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Actually, (none / 0) (#14)
by Gabriel Malor on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 12:27:14 PM EST
Bill, my work this semester includes editing and preparing for publication a book about Nuremberg and Justice Jackson. I've been working on it since August. (Incidentally, that's why I've been quoting from Jackson so much--he's on my mind!)

There are few "striking similarities" between the Bush Administration and the Nazis, but kudos to you for discovering such a rare and insightful analogy.

The outrage with which portions of the rest of the world now view us doesn't seem to have hurt our economy or diplomatic efforts. Anecdotal, I know, but for what it's worth, I lived and worked in London (Little Arabia, no less) and didn't have any trouble at all.

Finally, your insistence that persons have no right to appeal is explicitly denied by the MCA 2006. (I'm assuming that you're referring to military detainees since you referenced habeas.)

Section 950c requires automatic appeal to the Court of Military Commission Review of any commission decision which results in a finding of guilty.

Section 950e then gives convicted detainees the right to appeal to the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia.

[ Parent ]

I said nothing particular to Nazis... (none / 0) (#18)
by Bill Arnett on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 01:41:23 PM EST
...and there ARE striking similarities. Two quick ones:

Japan claimed they "preemptively" attacked America under the false believe that we were preparing to attack them. The court held that such "wars of aggression" contain both all the elements of the crime and that actually attacking the US clearly proved the crime.

Second, and I don't remember if it was a Japanese or German troop, a sentence of 15-years of incarceration was meted out for "waterboarding" American soldiers, and that act was deemed a war crime and crime against humanity.

And you really don't see any STRIKING similarities there? I'm not being flippant; I'm genuinely amazed that anyone cannot see that these war crimes have been repeated by America under bush.

[ Parent ]

Different cases. (none / 0) (#19)
by Gabriel Malor on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 04:24:34 PM EST
Pre-emption alone has never been considered a punishable act. The phrase "wars of agression" came up at Nuremberg in the definition of Count Two against the Nazis, that is "crimes against peace."

A crime against peace was defined as "the planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing..."

Unfortunately, no definition of "war of aggression" has ever been adopted (of especial relevance to our conversation, the UN and the ICC are still fighting over definitions to use). In lieu of a definition of "war of aggression" most states have conducted themselves in accordance with the second definition of crime against peace, "a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances."

Neither the Afghanistan War nor the Iraq War disturbs this second definition. Given that, it's going to be very difficult to convict anyone in the Bush Administration for a crime against peace.

Regarding waterboarding during World War II, that case is distinguishable for three reasons. First, Asano (the fellow in question) was convicted of beating and clubbing prisoners, "water torture", burning with cigarettes, and (oddly enough) strapping prisoners head down on a stretcher. Second, Asano's victims were Prisoners of War. Third, Asano stole from supplies intended for the POWs (this crime was itself a crime against the laws of war).

It is therefore inaccurate to say that 15 years were meted out for waterboarding. Rather, a man accused of numerous crimes including "water torture" was given 15 years hard labor and confinement.

[ Parent ]

Not a War of Agression? (none / 0) (#20)
by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 05:40:53 PM EST
How is our invasion of Iraq not specifically a war of aggression, under any definition?

In order to come up with a definition where it isn't, then you have certainly defined the term into irrelevance!

[ Parent ]

Not a war of agression (none / 0) (#21)
by Gabriel Malor on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 06:39:07 PM EST
Well, for starters, a state of war already existed between Iraq and the US at the start of what we've been referring to as "the Iraq War."

[ Parent ]
Facts (none / 0) (#22)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 06:55:11 PM EST
Damnit Gabe, will you please quit spoiling the party with facts??

[ Parent ]

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