't remember you making any accusations of Obama lying about this.  Thanks for posting this refutation of others' accusations.

[ Parent ]
Actually in comments somewhere (5.00 / 3) (#6)
by Jeralyn on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:34:55 PM EST
on a thread last week I did say lecturers in law are not professors. (I was one for 7 semesters.) However, U. of Chicago views "senior lecturers in law" differently than "lecturers in law" so yes, I said it and was wrong.

[ Parent ]
Every (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by tek on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:16:38 PM EST
law school views lecturers (whatever the level) as different from professors.  Professors--especially full-fledged professors--are people who do research and publish scholarly works in their fields.  A little more demanding than getting up and giving a lecture a few times a week.  Not that there isn't a place for lecturers and instructors who have otherwise important positions in law.  Their experience in practice gives a particular insight.  It's just a different status.  Bill Clinton was Constitutional law professor.

[ Parent ]
Faculty status essentially just gives (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:23:14 PM EST
non-professorial rank folks a voting status in schools.  Not that most come to faculty meetings or take on committees, where the grueling work is done to update curriculum, review applications for admission, awards, etc., and complete paperwork that goes to administrators who thus perpetuate and justify their existence by assigning the work to faculty in the wonderfully circular fashion of academe.

Occasionally, such voting status can mean that these marginal members may intervene -- and give up billable hours to come to meetings -- on behalf of the profession, when a professional school goes awry.  Not likely at U of C.

[ Parent ]

a little more demanding... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by workingclass artist on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:05:11 PM EST
I agree with you.It would have been more correct to make the distinction because there is a difference in pay, and academic load. I'm not that impressed as visiting lecturers, senior lecturers are not required to continue research or publishing as well as teach a rigorous load. The Obama equinalent in my academic field is the Visiting Artist, which as students we called the Art Stars, as these were people who either taught a class or had studio critiques usually for one semester. They attracted enrollment,and funding. At Obama's level of Senior Lecturer, in my field the equivalent would be the Artist In Residence, which usually included more duties and the research/publishing equivalent of a year end exhibition. At least in my field a visiting or resident artist wouldn't think of calling themselves a professor on a CV, unless they were a professor at another school and visiting on sabbatical. The school has come to his defense, but their standard is kinda unique. Wonder if Obama got sabbaticals, and other tenure goodies? It's a quibble of an argument, but then again that's what academics specialize in.

[ Parent ]
So I was an 'Art Star', eh? (none / 0) (#64)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:26:55 PM EST
Much more fun than Visiting Artist ;) I was asked to teach 1 class, 1 semester which evolved to more classes/semesters. I always just considered myself an instructor and honestly didn't remember what we were called until I read your comment.

Maybe I should update my info, lol!~ ;)

[ Parent ]

I always kind of liked my "Instructor on (none / 0) (#72)
by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:59:59 PM EST
Piano" title, but "professor" has a bunch more cache.  

[ Parent ]
Nope, not much of a cache (none / 0) (#90)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 04:33:14 PM EST
by retirement, i.e., not much cash.  But yep, you bet it's good for cachet. :-)

Seriously, I'm cracking up at the mental picture that comes from seeing "Instructor on Piano."  I'm picturing one of those '40s female lounge singers draped across a piano, flashing her gams a la Garbo.

[ Parent ]

Good thing I was never hired to teach (5.00 / 0) (#94)
by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 04:41:12 PM EST
French.

[ Parent ]
I love "Instructor on Piano."! :) (none / 0) (#121)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:48:01 PM EST


[ Parent ]
As long as you were called (none / 0) (#89)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 04:31:07 PM EST
back, that's what counts.:-)  You must have had good student evals and have been a good colleague, if parttime.  Not a pain-in-the-neck like some I know who complain that they teach as much as some faculty  . . . and entirely ignore that teaching is usually considered less than half (40 percent, often) of a fulltime faculty job, with all else that they do.

Re good student evals, they won't buy a cup of coffee, not even at knockoffs of Starbucks.  But they make it all worthwhile, Art Star!

[ Parent ]

Yeah, I was happy to be called back :) (5.00 / 0) (#123)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:06:11 PM EST
It was a smaller dept at the time. I actually helped map out some of the program requirements when I was a student there and the first Grad from it. After I moved to NYC, I would run into some of my students here and was lucky enough to hire a couple.

I'm usually pretty easy to get along with in colleague situations. And I enjoy teaching. and Starbucks wasn't 'born' yet! lol!~ The pat on the back was good enough for me :)

[ Parent ]

No. An instructor is not an Art Star. An (none / 0) (#111)
by derridog on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:50:02 PM EST
instructor is generally an adjunct or part timer but could be a one year appointment.  In research universities, "famous"  people working in a particular field professionally are often brought in to teach under conditions that would make an adjunct think he or she died and went to heaven. It would also have that effect on the average professor, who usually does fourteen times the work for a fraction of the money.   I used to teach at a major research university and we brought in several "art stars."  Sometimes they'd just come for a semester and sometimes a year. We had an illustrator for several years who was quite well known and he flew in a couple of days a week from NYC and taught his classes and went home. Never lifted a finger otherwise and made a huge salary.

[ Parent ]
I was originally called in for (none / 0) (#122)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:56:19 PM EST
just a one semester deal (after a couple guest lectures). Ended up staying on growing to 4-5 classes and interns in my commercial studio. I never really thought much about my position, it was more about the teaching for me, and the fact I could take free  sculpture classes! :)

I seem to remember having one of those teachers that flew in when I was a student (oh, so long ago!) Now I have to go google him, lol!~

[ Parent ]

What law schools are you talking about? (none / 0) (#110)
by geordie on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:49:29 PM EST
Because all of the law schools I'm familiar with don't actually employ people who "lecture" - that's not the way we're generally supposed to teach in law school.  I doubt you can speak for EVERY law school in America - you certainly are not accurately describing the 20 or so American law schools with which I am familiar.

Again, this is a stupid ground on which to attack Obama - and I am not a fan of the man, I just can't stand Republican-lite tactics.  And this is one.

[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0) (#112)
by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:52:33 PM EST
Well said, I feel the same way.

[ Parent ]
In my experience (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by fladem on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:28:21 PM EST
at BU Law School "Senior Lecturers" were sitting judges who taught one or two classes.  

It was absolutely a term of respect and not to be confused with lecturers (who are quite distinct from Professors).

The bottom line is Obama's legal credentials (EIC Harvard Law Review, Senior Lecturer U of Chi) are about as good as you get.  The only thing missing is a CA or a Surpreme Court clerkship.  

[ Parent ]

That small "p" is meaningful though. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:31:37 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Rank of Professor (none / 0) (#48)
by PennProgressive on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:47:54 PM EST
It is a minor point perhaps but now I am confused.I am still not  clear about his rank. Was he at par  with a (non-tenured) assistant or associate or a full professor? Just confused---and nothing more than that.

[ Parent ]
No. (5.00 / 2) (#55)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:05:02 PM EST
Lecturers, usually parttime but sometimes fulltime, really are a separate group from faculty on the tenure-track -- instructors and assistant professors, both of which do not have tenure, and then associate professors and full professors, both of which have tenure (if a school is following national guidelines; professional schools in law, medicine, journalism, business, etc., have mileage that may vary . . . in part to get more money, as professionals who are lecturers often also become good donors:-).

Students usually just call 'em all "professor," as it's easier than actually finding out how to follow the proper etiquette and address them as Dr., Ms. or Mrs., Mr., etc.  (After all, we don't address others by their job titles, i.e., "Plumber Smith, could you tell me. . . .")  And some profs, of course, even with Ph.D.'s, prefer to not be addressed as Dr., or it's not the custom on some campuses (usually those that say it's because all of their teachers have doctorates, so there).

[ Parent ]

In the UC system, Adjunct Professor (none / 0) (#95)
by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 04:42:59 PM EST
refers to those not on the tenure track.

[ Parent ]
It's not an absolute (none / 0) (#76)
by geordie on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 03:12:53 PM EST
I AM a Professor, in the technical sense of that word (full Professor, etc), but at my institution, writing instructors who are contract employees are also called "professor" by the students, and have voting rights on faculty matters.  They are members of the faculty, though not full professors, just like a lot of other people who teach here.  This whole thing strikes me as a pretty silly basis for attacking Obama.

[ Parent ]
ANOTHER LIE (none / 0) (#117)
by scorbs on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:31:08 PM EST
I'm sorry -- Obama was a lecturer not a professor.  PERIOD.  I've heard HIS supporters like Roland Martin on CNN call him Professor Obama or Dr. Obama.

He does not have a PhD. in Law.  PERIOD.  Get it?  To be a professor or a doctor you need to have a PhD.

Once again, this is called spinning -- believe my words not our lying eyes.

[ Parent ]

J.D. (none / 0) (#118)
by Imelda Blahnik2 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:41:39 PM EST
Juris Doctor. Doctor of Laws. It's the "typical" law degree nowadays.

But nobody calls lawyers doctors. Oh geez, I've just confused myself.

[ Parent ]

This is completely wrong (none / 0) (#127)
by geordie on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:51:31 AM EST
Anybody with a JD is eligible to become a professor of law - period.  There is no "PhD in law" - there is an LLM, in specialty areas like tax or labor, which is the equivalent of a masters degree, and there is a JsD, which is the equivalent of a doctorate, but I don't actually know any law professor who has a JSD and it's not necessary in the least to an academic career.  I am a law professor, I've been in academics for years, and you're just completely dead wrong in what you're saying.

Obama is completely qualified to be a tenure track academic - way more qualified than lots of people I know currently teaching, in fact.  Again, I'm not an Obama supporter, but this is just ridiculous, to be part of the Rove echo chamber on this.

[ Parent ]

Agree; Ph.D. not needed in professions (none / 0) (#129)
by Cream City on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:35:21 AM EST
and their professional schools.  Of course, there are some amazing faculty in law schools with the J.D. and the Ph.D., just as there are some in medical schools with the M.D. and the Ph.D., etc.

That actually may be why, per some here, it seems more common in law schools to call all teachers "professor" -- since they can't be called "Dr.," more common in other parts of campuses (and more correct in terms of etiquette, as I noted elsewhere, as we don't address others by job titles, i.e., "Plumber Smith" or "Carpenter Jones").

And yes, Obama is more than qualified to be hired on the tenure track -- i.e., without tenure -- but as a lawyer, you also no doubt recognize that part of the problem here is the U of C statement in terms of labor law.  Campuses have to advertise such openings to be open to all, have to follow steps delineated by the feds throughout the hiring process to ensure that all applicants have a fair shot, etc., or they can get in a lot of trouble with the DoJ, which would seem unwise for a law school, huh?  

So the U of C statement is messy and muddling this, but that doesn't mean the problem is owing to Obama's resume.  

[ Parent ]

Univ. of Chicago Clarifies Obama's Professor Status | 97 comments (97 topical)

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