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I have no idea if BooMan (none / 0) (#7)
by Maryb2004 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:58:06 AM EST
is blinded by Clinton hate.  Maybe he's perfectly clear headed but frustrated.  

But in making a decision about who will be the party's nominee it seems completely reasonable to me to take into account the fact that some candidates are going to be subjected to certain types of smears - not just that ALL candidates will be subjected to smears.  Smears are part of life in politics as you say.  But you should certainly evaluate the smear-effect on your candidate if you are able to; and we're able to do that with Clinton to a better degree than any other candidate.

With Clinton you have to take into account that there are going to be over-the-top smears and you have to take into account that she's got a long history of dealing with them and will presumably be tough in response. And you have to take into account that this will go on throughout her presidencey if she wins.  And you have to take into account that it's all happened before and factor in smear-fatigue.  You have to ask yourself do I want to go through THAT again. You have to ask what she brings to the table to balance out any special negatives you perceive that she has with respect to smears because of the history she has.

You don't have that with Edwards or Obama - we haven't gone through it with either of them before.  And, if I may expand your point, no one should be deluded into thinking that there isn't a smear factor for each of them just because it's easier to see with Clinton.

And how does each candidate balance out his or her smear factor - BooMan is saying, I think, with the trust factor.   A factor that's hard to weigh.  

That's where Clinton has a problem. I take your point that all politicians are untrustworthy if we base our trust on their discussion of the issues during a campaign.  But Clinton had a pre-existing problem on the trust issue that didn't come out of the campaign and her responses and that's the perception that she and Bill triangulate on everything.  Fair?  I don't know, but it's there, it's an issue.  It isn't going to go away.  She hasn't figured out a way yet to make it go away.  Maybe she can't.

BooMan isn't saying anything that Obama didn't say in coded speech in Iowa when he said that we didn't need triangulation.   Obama's whole campaign is a "trust me" campaign.  Now he's in the "trust me, don't trust her" phase of the campaign.  It might work.  On the other hand we've never seen Obama up against a smear campaign and he doesn't have a lot of history to back up his "trust me" factor.  

BooMan is saying the trust factor for Hillary isn't enough for him and shouldn't be for anyone.  He didn't say it as nicely as Obama.  So what?

[ Parent ]

If I follow you (none / 0) (#10)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:04:05 PM EST
you are saying that the fact that Hillary has been through it and has already been hit with the kitchen sink - hence her polling on "trustworthiness" - is a PLUS. Not a minus as Booman says.

Maybe. I could see an argument that the others could protect themselves better.

My point is that we are ignoring the problem - the Media - when we decide to criticize Clinton on this.

[ Parent ]

I thought she was saying she doesn't want (none / 0) (#11)
by oculus on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:10:29 PM EST
to hear the same-oh, same-oh stuff about Clinton; so let's nominate Obama or Edwards so we get to hear something new.    

[ Parent ]
I said both (none / 0) (#13)
by Maryb2004 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:22:06 PM EST
I should run for office.


[ Parent ]
Triangulator! (none / 0) (#14)
by oculus on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:25:13 PM EST


[ Parent ]
But (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Maryb2004 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:30:59 PM EST
if I hadn't pointed it out both of you might have gone on thinking I said what you each wanted to hear and my trustworthy factor might not have been diminished.  

[ Parent ]
What part of the media (none / 0) (#12)
by Maryb2004 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:20:03 PM EST
am I ignoring?   When I say smear I mean from the media.  Nobody cares if you or BooMan smear a candidate.  


[ Parent ]
ok, I'll give you this (none / 0) (#17)
by Maryb2004 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:04:05 PM EST
The Hillary story isn't being driven right now, and won't be driven for the next 6 weeks, by the reality of Hillary's stand or lack of stand on the issues.  It will be driven by the story that the media wants to tell.  And ultimately if there is a downturn in her trust factor from her perceived lack of stance on the issues, it won't be because she has less of a stand than the other candidates it will be because the media has decided to make her perceived lack of stand on the issues the story.  

BooMan wants to point to RFK.  Well, you can't discount the media story that went along with him.

He is, though, a good example of a politician that took a characteristic that had previously been portrayed as a character flaw (ruthless Bobby) and turned it into a positive for the media to sell (determined, strong, etc.).  

It remains to be seen if Hillary can do the same thing with her flaws.  

[ Parent ]

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