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The Florida Revote Plan | 267 comments (267 topical)
Rarely fair? (none / 0) (#174)
by digdugboy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:53:22 AM EST
I disagree. It's rarely nice, and sometimes very dirty. But as far as fair goes, if people follow the rules that everybody agrees upon then the process itself is fair.

McCain
[ Parent ]
Rules & Process (none / 0) (#203)
by corn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:05:04 PM EST
When the process puts an innocent man to death, the process is flawed (Herrera).  When voters' votes don't count, the process is flawed.  Rules and process shouldn't be placed above fairness.

[ Parent ]
Different issues (none / 0) (#214)
by digdugboy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:11:52 PM EST
An innocent man who is executed didn't agree, beforehand, to a process whereby he could be executed for a crime he did not commit.

A candidate, on the other hand, who agrees to abide DNC rules about the process of primaries and caucuses cannot hardly complain that those rules aren't fair, later. So far as the voters themselves are concerned, no, it's not fair to them, but there are competing national interests involved that cannot be ignored, either. One obvious solution for the disenfranchised voters is to replace their state democratic leadership.

McCain
[ Parent ]

The voters concerns are paramount. (none / 0) (#235)
by corn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:25:21 PM EST
And they didn't agree to the rules either.  The DNC's needs don't compare.

Everyone knows the DNC screwed up.  They should walk this back.

[ Parent ]

It's also about the voters (none / 0) (#240)
by digdugboy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:28:01 PM EST
in every other state. In a representational democracy, the voters agreed to the rules via their elected representatives. They may not be happy with the choices their elected representatives made. But that is the fiction of consent upon which our system of government rests. There's no reason to disavow that fiction in this case only.

McCain
[ Parent ]
That makes no sense. (none / 0) (#249)
by corn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:34:50 PM EST
I get your point about the 'fiction of consent' but when we follow a trail down to a point where rational minds realize we're doing something unfair, you walk it back.  You can make all your same arguments about Herrera, but in the end an innocent man was killed.  That makes no sense.

Your argument is opportunistic.  An objective observer would no doubt agree to make the votes count.

[ Parent ]

what is fair about (none / 0) (#222)
by SarahinCA on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:18:45 PM EST
the disproportional representation of small states in the nominating process?

[ Parent ]
That is why I wouldn't even (none / 0) (#242)
by inclusiveheart on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:28:22 PM EST
call another primary in MI and FL a "re-vote" - while they each state held an election - opening polling stations and handing out ballots etc. - neither election met the criteria of the rules originally set forth by all of the states - therefore they didn't really do anything but hold glorified straw polls.

Seems to me that if either candidate perceives new elections that are conducted within the rules as they were set up in 2006 as "unfair", then they really aren't talking about rules at all.

Writing off FL and MI as it stands now makes no sense.  I think the only choice we have is to hold elections in whatever fashion that meet the criteria set forth by the bylaws.  It is not like either camaign is hurting for money or that they have spent money of any significant amount in either state - why not run real contests now?  Both will benefit in November if they do and both will suffer in November if they don't.  It is a worthwhile investment imo.

[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0) (#247)
by digdugboy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:30:11 PM EST
Thanks for your comment.

McCain
[ Parent ]

The Florida Revote Plan | 267 comments (267 topical)

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