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Open Thread | 223 comments (223 topical)
yeah, a high placed campaign officail (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by NJDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:09:17 PM EST
would say that and then post it on mydd.  Are people that stupid?  I think not.  

Remember when there was that article in the NYT about low campaign moral and then they refused to publish a letter by the HRC camp flatly denying it.  Sheesh Louise.  

More Wright fodder--today in an interview BO said he didn't know about the incendiary remarks made by Wright.  So which is it?  I can't even follow the double-speak at this point...  

Obama (none / 0) (#22)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:18:54 PM EST
knew of and heard "controversial" sermons but not the 3 sermons on 9/11, G-D America and Hillary.   As an example, Obama has said that he heard Wright talk about adultery in a crude way....No doubt, Obama heard some of the sermons that wandered off into discussions of white oppression....

So, when Wright occasionally was close to the edge Obama was there, and the 3 times Wright fell off the cliff he was not there....

Three sermons have fueled the entire controversy....And, from what we know now, those three sermons were not typical at all....  

[ Parent ]

Could he have been talking about (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:23:50 PM EST
the Clinton smear when he says he heard Wright talk about adultery in a crude way?

I have a hard time believing he only fell off the cliff 3 times (I've seen more than 3). Especially since he had no problem with including those sermons on a DVD for sale to the public.

[ Parent ]

I think we need to be (none / 0) (#59)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:34:38 PM EST
specific....Right now everyone assumes Wright was all G-D America all the time...

There are three sermons so far:  9/11 tin foil hat sermon, G-D America sermon, and the anti Hillary sermon, which is very recent.....

There was a fourth sermon on June (perhaps July) 22, 2007 that Hannity was going to showcase via Newsmax, to show that Obama was lying that he was not present during really, really bad sermons.   Newsmax had published an article last July making the accusation.  But Obama was giving a speech in Florida that day--on tape.  Ooops.  Retraction.....Bill Kristol had to amend his NY Times editorial....

The wingers have been looking for more bad stuff and sermons and proof Obama was there...They have been going through the tapes for at least two weeks now.....Only 3 of the really bad ones so far....

If it is only 3, and the rest of the "controversial" tapes are just race grievance sort of stuff, this issue will die down.

[ Parent ]

not sure where you are getting your info (none / 0) (#65)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:37:24 PM EST
but there are hundreds of hours, not only of video but of audio, and if you think you have heard it all.
well
you havent.


[ Parent ]
I've seen 2 different 9/11 ones. Can't decide (none / 0) (#88)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:45:25 PM EST
which was more offensive. You don't seem to have seen the Bill Clinton smear, and a few others. Fox has shown about 6 videos I believe.

The Right has been on this for at least a year, iirc. I think this is just the tip of it.

You do know that Wright was uninvited to Obama's running for President event right? For a good reason . . . Alexrod said something along the lines of 'they didn't want to expose him to the voters'. OY!

[ Parent ]

So, uninviting him (none / 0) (#100)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:51:03 PM EST
was a good thing, right?  

[ Parent ]
probably (none / 0) (#107)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:53:05 PM EST
it might also have been a good idea to develop a strategy for this this bites him on the ass.
which he clearly did not do.

[ Parent ]
But it means that -- well , what did Obama (none / 0) (#132)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:03:18 PM EST
really mean that he didn't realize until recently that being in Wright's church would be an issue?

[ Parent ]
Depends on how you look at it (none / 0) (#140)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:06:48 PM EST
It says they definitely knew he was a problem. Not good if this 'problem' would have reared it's head in the GE.

Imo, he should have been more upfront. Hiding the issue really goes against what he says he/his presidency would be. I would have liked to see him do something more pro-active about it during the last 20yrs. He's supposed to be a leader who can unite. I call it a missed golden opportunity.

[ Parent ]

Best predictor of future behavior (none / 0) (#74)
by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:41:00 PM EST
is past behavior

If you catch someone doing something once, it is natural to assume that it was not the first (or the last) time...

The 3-times seems to be total bull...especially considering that the congregation was into what he was saying...otherwise you'd have probably heard crickets...

good ministers know their flock, they stick around because they preach what their congregation likes to hear, so it is very hard to believe that Wright just wandered off a few times

[ Parent ]

well (1.00 / 1) (#99)
by Kathy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:50:16 PM EST
John Wayne Gacey only killed a handful of times.

Are we to judge those isolated incidents as indicative of how he lived his entire life?

And then he had that photo with Rosalyn Carter!

[ Parent ]

You really (none / 0) (#103)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:51:52 PM EST
think that analogy is apt?

[ Parent ]
The analogy (none / 0) (#241)
by Kathy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:24:23 PM EST
is apt because it proves how ridiculous the original statement is.

Would have us believe that Wright is some sort of split personality who one day screams "G D America," then humps his podium another to humiliate a former first lady and current US senator, then posits that AIDS was created to kill black people (I suppose the gay people were guinea pigs?) then at another time screeches about the "U-S of KKK-A" ...yet, because on other days he talked about helping the poor and the homeless, those inflammatory statements are somehow negated?

Lookit, you could say the same thing about David Duke.  He supported a charity to help single mothers and homeless vets at some point.  Does that make him a good guy?

[ Parent ]

Absolutely (none / 0) (#121)
by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:58:20 PM EST
after murder #1 you can reasonably start digging into his past and say "are there other things we don't know about" and if it is found that he has done it before, it is not reasonable to be surprised by it

So absolutely conclusions can be drawn...

with that said, of course there are always exceptions, but the exceptions don't make for good controls

[ Parent ]

And 33 (none / 0) (#129)
by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:01:10 PM EST
is hardly a handful...

but it was suspicion about one murder that lead to the evidence of the others...so the analogy is completely apt

[ Parent ]

Murder = Wright sermon? (none / 0) (#159)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:12:10 PM EST
You are saying Wright is guilty of murder?

[ Parent ]
You do have to wonder (none / 0) (#150)
by Practically Lactating on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:10:18 PM EST
about someone that humps the pulpit no matter how isolated the incident. That gyrating and dirty riding left me reaching for the holy water and I am about as blaspheming as they come.

[ Parent ]
that is also the one (none / 0) (#160)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:12:32 PM EST
that most offended my religious relatives.
and there is a LOT of that sort of stuff.
I have seen at least a half dozen just as bad.

[ Parent ]
This is a must-read! (none / 0) (#93)
by echinopsia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:47:54 PM EST
The Obama Bargain

by Shelby Steele

Bargaining is a mask that blacks can wear in the American mainstream, one that enables them to put whites at their ease. This mask diffuses the anxiety that goes along with being white in a multiracial society. Bargainers make the subliminal promise to whites not to shame them with America's history of racism, on the condition that they will not hold the bargainer's race against him. And whites love this bargain -- and feel affection for the bargainer -- because it gives them racial innocence in a society where whites live under constant threat of being stigmatized as racist. So the bargainer presents himself as an opportunity for whites to experience racial innocence.

This is how Mr. Obama has turned his blackness into his great political advantage, and also into a kind of personal charisma. Bargainers are conduits of white innocence, and they are as popular as the need for white innocence is strong. Mr. Obama's extraordinary dash to the forefront of American politics is less a measure of the man than of the hunger in white America for racial innocence.

More at the link...

[ Parent ]

Shelby Steele (none / 0) (#116)
by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:56:28 PM EST
has some interesting analysis. CNN used to have him on until they decided to back Obama.  Steele was on Dobbs yesterday and is supposed to be back on as Dobbs wants to continue 'the' conversation.

[ Parent ]
I saw that yesterday -- it was fascinating stuff (none / 0) (#135)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:05:00 PM EST
so thanks for the reminder to watch when he's back.

[ Parent ]
I have a hard time believing he was selling them (none / 0) (#95)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:48:27 PM EST
to the public if they were not the norm.

I don't know too many people who willing sell  'mistakes' online. Especially in relationship to their livelihood  ;)

[ Parent ]

All were sold (none / 0) (#155)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:11:07 PM EST
is what I heard....The good, the bad, the ugly....

[ Parent ]
I still don't get why. (none / 0) (#186)
by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:26:07 PM EST
He makes his money off his work, etc. I don't think he thinks there is anything wrong with what he said. If he did, there wouldn't be repeat incidents and he certainly wouldn't be selling a message he didn't think was right. Imo anyway :)

[ Parent ]
And what was on Obama's tapes (none / 0) (#139)
by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:06:32 PM EST
from Wright that Obama took with him to Harvard?  I haven't seen anything more about those tapes -- of other sermons, I presume -- noted in Obama's book.

[ Parent ]
Presumably talks (none / 0) (#149)
by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:10:15 PM EST
about Christ....

There are a lot of Wright sermons.....Only a few offend....

[ Parent ]

Here's an interesting (none / 0) (#144)
by Warren Terrer on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:07:59 PM EST
take on the whole Wright affair from Orcinus.

His point is that the media completely ignores the anti-Americanism of conservative minister and power broker Sung Myung Moon.

[ Parent ]

Yes (none / 0) (#233)
by tek on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:57:29 PM EST
but Americans know about that guy and it certainly influenced our opinion of Bush.  Really, I don't find it particularly effective to say we should ignore Wright because the MSM didn't cover some other egregious preacher.  The media is not fair, but Obama still showed bad judgement and the worst part of it is that this is apparently how he really views white people.

[ Parent ]

Open Thread | 223 comments (223 topical)

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