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5th Anniversary of Iraq War Decision: Who Will Get Us Out? | 176 comments (176 topical)

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Soldiers with guns on their soil... (none / 0) (#5)
by kdog on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:48:14 PM EST
is occupation.  What would you call it?

[ Parent ]
We have boots on the ground in Germany (none / 0) (#17)
by kredwyn on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:56:15 PM EST
and England...are we occupying those countries as well?

Occupation is a whole lot more than simply a "boots on the ground" criteria. The playing around in the political, social, and economic process is relevant as well.

We are doing all of those in Iraq under the Bush admin. My understanding is that any of the Democratic plans would differ.

[ Parent ]

Yes we are.... (none / 0) (#20)
by kdog on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:57:59 PM EST
occupying England, Germany, and 100 or so other countries.  Some countries just like being occupied...Iraq doesn't judging by the blood spilled.

[ Parent ]
I lived in Ireland... (none / 0) (#24)
by kredwyn on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:04:06 PM EST
and worked for the Irish Parliament. I can assure you that America is not occupying neither England not the United Kingdom. Microsoft maybe...in parts of Dublin.

But politically, they are operating on their own...dealing with their own issues.

We aren't "occupying" them.

[ Parent ]

Although landing troop transport (none / 0) (#91)
by oculus on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:16:00 PM EST
planes in Shannon did raise a huge flap.

[ Parent ]
Yup... (none / 0) (#159)
by kredwyn on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:40:49 PM EST
for the first time in ages. We've been landing troops in Shannon for quite a long time.

The father of a friend of mine used to talk about how the ship stopped off around NIreland for various things. They couldn't stop by the Republic because Ireland had declared itself neutral for WWII.

[ Parent ]

Poltically.... (none / 0) (#115)
by kdog on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:43:48 PM EST
they govern themselves.  Technically, so does Iraq.  

Granted, our troops aren't hated in Europe like they are in the Middle East.  Europe was afraid of the USSR more than the USA and they figured "hey, free security!".  

But I don't think we should be have a military presence anywhere but on or within our borders...I think we can't afford it anymore and it fosters hatred and conflict in one way or another.

I guess that makes me an isolationist militarily.

[ Parent ]

Prolly... (none / 0) (#158)
by kredwyn on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:37:48 PM EST
this:
I guess that makes me an isolationist militarily.
describes it.

Efforts like this, indicates that there're two sides to that particular knife.

[ Parent ]

Chalmers Johnson (none / 0) (#136)
by facta non verba on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:15:58 PM EST
has written the definitive works on US militarism. The Blowback Trilogy.

I am not sure the current statistics precisely but the US has over 730 bases in over 130 countries. We have bases in Paraguay, Ecuador, Iceland, Portugal, Palau, Japan, South Korea, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Romania, Greece, Kenya, Tanzania, Spain, Germany, Norway, Honduras, Haiti, Kuwait, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Turkemstan, Afghanistan, Australia, Nauru, the Solomon Islands, Grenada.  

[ Parent ]

I cannot think of a modern war (none / 0) (#39)
by Kathy on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:29:39 PM EST
where America left when it was over.

[ Parent ]
I don't think that there is one... (none / 0) (#45)
by kredwyn on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:36:18 PM EST


[ Parent ]
vietnam (5.00 / 1) (#73)
by english teacher on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:58:02 PM EST
or as dana carvey impersonating ghwb said, "some people say we didn't learn the lesson of vietnam.  i say we did:  stay the hell out of vietnam".

[ Parent ]
Have 4,000 American troops (none / 0) (#101)
by JoeA on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:24:24 PM EST
been killed in England, Germany, South Korea,  in the last 5 years?

There is just no comparison,  once wars in Germany South Korea and Japan etc finished there was no insurgency or continued war.  In Iraq there is.  If there is a continued presence on the ground in Iraq then the war will not be over and the bodybags will keep coming home.  You might as well have McBush in the White House,  at least he is honest about his intentions.

[ Parent ]

I think you just clarified part of my point... (none / 0) (#157)
by kredwyn on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:31:55 PM EST
which is that there is a lot more to occupation than kdog's definition that occupation is defined by "boots on the ground."

It's not just the presence...it's what's going on with regards to that presence.

[ Parent ]

Of course that is a part of it. (none / 0) (#167)
by JoeA on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 08:03:20 AM EST
However, any meaningful armed presence in Iraq long term will be viewed as an occupation (rightly in my view), and will lead to continued long term violence.   Parallels cannot be drawn with Japan/Germany/South Korea.  At least not unless you are McCain who argues that the coalition can remain in Iraq for 100/1000 years and people won't mind.

[ Parent ]
I think that the South Korean protestors (none / 0) (#169)
by kredwyn on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 09:52:05 AM EST
from a few years back would disagree with you about that.

I suspect that in the immediate aftermath of each situation, those countries (and rightly so) considered themselves to be occupied territory. For example, my aunt has several pieces of china/pottery ware that bear the Made in" label "Occupied Japan." This designated a period of time in the aftermath of WWII where there was an Allied occupation force inside Japan.

[ Parent ]

5th Anniversary of Iraq War Decision: Who Will Get Us Out? | 176 comments (176 topical)

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