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Pelosi's Daughter: Popular Vote Winner Not Important, Pledged Delegates Are | 133 comments (133 topical)

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People come to vote (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:37:24 PM EST
in caucuses. Granted many less people, but hey, that is why they are undemocratic, that and the apportionment process.

But there are actual votes cast in caucuses too.

But if you arguing that primaries are much more legitimate democratic processes, no argument from me. I HATE caucuses. Hated them LONG BEFORE the Iowa results.

[ Parent ]

One is more DEMOCRATIC (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:42:17 PM EST
That was the word I used.

You switched it to legitimate.

It so happens I believe the more DEMOCRATIC system is the more legitimate one, but hey, that's just me.

[ Parent ]

and me (none / 0) (#31)
by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:44:00 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Undemocratic means (none / 0) (#57)
by solon on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:09:05 PM EST
So it would be fine to employ undemocratic means to justify democratic ends to get a desired result?

Doesn't the undemocratic nature taint the democratic nature or is that not important?


[ Parent ]

Caucuses (none / 0) (#138)
by mouth of the south on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:40:43 PM EST
You can argue until you tongue falls out and it won't change the fact that we have ALREADY had caucuses.  We can't go back and change that.  And Clinton blew them off as you are doing and look what that got her!  Stop arguing about the value of the caucuses.  It is done!

[ Parent ]
How about adding combined total delegates (5.00 / 2) (#59)
by Practically Lactating on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:10:31 PM EST
in these two types of events? Is this fatally flawed and a losing argument too?

So your position is that it's legitimate to combine the total number of delegates that were obtained from two different "animals" but not to do the same with votes?  Is there a particular reason for this seemingly arbitrary distinction?

[ Parent ]

Major Problem (none / 0) (#122)
by solon on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:12:58 PM EST
One of the major problems with this process is not the primary/ caucus distinction, it is that states have delegates regardless of the turnout.

There are virtues within the caucuses system, especially for citizen participation and public debate. Voting itself does not lead to greater civic action within the United States. In fact, voting seems to be the lowest form of citizen involvement since it asks very little of voters and seems to perpetuate s system of rule by elites and citizen apathy.

There may be a solution for the primary/ caucus problem in terms of awarding delegate:

States should be allowed to determine their own means for selecting a nominee. However, delegates should be based on voter turnout rather than states having a selected amount before hand. This would mean that states should not have bonus delegates for wining the states but only award based on proportion to those that voted.

Of course, there needs to be some form of balancing between large and small states as the importance of the vote should not be based on geography. If you decided that delegates should be awarded based on actual turnout, then the smaller states should vote first. You may need to try and arrange a system on both population (fewer people within a state) and region (to cut out travel costs). This way larger states still may have the final say but small states begin the conversation.  Proportional representation should still be the norm for the states.

[ Parent ]

Pelosi's Daughter: Popular Vote Winner Not Important, Pledged Delegates Are | 133 comments (133 topical)

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