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I did not say executive privilege derives from the (none / 0) (#27)
by scribe on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 06:04:59 PM EST
Rules of Evidence, as that would be historically inaccurate.

Washington was the first to put forth some variation on Executive Privilege, re Congress' request for some information or the other on a treaty (I think the Jay Treaty, but I could be wrong).  The Rules of Evidence didn't come along until the late 60s, IIRC.

Rather, my meaning was that the Executive privilege applies like every other evidentiary privilege, and those are applied through the 500 series in the Rules of Evidence.  I.e., the party seeking the protection of the privilege must raise it, then the court decides whether it applies and, if so, how far.

What Cheney v. US District Court said was, that the Preznit does not, in the first instance and in the context of a civil suit's discovery phase, have to lead off in the District Court by invoking the executive privilege (which may have constitutional roots - but who cares whence it came, as all privileges save the Fifth Amendment are "derived from use and experience" or some similar language in the Rules).  Rather, the Executive branch may seek to limit discovery in the civil suit by "other means".  [In Cheney, Deadeye was considered an adviser to part of the Executive Branch because the Preznit had created this committee comprised of Executive branch officials and asked Deadeye to head it and give him advice.  That energy company executives joined in, no one wanted to touch.] The "other means" would include seeking mandamus in the Court of Appeals to redo or overturn a discovery order issued by the District Court.  The use of mandamus circumvents the ordinary rule barring interlocutory appeals (which one over a discovery dispute clearly would be).

I'm not sure what "holding" I suggested that you think is wrong, but the fact of the matter is:  (1) Deadeye never invoked executive privilege.
(2) I am not aware of any case in which executive privilege has been explicitly held to apply to protect one who is (a) not the President, (b) not a direct, close adviser to the President, or (c) the Vice President.
(3)  Given the known propensities of Deadeye, if he or his lawyers had thought he, as Vice President, had a colorable claim to executive privilege, he would have raised it, regardless and independent of his position as head of a committee advising the Preznit.  Similarly, if they felt his position heading that committee was sufficiently a direct, close adviser to the President, they would have raised it.
Given 1, 2, and 3, I conclude:
(4) Deadeye and his lawyers concluded they had no argument for extending executive privilege to him (as VP or as committee head), or it was so weak they'd look foolish while failing to win it.  So they didn't touch it and, in so doing, got a whole new avenue (mandamus) to block disclosure.

[ Parent ]

Scribe" (none / 0) (#28)
by Deconstructionist on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 06:22:37 PM EST
"The so-called Executive Privilege, such as it is, extends only to the President.  It operates as an aspect of the law of evidentiary privileges (Federal Rules of Evidence 500 series"

  YOU wrote that-- it's above a few posts if you forgot. the Rules of Evidence were only recently (relatively) codified by they have existed for hundreds of years and the EVIDENTIARY privileges derive from the common law of Britain and the USA. constitutional privileges, unsurprisingly, derive from the constitution.

  Your reasning is utterly absurd. Cheney WON THE CASE! He did not need to get a ruling on whether EP applied to him and none was made. I cannot believe that someone who claims to be a lawyer can't grasp that the failure to make a positive ruling on an issue does not establish the negative of that issue. Your inane babbling about we all know Cheney would is just meaningless blather.

 to top it off you also write:

"2) I am not aware of any case in which executive privilege has been explicitly held to apply to protect one who is (a) not the President, (b) not a direct, close adviser to the President, or (c) the Vice President."

  Which is true but would seem to be completely inconsistent with your initial pronouncement that EP extends only to the President period.

  you are BSing so hard you have confused yourself. Why not simply admit you went off the deep end and waaaaaaay overstated things in your first post in exactly the fashion I suggested.

[ Parent ]

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